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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 05 Feb 2014 (Wednesday) 15:30
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What is Gr Mode?

 
Roxie2401
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Feb 05, 2014 15:30 |  #1

I have a 7D and a 5D3. I keep seeing comments about using Gr mode on the 7D for the 600EX-RT, the Yongnuo YN-E3-RT, etc. But, searching the threads, I can't find exactly what "Gr Mode" is and why I need it on the 7D.

Simple question. Thanks very much.




  
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rc ­ mike
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Feb 05, 2014 16:13 |  #2

Group Mode


5D mark iii W/Grip, 60D W/Grip
50f1.2L, 85f1.8, 17-40 f4L, 24-105 f4L, 70-200 f2.8L, 300 f4L
3 600 ex-rt flashes, st-e3-rt

  
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rc ­ mike
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Feb 05, 2014 16:14 |  #3

You can have different groups to control areas with your speedlites


5D mark iii W/Grip, 60D W/Grip
50f1.2L, 85f1.8, 17-40 f4L, 24-105 f4L, 70-200 f2.8L, 300 f4L
3 600 ex-rt flashes, st-e3-rt

  
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agv8or
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Feb 05, 2014 16:19 |  #4

It is the new Groups mode introduced with Canons Wireless RT system. It allows up to 5 groups of slaves to be individually configured in either Ettl, Manual or Ext. A modes. You can also select to turn an individual Group of slaves Off. It was only available for use on the 5D mIII and 1Dx and newer DSLRs but the YN-E3-RT has made it backwards compatible for use with older DSLRs such as the 5D mII or 7D.


Rand

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Roxie2401
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Feb 05, 2014 16:48 |  #5

agv8or wrote in post #16666280 (external link)
It is the new Groups mode introduced with Canons Wireless RT system. It allows up to 5 groups of slaves to be individually configured in either Ettl, Manual or Ext. A modes. You can also select to turn an individual Group of slaves Off. It was only available for use on the 5D mIII and 1Dx and newer DSLRs but the YN-E3-RT has made it backwards compatible for use with older DSLRs such as the 5D mII or 7D.


At first I guess what has confused me it the difference between "Channels" and "Groups." I know my 580EX II / ST-E2 had up to four "Channels" as well as three groups, A, B, C. And are there groups/channels in the new RT system and what is unique about the 7D?

IF the older flash units had Groups, can you explain what you mean by "new Groups mode introduced with the Canon Wireless RT system?" What is different about these new groups vs. the older ones?




  
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inkista
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Feb 05, 2014 21:09 |  #6

Roxie2401 wrote in post #16666352 (external link)
At first I guess what has confused me it the difference between "Channels" and "Groups."

Channels is the communication "wavelength", so you don't confuse your lights with someone else's lights. Like at the Olympics, when everybody is trying to set their lights off remotely, some folks were paying for custom PocketWizard channels so nobody else could accidentally trip their lights/shutters.

Groups is a way to subdivide the lights so you can control different groups of lights differently within the same set up.

And are there groups/channels in the new RT system and what is unique about the 7D?

The new RT system allows for five groups instead of three (A:B:C: D:E vs. A:B:C). And with the addition of ID codes, the RT system supports 150,000 "channels" [15 radio channels x 10,000 ID codes; so less problem at the Olympics, then :)].

And the 7D is not unique, and is not fully compatible with the RT system on its own. The RT features of things like Gr mode, groups D&E, and ID codes, if you only use Canon gear, is only supported by camera bodies released in and after 2012. The 7D is not one of those.

IF the older flash units had Groups,

They do. But they don't have Groups mode.

....can you explain what you mean by "new Groups mode introduced with the Canon Wireless RT system?" What is different about these new groups vs. the older ones?

Exactly what agv8or said in his post: the groups can now individually be set into different modes, or turned on and off. In the older pre-RT flash system, all groups had to be in one mode (eTTL or Manual), and could not be turned on and off individually. I.e., in the old system, you had to use all eTTL and ratios (A:B:C). In the new system, you can set Group A to manual 1/8, Group B to eTTL, Group C to MULTI, etc. etc....


