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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 19 Feb 2014 (Wednesday) 20:31
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Wedding request from B&G

 
cdifoto
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Feb 20, 2014 07:44 |  #16

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #16703334 (external link)
If you are portfolio building it would be daft to take on a wedding which didn't allow you to use the images. Regardless as to whether you were doing it for free at a reduced rate it would be a poor decision to take it on.

With regards the second point I've never not gor a wedding because I hadn't shot at the venue before. Aside from anything else you can only determine there is a loss if it you can substantiate it. Otherwise you're just guessing that you may have lost money... perhaps.

A model release isn't a right... it is a bonus.

I see both sides of this. Early on you need experience as well as portfolio. You don't start out with 100 weddings behind you, and setting a precedent so early on makes it even harder to build the portfolio up. One bride gets privacy at no charge...why not everyone?

Not taking the wedding on would be equally daft as far as the B to be is concerned. It makes OP look insane for turning down work and money over something so "trivial" and a fee also makes OP look selfish.

Not much of a win here for OP if he is relatively new.


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Buckeye1
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Feb 20, 2014 08:27 |  #17

I will revise the agreement to make them happy. This wedding will not break me in anyway; I just thought to be able to display an image or two if they turn out exceptional.

I never sell my clients' images...ever! On the side note, they are beautiful and the venue is a very intimate setting.

jcpoulin wrote in post #16703686 (external link)
(joke)…Tell them if you can't show your images on you site…..then they can't show your/their images on their site…Facebook etc (joke)

Depends on your feel for the client and your desire to use images. If it were a exceptionally beautiful couple….or at a beautiful site that you feel offers pictures that would be worthy of use for marketing…..then convincing them nicely would be advised. Legally, unless they signed a contract that says you CAN'T use these picts….they probably don't have much standing…unless you are selling these other images.




  
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memoriesoftomorrow
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Feb 20, 2014 09:03 |  #18

What is people's primary motivation for shooting a wedding?

To capture the day for the CLIENTS' memories or to capture the day for YOUR OWN marketing


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cdifoto
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Feb 20, 2014 09:21 |  #19

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #16703888 (external link)
What is people's primary motivation for shooting a wedding?

To capture the day for the CLIENTS' memories or to capture the day for YOUR OWN marketing

Yeah that's why we charge money and advertise, right? Because we're all in it purely for the couple... :rolleyes:

I'm not afraid to admit that I like shooting pictures but I also like making money, so I need to show pictures to get new people to pay me money to shoot more pictures. Ask your client how they found you and decided to hire you...chances are it was either a SUPER strong recommendation...or pictures.


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Buckeye1
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Feb 20, 2014 09:34 |  #20

I agree 100%. The funny thing is, they love the images that I have showed them of other weddings, which includes guests, wedding party and family members. That was one of the major reasons they want me to be their photographer.

cdifoto wrote in post #16703912 (external link)
Yeah that's why we charge money and advertise, right? Because we're all in it purely for the couple... :rolleyes:

I'm not afraid to admit that I like shooting pictures but I also like making money, so I need to show pictures to get new people to pay me money to shoot more pictures. Ask your client how they found you and decided to hire you...chances are it was either a SUPER strong recommendation...or pictures.




  
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jwhite65
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Feb 20, 2014 10:27 |  #21

Buckeye1 wrote in post #16703941 (external link)
I agree 100%. The funny thing is, they love the images that I have showed them of other weddings, which includes guests, wedding party and family members. That was one of the major reasons they want me to be their photographer.

So do you have releases from all of the guests at those prior weddings who appeared in your photos?

If I remember right from the OP, the B&G don't have a problem with using photos of them... Just with using photos which have other people in them.

Does anyone have a release from all members of the wedding party who appear in promotional photographs? I don't shoot weddings. I read a lot and I don't recall ever seeing a recommendation to get releases from the bridesmaids, etc.

Is one even needed?

To the OP... I have to agree with others here. If the B&G are asking you not to use them, it seems a small concession for their business.


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Feb 20, 2014 11:47 |  #22

I am the OP ;-)a No, I had that statement in the agreement, and the B&G signed the release for me to use those photos. I never had one couple ask that question for eight years now. What guests/bridesmaids/gro​osmen/parents do not know that they will be photographed at a wedding whether posed or part of a candid shot?


No,

jwhite65 wrote in post #16704057 (external link)
So do you have releases from all of the guests at those prior weddings who appeared in your photos?

If I remember right from the OP, the B&G don't have a problem with using photos of them... Just with using photos which have other people in them.

Does anyone have a release from all members of the wedding party who appear in promotional photographs? I don't shoot weddings. I read a lot and I don't recall ever seeing a recommendation to get releases from the bridesmaids, etc.

