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Thread started 14 Feb 2014 (Friday) 16:55
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Article - Sony is a real innovator, Canon is not

 
archer1960
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Feb 20, 2014 16:05 |  #16

gjl711 wrote in post #16704630 (external link)
Interesting article and though both companies have a differing market view, this one sentence summed it up for me.
ANd it's been 5 1/2 years, not 3~4. Canon has done little to improve IQ since the 5DII and the 7D. Little things here and there and a big focus on video, but they are leaving the still shooters out of the picture.

No, it hasn't been that long for the 18MP crop sensor. FF maybe, but the 18Mpx crop version is only a couple of years old. And the 1DX, 5D3 and 6D have hugely better ISO capability than the previous generation.


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andrikos
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Feb 20, 2014 16:36 |  #17

"Article - Sony is a real innovator, Canon is not"

From:
http://www.marketwatch​.com …atents-in-2013-2014-01-14 (external link)

"...IBM is at the top of the list again with a record-setting 6,809 patents, continuing a dominance that has lasted 21 straight years. Up 5 percent over the previous year, IBM maintains a comfortable lead of more than 2,000 patents over the closest contender, #2 Samsung Electronics. Canon, at #3, increased its count by 20 percent over 2012,[Sony is 4th]..."

David Arbogast above is correct. Canon is at a position of dominance and, to our chagrin, can afford to be more conservative.

If Sony was as conservative as Canon is right now they'd go extinct soon.
How many Sony DSLRs do you see professionals use? Exactly.
Sony is desperate. They have lost so many markets they were kings of, it's not even funny.

Long story short, Canon, just like Sony, has the R&D, manufacturing wherewithal, engineering resources and marketing abilities to leapfrog each other until kingdom come.

Until then carry on...


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pwm2
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Feb 20, 2014 16:48 |  #18

But Canon would take a little less bashing if they could just get a new fab online and start producing some marvelous new sensors. But it's a multi-year project and we don't know when/if Canon did press the "let's run" button for that project.


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Feb 20, 2014 17:00 |  #19

gonzogolf wrote in post #16704732 (external link)
And yet the Sony imaging division is barely profitable and canon is making cash.

This.

In response to this thread. Lets not forget that Canon owns 60% of the market :) At least they did at the world press photo awards.

http://www.canonrumors​.com …e-world-press-photo-list/ (external link)


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Talley
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Feb 20, 2014 17:01 |  #20

andrikos wrote in post #16704853 (external link)
How many Sony DSLRs do you see professionals use? Exactly.

See my link above :)


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andrikos
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Feb 20, 2014 17:05 |  #21

pwm2 wrote in post #16704882 (external link)
But Canon would take a little less bashing if they could just get a new fab online and start producing some marvelous new sensors. But it's a multi-year project and we don't know when/if Canon did press the "let's run" button for that project.

From:

http://www.chipworks.c​om …s-canon-stays-the-course/ (external link)

"...Canon does have a 0.18 µm generation CIS wafer fab process, featuring a specialized Cu back end of line (BEOL) including light pipes (shown below). It is possible to speculate that Canon may be preparing to refresh its FF CIS line to supply devices for a new FF camera system..."

So, they do have the process. What they are doing with it right now is anyone's guess.
Maybe their new technological breakthrough will be a Foveon type chip with excellent ISO performance (something that the Sigma sensor lacks).


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pwm2
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Feb 20, 2014 17:17 |  #22

But Canon needs a fab handling large wafers and big capacity. How much of the current 0.18u fab is allocated to all the small sensors used in P&S and maybe for the DiGIC chips?


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andrikos
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Feb 20, 2014 17:25 |  #23

pwm2 wrote in post #16704938 (external link)
But Canon needs a fab handling large wafers and big capacity. How much of the current 0.18u fab is allocated to all the small sensors used in P&S and maybe for the DiGIC chips?

DiGiC 5s are manufactured at UMC (Canon + TI design) with a 32nm process. I don't know about the 6s.
We know they've had a 300mm Fab at least since 2010 when they manufactured a monster 200mm x 200mm prototype sensor (!!!).
Maybe their yields are crappy... who knows what's holding them up?
The Tsunami/Earthquake/Nuc​lear meltdown really screwed them up but that was back in 2011.


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Ginga
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Feb 20, 2014 18:33 |  #24

Talley wrote in post #16704900 (external link)
This.

In response to this thread. Lets not forget that Canon owns 60% of the market :) At least they did at the world press photo awards.

http://www.canonrumors​.com …e-world-press-photo-list/ (external link)

Its quite funny that whenever Canon is criticized for their lack of innovation and new sensor tech, Canonites are always quick to wave the "market dominance flag".

Toyota dominates the car market. And who in their right mind is lusting for a Toyota? ;)

Personaly, I couldn't care less about Canon's market dominance. But perhaps their market dominance is what makes them lazy and less innovative?


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archer1960
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Feb 20, 2014 18:40 |  #25

Ginga wrote in post #16705082 (external link)
Its quite funny that whenever Canon is criticized for their lack of innovation and new sensor tech, Canonites are always quick to wave the "market dominance flag".

Toyota dominates the car market. And who in their right mind is lusting for a Toyota? ;)

Personaly, I couldn't care less about Canon's market dominance. But perhaps their market dominance is what makes them lazy and less innovative?

Absolutely! That's true of pretty much every company which dominates their industry. Look at Microsoft, GM a few decades ago, IBM at the dawn of the PC age, or (a little closer to home) Kodak, etc...


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On ­ the ­ loose
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Feb 20, 2014 19:06 |  #26

All that canon have not done is produce a sensor of 36MP, which Sony have and Nikon used. However they do produce in the 5DIII a sensor with very low noise at high ISO, fast shooting rate, long battery life, fast writing to card, excellent usability and menus, etc etc.
Few lenses of what ever make (and certainly not Sony) are able to fully use the resolution of 36MP, as numerous tests involving real world shooting have shown. My 22MP is sufficient for all the photography I do, and I have a camera that is a joy to use. Now they need to look at the 7D and get its replacement with higher ISO and lower noise.




  
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Feb 20, 2014 19:14 as a reply to  @ On the loose's post |  #27

Sony should focus more on innovating solid business choices and profit margins, cause all in all they have a sensor and not much else.


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Feb 20, 2014 19:51 |  #28

Ginga wrote in post #16705082 (external link)
Toyota dominates the car market. And who in their right mind is lusting for a Toyota? ;)

You're kidding right? Toyota can't get Subaru to build 86's for them fast enough to keep up with customer demand. Plenty of people lusting after Toyotas


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Feb 20, 2014 19:56 |  #29

smythie wrote in post #16705234 (external link)
You're kidding right? Toyota can't get Subaru to build 86's for them fast enough to keep up with customer demand. Plenty of people lusting after Toyotas

Well that's the thing, the only Toyota anyone wants is a Subaru.


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Feb 21, 2014 01:15 |  #30

Colorblinded wrote in post #16705245 (external link)
Well that's the thing, the only Toyota anyone wants is a Subaru.

Well that's the thing, the only Nikon anyone wants is a Sony.

Oh, look! Irony.


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