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agv8or
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Feb 06, 2014 03:59 |  #7

Roxie2401 wrote in post #16666352 (external link)
At first I guess what has confused me it the difference between "Channels" and "Groups." I know my 580EX II / ST-E2 had up to four "Channels" as well as three groups, A, B, C. And are there groups/channels in the new RT system and what is unique about the 7D?

IF the older flash units had Groups, can you explain what you mean by "new Groups mode introduced with the Canon Wireless RT system?" What is different about these new groups vs. the older ones?

"Groups", "Modes" and "Channels" are used in the same context in both Canon Wireless systems. If you understand the Wireless Optical system then you will have no problem understanding the new Wireless RT system. Both systems share 3 Wireless Modes where as only the Wireless RT system has the new <Gr> mode which is only supported when using a camera released in 2012 or newer such as the 5Dm3 or 1Dx. The new Yongnuo YN-E3-RT does allow the new <Gr> mode to function with DSLRs released prior to 2012 such as the 5Dm2 and 7D. Your 7D is not special unless it is using the YN-E3-RT.

First lets look at "Channels". Very simply put you set all components to the same channel so that they all work together. You have 4 possible channels with the Optical system and 15 channels with the RT system. Since the RT system is radio transmission without the limitations of the Optical system such as distance and line of sight means that the likeliness of interference is greater with the newer system especially in urban areas. To further isolate the system from other users with in range of your system they gave you the ability to enter a 4 digit radio ID that you choose so it is unique to you and which must also be entered into each component.

The 3 Modes shared by both Wireless systems are: M (Manual), ETTL and Multi (Stroboscopic Flash). When you choose one of these 3 modes all of the Slave Groups will only function in that mode. An example is when in Manual mode all Slave Groups will be set to a Manual Flash setting designated by the Master. There is a maximum of 3 Slave Groups allowable for each of these 3 modes. You can designate one or more Slave flash units to each of these 3 Groups identified with a letter designation (A, B or C). You can choose to have all of the Groups fire as if they were all in the same Group or you can break them down into 2 Groups (A:B) or you can break them down into 3 Groups by adding the C Group.

The new Wireless RT system adds a 4th mode called Groups and is designated as <Gr>. Think of the new <Gr> mode as modes within a mode behaving independantly within each individual Slave Group. The new <Gr> mode also allows for the use of up to 5 Groups of Slaves again identified with a letter designation (A, B, C, D, and E). When you choose to use the new <Gr> mode you are not locked into only using all Slave Groups in just one mode but you have the ability to designate a mode to each individual Slave Group. You have 3 modes to choose from for each Group of Slaves: M (Manual), ETTL or Ext. A (Auto External Metering). You also have the option to just turn a Slave Group OFF. For instance you could set Slave Group A to M, Slave Group B to ETTL, Slave Group C to OFF, Slave Group D to Ext. A and Slave Group E to M.

The advantage to the new <Gr> mode is it offers more creative options and allows for the use of 2 more Slave Groups (5 total) plus it allows you to mix Modes so that you are no longer locked into just one Mode. It also allows for the only way to use External Metering in a wireless setup. It would not be a big deal if all you ever used was 3 or less Slave Groups and if you only ever shot with just one mode. Adding a YN-E3-RT not only allows for the older DSLR cameras to utilize the <Gr> mode but it also gives you focus assist and rear curtain sync in Manual Wireless which is only useable in the Wireless Manual mode.


Rand

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Roxie2401
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Feb 06, 2014 07:04 as a reply to  @ agv8or's post |  #8

Inkista & Agv8or - you guys nailed it. Thanks so much.

Looks like it may be time to go 600EX-RT one of these days.

Now what to do with that ST-E2...............




