6D VS 5d3 - Hard Time Deciding

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #16699347
The same exact thing can and should be said of the 6D, so I fail to see your point.

As I and others have stated numerous times, I've shot both, I know for a fact that I don't need the 5D3 and in fact with my favorite lenses the 6D is the better camera thanks to the EG-S screen.

"The same exact thing can and should be said of the 6D", But you fail to see my point?

I was simply saying that a lot of times people want to speak on gear that they know nothing about. But also "Some People" don't like seeing others with things that they can't have (Just being real). This unfortunately is the society that we live in. We are surrounded by HATERS. If your 6D works for you, I'm happy for you! My 1st Camera was the 7D. I decided I wanted to go Full Frame and opted for the 5DIII because of it's build quality and size and other obvious features. Their are literally hundreds of choices when it comes to camera's. I know people who use their iphone to take pictures, and they are content. We should all respect each others choices. and move on...............Sorry if I hit a nerve, I didn't mean too!

Here are my thoughts regarding the 7D/70D AF vs 6D AF, having used and owned all 3 (at the same time).

Using center point, the 6D is just as much capable as the 7D/70D. AF accuracy in my experience is actually better on the 6D, and it does not seem to be affected by the infamous focus shift the 7D/70D produces under different lights (natural vs. incandescent --> quite the focus shift when using a fast lens.)

Even one-shot focus speed is very similar, I made a video, where I thoroughly compared my 7D and 6D under medium lights in one-shot mode, using 2 different lenses (Canon 24-105L, and Tamron 24-70 2.8 VC). Both center and off center points were just as fast, often slightly faster on the 6D. I didn't want to believe my eyes. I recorded both cameras and made a split-screen video in Premiere Pro where I synced the start (shutter button half press), and timed the focus confirmation beep. The 6D was significantly faster with the Tamron lens than the 7D with the Tamron lens (both center and peripheral points), but that may be due to some minor firmware "issue" that slows down the Tamron on the 7D (the 70D is similar with the Tamron). Even with the 24-105L on both cameras, the 6D registered more wins in this contests (the margin of wins were only a few milliseconds though, nothing perceptible in real life.)

Tracking is pretty good with the 6D too with the center point. A couple weeks ago I shot a charity basketball game from the stands using my Sigma 70-200 2.8 OS, and I was satisfied with the results.
So far it looks good for the 6D...

Now, when it comes to the outer points, the story changes a bit. Even though the general consensus is that the 6D's AF system is an improvement over the 5D2's (both center and off-center points) the fact is you still only have non-cross type outer points. So you gotta be careful and keep in mind the orientation of the non-cross type points. Under most conditions, if you have a good target, you can use the outer points with confidence. It's physics; if they see a good target, e.g. someone's eye, they lock on and they are accurate. But when conditions go downhill, or occasionally they encounter a pattern that they can't pick up due to orientation, there may be problems. Obviously, you don't have to worry about this with the 7D/70D (and the 5DIII). On these bodies both one-shot and AI servo is good with these outer points; so we could say that the range of conditions that these outer points track well is much wider than with the 6D. It's not like the 6D won't track with the outer points but when conditions get to a point, there will be more keepers with the 7D/70D/5DIII, probably the most keepers with the latter. So it largely depends on the task and the conditions how much better the more advanced AF system will do. But anyone who buys a 6D is not buying it for off-center AF point tracking purposes during twilight

So that's why it is very important to determine what you're going to use your body for. There are fairly simple tasks that a 6D can do with ease (a dog walking or jogging at steady speed and predictable direction is one of them in my opinion.) However, if the motion gets more complex or you need to track with the outer points for composition reasons under more challenging conditions, it's obviously better to trust a more advanced AF system with that task.

I really like my 6D, I think it's an excellent value and generally I'm not challenging its AF system with tasks that I don't expect it to perform well at. Occasionally, I run into situations where I need to track a bird in flight with the center point and it performs well (and birds are mainly what I shoot.) But I'd still like to afford a 5DIII some day.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #16699591
I never use center point in either orientation during basketball shots, simply because I don't want the guys' butts in focus, I want their faces.

I use very close to the top AF point for tracking in portrait mode (actually down and to the left a bit), so I can track the players movements

Let me expand on the above.

Even if you aren't tracking and subject being relatively still, using one of the top AF points for portrait makes the perfect sense, as you don't really want to focus on people's chest but on the eyes.

Having more crosstype AF points at your disposal means you will be able to plant a point and focus on subject's eyes both reliably and accurately in the framing you want.

