2nd shooter - RAW files to main?

bps wrote in post #16706872
I've shot quite a few weddings as a second shooter. Here is the workflow I use with the photographer I work for:

1) Upon arriving on site, I time sync both of my cameras with the primary photographer.
2) When the event is over, I go home and immediately download and back up all of the photos.
3) I cull out any test shots or out of focus shots to reduce the workload for the primary photographer.
4) That night, I upload the remaining files to a dropbox account set-up by the photographer I work for.
5) I wait until I receive a confirmation email from the primary photographer that all of the files have been received and backed up on their end, and then I will delete the files on my end.

That works great for us, but truthfully, the preferred workflow is completely up to the photographer I'm working for since he/she is the boss!

Bryan

Handing over a card does seem easier.

SMP_Homer wrote in post #16706894
Contract that I have with my 2nd shooters is that no, they don't get to use these files... I will give them a commendation letter or a good word as needed... don't want one of my couples finding their pic on someone else's site and they not knowing who that person is...

Yeah, this makes sense. If I were a primary, I'd want to do it that way.

scorpiojo wrote in post #16706934
I have worked for many studios and friends here in Chicago and each has it's own requirements. Some studios have you shoot with their CF carrds and don't expect to see the images but pays good. Another studio lets me use the images for my portfolio only after they have blogged it first, the pay is so so. I don't mind what each person or studio's requirement is as long as it is negotiated or spelt out upfront with no suprises. My policy is you get what you negotiate!

Sounds like a trade-off. More money - no images. Less money - more portfolio

Trent Gillespie wrote in post #16707016
First by portfolio. We then usually have a phone conversation with them, and lastly, sit down to coffee and discuss everything from gear to experience. We currently have two second shooters, but more for backup purposes or needing a third helping hand.

As for the RAW, second shooters always use our cards, which we then take home. As much as we trust our associates, I cannot risk them losing or corrupting a card.

Seems to be the consensus. Looking at it from the perspective of the primary it does seem reasonable.

OK. So this may be a stupid question...but if someone is starting out as a second shooter and the primary keeps the images (which I understand the reasoning behind this) how does the second shooter build their portfolio to be hired as a second shooter? It seems kinda like the proverbial chicken and the egg scenario. Or would you hire a second shooter based on their portrait portfolio and recommendation from a photog they seconded for?

NewCreation wrote in post #16707202
OK. So this may be a stupid question...but if someone is starting out as a second shooter and the primary keeps the images (which I understand the reasoning behind this) how does the second shooter build their portfolio to be hired as a second shooter? It seems kinda like the proverbial chicken and the egg scenario. Or would you hire a second shooter based on their portrait portfolio and recommendation from a photog they seconded for?

I forgot to mention that part... Once everything has been delivered to the client, I provide a few images in JPG format that the second shooter captured. I then ask them not to alter the image. From there, they are able to use it for their portfolio... although both of our second shooters already have an immense portfolio themselves.

The last thing I need is a second shooter delivering images to the bride before we do, or posting some monstrosity of an edit on the internet.

Trent Gillespie wrote in post #16707247
I forgot to mention that part... Once everything has been delivered to the client, I provide a few images in JPG format that the second shooter captured. I then ask them not to alter the image. From there, they are able to use it for their portfolio... although both of our second shooters already have an immense portfolio themselves.

The last thing I need is a second shooter delivering images to the bride before we do, or posting some monstrosity of an edit on the internet.

That seems very reasonable.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

2nd uses my cards, shoots RAW, and has no rights to the images. My regular assistant gets printed portfolio rights, but not rights to share publicly.

I use an assistant, not a second photographer. My weddings aren't so big I can't do most things myself, but I need help managing my equipment and with general stuff.

tim wrote in post #16708105
2nd uses my cards, shoots RAW, and has no rights to the images. My regular assistant gets printed portfolio rights, but not rights to share publicly.

I use an assistant, not a second photographer. My weddings aren't so big I can't do most things myself, but I need help managing my equipment and with general stuff.

Thanks, Tim. I'd be happy to assist you.

NewCreation wrote in post #16706469
So that brings to question: Can your second not use the shots in their portfolio? Or do they get a chance at copies?

This really depends on the primary photographer. I know photographers who do not allow the photos to be used online in any capacity. I'm not one of them and don't mind if the photos are used, provided the second shooter gives me a shout out with a link to my website.

NewCreation wrote in post #16706733
Do any of you want to chime in on how you select your second shooters?

Portfolio, experience, gear, etc. That said, the second photographers I use are primary photographer themselves and I often second shoot for them. So whenever we have a free weekend, we'll second shoot for each other.