  
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Nick5
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Feb 06, 2014 09:43 |  #9

An real life example of Group Mode would be at a wedding reception or event in a large room.
One or two speeds on stands set to Manual. These would be used for room illumination. Consistent output every time.
A third flash on camera set to ETTL for fill light. Since our distance of flash to subject changes, ETTL comes in handy when on the move.
We can also turn off one or both of the two speed lights from the on camera Speedlight which is wonderful since the two mounted Speedlites may be several feet high. This way we can isolate power levels when setting up or adjusting during event.
Group Mode is now available to me since I added the 5D Mark III and could not be any happier.


Canon 5D Mark III (x2), BG-E11 Grips, 7D (x2) BG-E7 Grips, Canon Lenses 16-35 f/4 L IS, 17-40 f/4 L, 24-70 f/4 L IS, 70-200 f/2.8 L IS II, 70-200 f/4 L IS, 70-200 f/4 L IS Version II, 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 L IS Version II, TS-E 24 f/3.5 L II, 100 f/2.8 L Macro IS, 10-22 f3.5-4.5, 17-55 f/2.8 L IS, 85 f/1.8, Canon 1.4 Extender III, 5 Canon 600 EX-RT, 2 Canon ST-E3 Transmitters, Canon Pixma PRO-10 Printer

  
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Roxie2401
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Feb 06, 2014 10:54 |  #10

Nick5 wrote in post #16667937 (external link)
An real life example of Group Mode would be at a wedding reception or event in a large room.
One or two speeds on stands set to Manual. These would be used for room illumination. Consistent output every time.
A third flash on camera set to ETTL for fill light. Since our distance of flash to subject changes, ETTL comes in handy when on the move.
We can also turn off one or both of the two speed lights from the on camera Speedlight which is wonderful since the two mounted Speedlites may be several feet high. This way we can isolate power levels when setting up or adjusting during event.
Group Mode is now available to me since I added the 5D Mark III and could not be any happier.

Nick,

Thanks that is a good example. But, your last comment about Group Mode being available with the 5D3 - how was Group Mode limited with your 7D?




  
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Nick5
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Feb 06, 2014 12:50 |  #11

Unfortunately Group Mode is not available with pre 2012 Canon Cameras with the Canon 600 EX-RT and ST-E3.
However the 7D Sync Speed of 1/250 is available with the Canon 600 EX-RT and ST-E3, even though the manual says you lose 1 stop.


Canon 5D Mark III (x2), BG-E11 Grips, 7D (x2) BG-E7 Grips, Canon Lenses 16-35 f/4 L IS, 17-40 f/4 L, 24-70 f/4 L IS, 70-200 f/2.8 L IS II, 70-200 f/4 L IS, 70-200 f/4 L IS Version II, 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 L IS Version II, TS-E 24 f/3.5 L II, 100 f/2.8 L Macro IS, 10-22 f3.5-4.5, 17-55 f/2.8 L IS, 85 f/1.8, Canon 1.4 Extender III, 5 Canon 600 EX-RT, 2 Canon ST-E3 Transmitters, Canon Pixma PRO-10 Printer

  
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Roxie2401
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Feb 06, 2014 13:13 |  #12

Nick5 wrote in post #16668471 (external link)
Unfortunately Group Mode is not available with pre 2012 Canon Cameras with the Canon 600 EX-RT and ST-E3.
However the 7D Sync Speed of 1/250 is available with the Canon 600 EX-RT and ST-E3, even though the manual says you loose stop.


Nick,

What am I missing - when I had a 580EX II & the 7D, I was pretty sure I could still have the groups, A, B & C. Is there just more control over the groups (plus 5 groups instead of 3) in the newer (5D3, etc.) bodies?