Now that's a great shot Teamspeed. That's something I highly doubt that a 6D can pull off.

I've said it and I'll say it again, the 70D is a more rounded camera for all purpose use than a 6D. I'd pick the 70D over the 6D any given day.

Thank you, it was something I was surprised to see come out as it did. I don't shoot burst at all, everything I do is single shot.

That is what made this shot fun, look at the expressions, the beer about to be spilled, etc. All I did was track the tshirt after it was thrown and then snapped the shot once I saw people in the frame.

gabebalazs wrote in post #16699618
I really like my 6D, I think it's an excellent value and generally I'm not challenging its AF system with tasks that I don't expect it to perform well at. Occasionally, I run into situations where I need to track a bird in flight with the center point and it performs well (and birds are mainly what I shoot.) But I'd still like to afford a 5DIII some day.

Hey Gabe you really need to try one. You will most likely sell both your 70D and 6D for it

It's great that someone like you who knows exactly what and why you need the tool you have, but imo we often see many current crop owners (say a 7D) here who wants to step up to ff and looking to get 6D simply because it's cheap.

It really saddens me when people rather give up composition and AF accuracy for better ISO....as I've been thru it and really don't want people to make the same mistake.

Thanks to everyone who offered up advice. I appreciate the time put in! Lots to read over before I decide. I don't have endless funds, so price really is a factor for me. I just wanted to make sure that if I was spending the extra for the 5d3, it's because I really needed to. If the 6D will fill my needs and I won't be left wanting more, then great. It's a big decision for me, and I really do appreciate the advice!

I find it unfortunate that some people feel the need to make fun of what others like to shoot. I've had photos published in multiple National breed magazines and in advertisements for some of North America's top dogs. Maybe someday when I grow up and decide to shoot difficult things like tree's and mountains, I'll need a real big girl camera.

I'm in the same boat as the op, I actually returned my 6D because it was faulty out of the box. Now I am really thinking hard, if I will go for the 5D3, but looking at the high ISO comparisons, the 6D wins. But I really would like to have a joystick as that's what I'm used to, but then again the price is almost nearly 2x of the 6D....

The Canon 7D Kid wrote in post #16699605
=The "Canon 7D" Kid;16699605]"The same exact thing can and should be said of the 6D", But you fail to see my point?

I was simply saying that a lot of times people want to speak on gear that they know nothing about. But also "Some People" don't like seeing others with things that they can't have (Just being real). This unfortunately is the society that we live in. We are surrounded by HATERS. If your 6D works for you, I'm happy for you! My 1st Camera was the 7D. I decided I wanted to go Full Frame and opted for the 5DIII because of it's build quality and size and other obvious features. Their are literally hundreds of choices when it comes to camera's. I know people who use their iphone to take pictures, and they are content. We should all respect each others choices. and move on...............Sorry if I hit a nerve, I didn't mean too!

You didn't strike a nerve, didn't mean to come off hostile. I'm simply pointing out that the 5D3 is not the end-all be-all solution that most people like to claim it is. Different horses for different courses. For what I shoot I genuinely prefer my 6D and I've shot with both on numerous occasions.

kin2son wrote in post #16699657
Let me expand on the above.

Even if you aren't tracking and subject being relatively still, using one of the top AF points for portrait makes the perfect sense, as you don't really want to focus on people's chest but on the eyes.

Having more crosstype AF points at your disposal means you will be able to plant a point and focus on subject's eyes both reliably and accurately in the framing you want.

Now that's a great shot Teamspeed. That's something I highly doubt that a 6D can pull off.

I've said it and I'll say it again, the 70D is a more rounded camera for all purpose use than a 6D. I'd pick the 70D over the 6D any given day.

Yes, they were great shots, and yes they could absolutely be pulled off with a 6D. Note that the DOF isn't all that narrow, there's a lot more in focus than just the players eyes, which is what makes it a great shot. You seem to always talk about how important it is to focus on a subjects eyes... if only his eyes were in focus the photo would be severely lacking.

As I've stated before, I've had no issues using MF to track tumbling gymnasts at wide aperture. If I were doing it professionally, sure I'd opt for a more advanced focus system, but it's not necessary for the occasional sports shoot.

These posts are ridiculous. Its nice that you are asking for opinions but some people blow things out of proportion. If you are able to get the 5d money wise. Get it. You wont regret it. If not then get the 6d. Still a great camera but you will always be wondering "how would the 5d handled this situation." There are many reasons why the 5d is still a superior camera to the 6d and vice versa. However the only aspect that i feel the 6d can hold anything iver the 5d is in low light performance. Remember there is still LR or whatever use to clean up some images. Buy once cry once! Thats what they told me! I havent cried since!