NewCreation wrote in post #16707202
OK. So this may be a stupid question...but if someone is starting out as a second shooter and the primary keeps the images (which I understand the reasoning behind this) how does the second shooter build their portfolio to be hired as a second shooter? It seems kinda like the proverbial chicken and the egg scenario. Or would you hire a second shooter based on their portrait portfolio and recommendation from a photog they seconded for?

Again, this really depends on the primary photographer. When I was starting out, I was lucky enough to shoot for someone I know and he didn't care I used the images I shot. I've second shot for several photographers and here's the different requirements I've encountered:

• No restrictions to use photos.
  
• No restrictions to use photos as long as I put a link to the primary's website.
  
• Can't use it in my blog but can use it my main website's portfolio.
  
• Can't use it anywhere online but can use it in printed portfolio.
  
• Can't use it at all.

• Shoot with my cards. Primary copies to laptop.
  
• Shoot with my cards. Primary takes them and mails them back.
  
• Shoot with primary's cards. Nothing else.
  
• Shoot with primary's cards. Primary sends me a portable disk with all my images on it. I then send the disk back.
  
• Shoot with my cards. Taken them home. Upload to photographer's FTP site. (or my FTP site)

nicksan wrote in post #16708710
This really depends on the primary photographer. I know photographers who do not allow the photos to be used online in any capacity. I'm not one of them and don't mind if the photos are used, provided the second shooter gives me a shout out with a link to my website.


Portfolio, experience, gear, etc. That said, the second photographers I use are primary photographer themselves and I often second shoot for them. So whenever we have a free weekend, we'll second shoot for each other.

nicksan wrote in post #16708719
Again, this really depends on the primary photographer. When I was starting out, I was lucky enough to shoot for someone I know and he didn't care I used the images I shot. I've second shot for several photographers and here's the different requirements I've encountered:

• No restrictions to use photos.
  
• No restrictions to use photos as long as I put a link to the primary's website.
  
• Can't use it in my blog but can use it my main website's portfolio.
  
• Can't use it anywhere online but can use it in printed portfolio.
  
• Can't use it at all.

As for RAW images at the end of the day, here are the scenarios:

• Shoot with my cards. Primary copies to laptop.
  
• Shoot with my cards. Primary takes them and mails them back.
  
• Shoot with primary's cards. Nothing else.
  
• Shoot with primary's cards. Primary sends me a portable disk with all my images on it. I then send the disk back.
  
• Shoot with my cards. Taken them home. Upload to photographer's FTP site. (or my FTP site)

I still second shoot. I've been shooting for the same photographer (different one as the one mentioned above) for something like 4 years now. He doesn't care about me posting the photos as long as I give his studio a shout out. He second shoots for me at times and it's the same arrangement. The trust level is such that after we are done, we don't copy the images at the end of the day. We go home, do our usual thing of backing up to several drives/locations. Then we upload our images to an FTP site for access.

Thanks, Nick for the replies. Certainly lots of options on how to work things out. Trust is definitely something worth striving for and mutual shout outs are awesome.

Thanks to all of you who have replied. I appreciate the information and the kindness shared with me even though I am not even close to the same league as you all. Your graciousness is not lost on me. Again, Thank you.

It should all be discussed and understood before anything is shot. When I 2nd. shoot I give the main shooter all my raw files after I go thru and delete the out of focus ones, etc, I color correct and then give them to him. When someone 2nd shoots for me I have them a card to use and when everything is over they give me the memory card and then they go home or whatever and I process everything.

Any of you who regularly use second shooters mind sending me an agreement so I can see what it looks like? (Can't hurt to ask, right? )

The reason I ask is mainly to know the time line of payment. Thanks.

payment timeline with my shooters is at conclusion of wedding... basically, I get the cards, he gets the cash...
I know them well enough that if I'm asked for it ahead of time, I usually hand it over... I

SMP_Homer wrote in post #16751171
payment timeline with my shooters is at conclusion of wedding... basically, I get the cards, he gets the cash...
I know them well enough that if I'm asked for it ahead of time, I usually hand it over... I

Thanks. That helps.

I just did my first second shoot at a wedding this weekend. The contract originally said I can't use the images I shoot for anything. I humbly requested if I'd be allowed to use them after few months or something, he agreed to allow me to use on my own website or blog after three months and not on facebook, written on the contract as an addendum. Also the contract specifically said second shooter is to shoot full res raw and deliver the raw images within 24hr. I brought my 5d3, used his CF cards and my SD cards and recorded each images on both. At the end of the day, handed over his CF cards and went home.

I liked how it worked out.