  
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agv8or
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Feb 06, 2014 14:50 |  #13

Nick5 wrote in post #16667937 (external link)
An real life example of Group Mode would be at a wedding reception or event in a large room.
One or two speeds on stands set to Manual. These would be used for room illumination. Consistent output every time.
A third flash on camera set to ETTL for fill light. Since our distance of flash to subject changes, ETTL comes in handy when on the move.
We can also turn off one or both of the two speed lights from the on camera Speedlight which is wonderful since the two mounted Speedlites may be several feet high. This way we can isolate power levels when setting up or adjusting during event.
Group Mode is now available to me since I added the 5D Mark III and could not be any happier.

Roxie2401 wrote in post #16668151 (external link)
Nick,

Thanks that is a good example. But, your last comment about Group Mode being available with the 5D3 - how was Group Mode limited with your 7D?

Nick5 wrote in post #16668471 (external link)
Unfortunately Group Mode is not available with pre 2012 Canon Cameras with the Canon 600 EX-RT and ST-E3.
However the 7D Sync Speed of 1/250 is available with the Canon 600 EX-RT and ST-E3, even though the manual says you loose stop.

Roxie2401 wrote in post #16668541 (external link)
Nick,

What am I missing - when I had a 580EX II & the 7D, I was pretty sure I could still have the groups, A, B & C. Is there just more control over the groups (plus 5 groups instead of 3) in the newer (5D3, etc.) bodies?

Roxie you are still confusing your self. As has been mentioned the new Gr mode when using only Canon components (600EX-RT and ST-E3-RT) is not available to use with DSLRs released prior to 2012 such as your 7D. Only those DSLRs released in 2012 forward (5Dm3 and 1Dx) can use the Gr mode. You still have available to use the 3 modes ( Manual, ETTL and Multi) with up to 3 Slave Groups as nothing has changed there between the two systems. If you want to use the new Gr mode with your 7D then you will need to get Yongnuo's YN-E3-RT which does allow for the older DSLRs (such as your 7D) to use the Gr mode. The YN-E3-RT is a clone of the ST-E3-RT with expanded capabilities such as adding Gr mode for older DSLRs, focus assist and wireless second curtain sync.


Rand

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Roxie2401
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Feb 06, 2014 15:17 |  #14

agv8or wrote in post #16668769 (external link)
Roxie you are still confusing your self. As has been mentioned the new Gr mode when using only Canon components (600EX-RT and ST-E3-RT) is not available to use with DSLRs released prior to 2012 such as your 7D. Only those DSLRs released in 2012 forward (5Dm3 and 1Dx) can use the Gr mode. You still have available to use the 3 modes ( Manual, ETTL and Multi) with up to 3 Slave Groups as nothing has changed there between the two systems. If you want to use the new Gr mode with your 7D then you will need to get Yongnuo's YN-E3-RT which does allow for the older DSLRs (such as your 7D) to use the Gr mode. The YN-E3-RT is a clone of the ST-E3-RT with expanded capabilities such as adding Gr mode for older DSLRs, focus assist and wireless second curtain sync.


Rand,

You are right - I'm still confused.

Maybe its just as simple as, what is the difference between "Groups" and "Group Mode?" I think you said I had three "groups" with the older flash (580EX II & 7D), now there are five "groups." So, I'm left with understanding the difference between "Groups" and "Group mode."

I've looked at the on-line manual for the 600EX-RT but its got to be just a basic mental block between the two terms. Sorry.




  
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agv8or
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Feb 06, 2014 15:37 |  #15

Roxie2401 wrote in post #16668862 (external link)
Rand,

You are right - I'm still confused.

Maybe its just as simple as, what is the difference between "Groups" and "Group Mode?" I think you said I had three "groups" with the older flash (580EX II & 7D), now there are five "groups." So, I'm left with understanding the difference between "Groups" and "Group mode."

I've looked at the on-line manual for the 600EX-RT but its got to be just a basic mental block between the two terms. Sorry.

You only have 5 Slave Groups in the Gr mode. You still only have 3 Slave Groups in the other 3 modes. Your 7D cannot use Gr mode unless you use the Yongnuo YN-E3-RT. It is as simple as that.


Rand

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What is Gr Mode?
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