Is one even needed?

To the OP... I have to agree with others here. If the B&G are asking you not to use them, it seems a small concession for their business.




  
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jwhite65
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Feb 20, 2014 13:05 |  #23

I don't think anyone gets releases from the wedding party or guests. But they still use them in their portfolios. The question here is whether or not a release is required for all persons appearing in your promotional photos. :)

Either way, your issue isn't really one of a release, but one of honoring a request by the B&G. If they insist on a release, it should be relatively easy to get them from the bridal party. You might want to talk to the B&G about it and at least be able to use some of your photos.


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Feb 20, 2014 13:24 as a reply to  @ jwhite65's post |  #24

Yes, I planned on revising the agreement for the B&G. I will also asked them for permission to approach at least the bridal party and have them signed the relase before the wedding day.

I thought about bringing extra release forms that day for the immediate family and parents of the ring bearer and flower girl. But that will take away my time of concentrating on the moments, so I decided to scrapped that idea.

Thank you all for your time to comment as I have gained new perspective in this situation.




  
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Feb 20, 2014 13:24 |  #25

I really don't see the problem here. Whether or not their concern is: common, legitimate, misguided, ...; they don't want you to use pictures they are hiring you to takes on your website. I would simply explain how copyright and releases actually work (it sounds like they don't have a clear understanding of them). If you are not able to change their minds: don't take the job.

Sure, legally, you can probably do what you want if it is not spelled out in the contract; but why would you want to?

There may also be something they're not telling you; maybe uncle Hairy is a fugitive..


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Feb 20, 2014 15:00 |  #26

I will be honest with you as I do not know exactly how copyright and releases work either ;-(

I think the common fear now-a-day is that everyone have access to social media, and some people are affraid of what is being posted without their knowledge. Though I have no ill will toward anyone and will be utmost diligent as to what I pick (the best few images) to put on my website, this still worry some people. I will choose to honor their request and explain to them my best ability. Which is the main reason I posted here so I can gain insight.

hairy_moth wrote in post #16704458 (external link)
I really don't see the problem here. Whether or not their concern is: common, legitimate, misguided, ...; they don't want you to use pictures they are hiring you to takes on your website. I would simply explain how copyright and releases actually work (it sounds like they don't have a clear understanding of them). If you are not able to change their minds: don't take the job.

Sure, legally, you can probably do what you want if it is not spelled out in the contract; but why would you want to?

There may also be something they're not telling you; maybe uncle Hairy is a fugitive..




  
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nathancarter
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Feb 20, 2014 15:46 |  #27

In the US, if you mashed the shutter button, you own the copyright, unless you have explicitly transferred the copyright to another party through a copyright transfer document, or if you produced the image as part of a work-for-hire agreement.

In the US, if you own the copyright, you don't LEGALLY need a model release to publish the image as journalism, or to sell the image as art. You do need a release to use the image commercially: That is, to use the image in such a way that indicates that the subject endorses a product or service.

The exchange of money does not automatically make it commercial use.
Using images in your portfolio can be a little bit of a gray area. Some might say that an image in your portfolio implies that the subject endorses you, the photographer.

Note, of course, that I'm no IP lawyer, and there are a million fine points of the law, such as reasonable expectation of privacy, etc etc ad infinitum.


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Shooting
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Feb 23, 2014 18:30 |  #28

It is in my contract that I own the rights to the images and reserve the right to use them for advertising or any other purpose deemed appropriate. They sign the contract and that gives me the right to use them on my site, business cards, etc. In 20 years I have never had 1 problem.




  
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Feb 24, 2014 09:16 |  #29

Shooting wrote in post #16711847 (external link)
It is in my contract that I own the rights to the images and reserve the right to use them for advertising or any other purpose deemed appropriate. They sign the contract and that gives me the right to use them on my site, business cards, etc. In 20 years I have never had 1 problem.

You've missed the point. The customer does not want the OP to "use them for advertising or any other purpose." So, if the B&G strike that line from the contract, and return it signed, do you:

  • take the job, honoring their conditions
  • take the job, ignoring their conditions
  • refuse the job
  • renegotiate your rates (since you loose some benefit from the job)

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Feb 24, 2014 10:38 |  #30

What is the big deal here? Book the wedding, select a few outstanding shots, ask their permission to post those specific shots. They will be ok with it or not.. but my guess is they will agree to a few for posting/portfolio. They are probably have concerns, but may be image/person specific, and if you choose ones without those concerns, then it is a non issue. Just be sure to have an addendum or something they sign saying it was ok to use image numbers XXX from the wedding done on XXX date.

If they dont' approve any pictures for posting - then move on respecting their wishes - probably get more refer's from not posting them in that case.


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