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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 11 Feb 2014 (Tuesday) 01:53
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Company buys full rights - can I still claim photo as mine?

 
ahmad0420
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Feb 11, 2014 01:53 |  #1

So a company require that I sell to them the full rights, so that they have all the right in the world to use it how and when they like.

My question is, am I still allowed to claim the photos as mine? For example uploading to my Facebook page portfolio? How does the copyright works now? The draft I have on my T&C basically states "unlimited and exclusive rights"


PS. I still havent got the full grip on the difference between RIGHTS and COPYRIGHT. So I'm wondering if I'm supposed to sell the copyrights to the company as well.

Basically what the client want is:

1. Full right to use the image however and whenever they like
2. For me not to publish the work ANYWHERE
3. They want to be the only one that have permission to use the image.
4. They don't want the POSSIBILITY of the image going to other people.


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proimages
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Feb 11, 2014 02:36 |  #2

Check on assigning them 'unlimited usage rights'
that way you retain all your rights.
cheers
Darrin


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ahmad0420
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Feb 11, 2014 02:45 |  #3

Understand that, but apart from the rights to use it, they also require me NOT to use it. That's where the problem comes in my head.


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nathancarter
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Feb 11, 2014 10:42 |  #4

What good is a photo that you can't show anyone? If they want to buy the copyright so they can restrict your usage of the photo, then sell them the copyright.

FOR THE RIGHT PRICE.


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gonzogolf
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Feb 11, 2014 10:54 |  #5

If you sell them what they ask for in your numbered list then yes, you would be prohibited from using the photo for pretty much anything. Putting something on facebook could be considered publishing if you dont clarify your terms properly. Just so you understand copyright. Except where you do work for hire where the employer owns the copyright, you own the rights to images you take. You can do pretty much anything you want in regard to selling, licensing (sale with limitation or expiration dates). Just be clear what your sale or licensing agreement includes, as from there it becomes a matter of contractual law and not just simple copyright.




  
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magoosmc
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Feb 11, 2014 11:17 |  #6

ahmad0420 wrote in post #16680362 (external link)
1. Full right to use the image however and whenever they like
2. For me not to publish the work ANYWHERE
3. They want to be the only one that have permission to use the image.
4. They don't want the POSSIBILITY of the image going to other people.

This is not uncommon. I shoot under contract for a large organization and everything I shoot for them falls under the aforementioned. At the end of each day I just turn in the cards and in return they give me a nice check. No photo credits, no reposting, no nothing. There are times when I would love to share a few and claim the bragging rights or add some to a portfolio but the truth is the money makes it all worthwhile. I guess you have to decide what is more important to you - the photos or the money.


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sspellman
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Feb 11, 2014 11:23 |  #7

"Exclusive rights" by definition excludes YOU too. Your client terms 2-4 clearly do not permit you to post on FB or your portfolio. You should additionally sell copyright to the images to this client for the right price.

In cases where I "work for hire" or sell copyright, I provide the client with 3 digital copies and remove my obligation to provide backups in the future and delete my copies after the job is done. This will reduce any chance of issues with distribution of the photos.

Your laws in Singapore are different than US and EU laws. Its a very good idea to get a solid contract from a good local lawyer.

-Scott


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proimages
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Feb 11, 2014 14:47 as a reply to  @ sspellman's post |  #8

yes, agreed if they want exclusivity, just a matter of how many zeroooo's goes on the bill. cheers D


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Nightstalker
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Feb 11, 2014 14:50 |  #9

What they want is not unreasonable depending upon the price.

The negotiation strategy is usuall quote them some stupidly large figure as a Copyright buyout (they will own the image) and then to negotiate the price down by moving to a licensing deal and cutting out the things that they don't want or limiting their rights in some way.

If you feel that the image is very saleable to a wide range of client then the Copyright buyout will be a very large figure that in part represents your potential loss of earnings by not selling the image to others.

Things that may be used to egotiate the price down would be to limit their exclusive usage by geographic region and/or time, media of delivery print, TV, web etc.


  
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Tom ­ Reichner
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Feb 12, 2014 04:27 |  #10

What their contract stipulates is typical for many of the larger publishers. In fact, most of the images you see in magazines with widespread national circulation are licensed according to these terms. This is nothing unique, or even slightly unusual. In fact, anything other than this would be the exception, at least for publications with widespread national distribution. Welcome to the world of stock photo licensing!


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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mikeinctown
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Feb 12, 2014 08:49 |  #11

Rights to use an image are different than copyright. You may still own a copyright, but if youy grant full rights then you must abide by the terms you agreed to in the contract. So if you sign the contract, you would still own the images, but would not be able to use them.

Based on the 4 expectations presented, you need to just forget they exist or only grant exclusive rights for a given amount of time. Personally, if the money is right, why would I ever care or want to put an image on facebook or anywhere else. Either way, you need to negotiate or agree to the terms that satisfy both of you.

<edit> I should also mention that you should be aware of how large this company is, or how large an advertising operation or distribution they have. Exclusive to use any time, anywhere, and forever will command a higher price tag.




  
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Tom ­ Reichner
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Feb 12, 2014 12:26 |  #12

Keep in mind that the vast majority of publishers - the ones buying the rights to use these images - have a pre-written contract that all contributors must agree to. They also have set rates. So there is typically no negotiating. You either sign their contract and accept their standard rates, or they don't use your work. Editors and art directors are too busy to be bothered with entering into negotiations for each photo they use. They have spots to fill on a whole bunch of pages, and they seek to do it as quickly and efficiently as possible.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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CAPhotog
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Feb 15, 2014 11:59 |  #13

I have faced this with a few clients and agencies. My view is that most just want to ensure they have complete usage rights, not to stop me from receiving credit. If this is worthwhile to grant, or absolutely necessary for the client's operations, I may agree. If using my own contract, I just include a clause stating I reserve the right to use the images for my portfolio, self-promotion, contests or exhibitions. No small business has ever questioned this. However, if I am signing the client's contract, I ask if I still have the right to use the images for that purpose, or say I would like to receive a credit line. Usually, they reply yes and I write that by hand onto their contract when I sign, keeping a copy for myself. On a few occasions, larger companies have said they need to run it through corporate or legal. This takes awhile, working against their own schedule, until someone usually writes back saying they agree. I save that correspondence as "permission explicitly granted in writing". A few times, the contract has actually been rewritten to include the terms. Sometimes you just need to ask. It helps to be professional and nice about it, plus willing to walk away.




  
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1000WordsPhotography
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Feb 15, 2014 12:52 |  #14

It completely depends on how the contract is worded (in the US). If I have a customer that wants full copyright I typically word the contract such that they have full and exclusive copyright and they grant me a lifetime promotional use license for marketing materials and such. Only twice has someone required that I not use an image at all and they paid handsomely for the privilege.


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KoalaCowboy
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Feb 15, 2014 15:02 |  #15

Exclusive rights = Exclusive $$$$$

If they really want the image with no strings attached, they should pay you for that right! Otherwise, you're being given the low-ball and no $$ for YOUR work & effort.


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Company buys full rights - can I still claim photo as mine?
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