I recently had to make the decision between the two as well. I went with the 6D over the 5dM3 for the low light performance. It was the sole reason for the upgrade, so it's where I put my money.

I've saved the difference of the lovely swoon worthy lens I want and will be ordering it soon enough.

I do miss the joy stick, zoom buttons, and top button white balance; but just as it was different going from the xt to the 7d, I'll adjust and it will become muscle memory over time.

Best of luck in your decision. Either way I'm sure you will not be disappointed with the upgrade.

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #16700058
Yes, they were great shots, and yes they could absolutely be pulled off with a 6D.

Not all, but specifically the one I tagged.

Center point 6D shooters can only dream of getting that shot with the framing it displayed.

Oh and focusing on eyes doesn't necessarily mean shallow dof.

I just don't focus elsewhere, sacrifice composition/framing or hope that the dof is thick enough to cover my subject's eyes.

When it comes to portrait, eyes have to be the sharpest focus. That's portrait 101

I admit I havent shot either but the thing that comes to my mind is that the OP says "I generally use the center focus point". To me that screams save your money and get the 6d. The second thing that stands out to me is that the OP is shooting dogs and the examples of the type of shooting wasnt dogs running around drastically changing directions at an given moment but dogs moving in a fairly predictable direction/movement. So again that would indicate to me that the 6d is well enough. Finally since the difference in the few outer points that the 6d does have compared to the 5d3 is cross vs non cross type i wonder (and i truly dont know if this makes it more difficult to track dogs) is if the 6d's non cross type could not just as easily lock onto dogs fur as a cross type af point could? Im guessing that there is enough texture or contrast (or whatever it should be called) for the 6D to lock on and stay locked on. Hopefully someone with a 6d or a really old rebel could shoot a few dogs to see how well the outer af points lock on to dogs hair. But i guess i agree with the idea that dogs arent a difficult subject to track so i dont get the reasoning behind needing to buy the 5d3. I think some people just dont think things through and as soon as they hear tracking they think only the 5d3 will suffice. Its like people asking for advice for a new camera to shoot their newborn kid and then hearing people recommend the 5d3 for the af and tracking system. Its not like the little bugger is moving at breakneck speeds

elitejp wrote in post #16700190
I admit I havent shot either but the thing that comes to my mind is that the OP says "I generally use the center focus point". To me that screams save your money and get the 6d. The second thing that stands out to me is that the OP is shooting dogs and the examples of the type of shooting wasnt dogs running around drastically changing directions at an given moment but dogs moving in a fairly predictable direction/movement. So again that would indicate to me that the 6d is well enough. Finally since the difference in the few outer points that the 6d does have compared to the 5d3 is cross vs non cross type i wonder (and i truly dont know if this makes it more difficult to track dogs) is if the 6d's non cross type could not just as easily lock onto dogs fur as a cross type af point could? Im guessing that there is enough texture or contrast (or whatever it should be called) for the 6D to lock on and stay locked on. Hopefully someone with a 6d or a really old rebel could shoot a few dogs to see how well the outer af points lock on to dogs hair. But i guess i agree with the idea that dogs arent a difficult subject to track so i dont get the reasoning behind needing to buy the 5d3. I think some people just dont think things through and as soon as they hear tracking they think only the 5d3 will suffice. Its like people asking for advice for a new camera to shoot their newborn kid and then hearing people recommend the 5d3 for the af and tracking system. Its not like the little bugger is moving at breakneck speeds

Your quote about the auto focus/tracking system for the 5d taking portraits. Actually the 5d is great for that. Instead of just focussing on the subjects eye, you can focus on the whole face pretty much with the array of the mark iii. Thats a huge plus for portrait shooters. Another great feature of the af array is that because it reaches so far across the frame, you dont have to have the subject dead center of the frame all the time.

For fast moving dogs, Center point is the best way to go IMO. It's simply too hard to track the eyes or face, since it's small and can easily go out of target. It would be hard as heck to use the outer points to compose if action were this fast.

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Charlie wrote in post #16700292
For fast moving dogs, Center point is the best way to go IMO. It's simply too hard to track the eyes or face, since it's small and can easily go out of target. It would be hard as heck to use the outer points to compose if action were this fast.

I am no expert at this subject but in your example it is easier to track a moving object when it is moving towards you. How about one moving laterally at high speed I think we would see a significant difference.