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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Performing Arts Talk 
Thread started 24 Feb 2014 (Monday) 12:32
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Licensing advice

 
frantic-inc
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Feb 24, 2014 12:32 |  #1

Looking for some advice here.

I shoot for a music webzine who sort out passes for shows for me and then put the pics up with their watermark on. This is an unpaid job as a lot of similar sites seem to be. They stipulate that I can only use my photos on my website or FB page, that they have got me a pass for if the watermark stays on the photo.

I shot a show in London last week and the band have contacted me to discuss usage. I have emailed the webzine to clarify what I can do.

This was their response -

"How very exciting!

Basically, we're happy to license photos for use, but it'll be our office here that deals with details etc.

We offer 50% to the photographer of all money paid for licensing photographs.

The best way to do it is for you to let us know exactly how much you'd want were we to license them, and to pass our email address over to the ********* guys, and we'll negotiate from there.

Thanks so much, and nicely done! "

Anyone had similar a situation?


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narlus
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Feb 24, 2014 15:59 |  #2

screw that...if they aren't paying you, they don't get 50% licensing fee for photo usage.


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frantic-inc
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Feb 24, 2014 16:18 |  #3

That's what I guessed. They state 'they'll' be licensing the photos. I thought only I could do that with MY photos.

How do you think I should reply?


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narlus
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Feb 25, 2014 08:10 |  #4

well, i guess this part gives me pause:

They stipulate that I can only use my photos on my website or FB page

did you sign something?


if so, i would cut losses and just move on from working w/ them. that contract is ridiculous.


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RichSoansPhotos
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Feb 25, 2014 09:05 |  #5
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frantic-inc wrote in post #16713701 (external link)
Looking for some advice here.

I shoot for a music webzine who sort out passes for shows for me and then put the pics up with their watermark on. This is an unpaid job as a lot of similar sites seem to be. They stipulate that I can only use my photos on my website or FB page, that they have got me a pass for if the watermark stays on the photo.

I shot a show in London last week and the band have contacted me to discuss usage. I have emailed the webzine to clarify what I can do.

This was their response -

"How very exciting!

Basically, we're happy to license photos for use, but it'll be our office here that deals with details etc.

We offer 50% to the photographer of all money paid for licensing photographs.

The best way to do it is for you to let us know exactly how much you'd want were we to license them, and to pass our email address over to the ********* guys, and we'll negotiate from there.

Thanks so much, and nicely done! "

Anyone had similar a situation?

Pfft, if they don't pay you, they don't own the copyright, just because they sort out the passes for you doesn't mean it's payment in the form of cash payment

Plus, will they tell you when a photo is sold on license? To be honest, I doubt if they will, I suggest you deal with the licensing yourself
This is only a guide, so you have to set the licensing details yourself
http://www.photoassist​.co.uk/fullarticle.asp​?ano=1161 (external link)




  
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narlus
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Feb 25, 2014 09:22 |  #6

RichSoansPhotos wrote in post #16716005 (external link)
Pfft, if they don't pay you, they don't own the copyright, just because they sort out the passes for you doesn't mean it's payment in the form of cash payment

it really depends on what sort of contract (if any) he signed w/ the publication.


pay is irrelevant in this case, like copyright-grabbing releases that offer no compensation. if the photographer signs it, well - it's pretty cut and dried at that point.


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JasonMK
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Feb 25, 2014 09:34 |  #7

^^^, I'm not a lawyer, but that seems to be the case. If there is a contract, then what ever it states will govern these photos. If there was agreement, then seems to me that the photos would belong to the photographer.


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frantic-inc
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Feb 25, 2014 10:28 as a reply to  @ JasonMK's post |  #8

There was no contract signed. All discussion was via email. They asked that all photos taken with a pass that they obtained for me would need to carry their watermark at all times. No mention of a course of action if a band wanted to license the photos. I admit I was slightly niave due to only recently breaking into the scene but I always new that copyright remained with myself unless I had signed it over.
As it is, I'm waiting to hear back from the band after stating that they would have to pay up to use the photos.


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reavesce
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Feb 25, 2014 21:02 |  #9

I would pass on this ridiculous mess. I was contacted by 500px last week (as were thousands of other photographers) about a licensing deal. I agreed to license about 6 of my images. Seeing as I'm not a full-time pro, it's a great set up for me. But I only get 30%. But like I said, I'm not out promoting my images like you.

Go with your gut on this one. Passes or not, music shoots aren't the easiest thing in the world. You spend your time, money and gear to get great images, and I wouldn't let them pass for less than professional grade (i.e. cha-ching).




  
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90c4
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Feb 26, 2014 11:50 |  #10

I agree with the above. First, technically you do have a contract - albeit a crappy one. It's a contract because there's consideration; in exchange for sorting out a photo pass, you agree to using their watermark. My advice is to first, never agree to such an exchange again and change your current arrangement with this outfit, and second, license the image and include a tiny and almost fully transparent version of their watermark so slight that it's only visible at 100% resolution. Unless they included specifics of how the watermark should appear, you technically haven't violated your agreement and it won't make sense for them to go after you.


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xchangx
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Feb 27, 2014 08:09 |  #11

frantic-inc wrote in post #16716257 (external link)
There was no contract signed. All discussion was via email. They asked that all photos taken with a pass that they obtained for me would need to carry their watermark at all times. No mention of a course of action if a band wanted to license the photos. I admit I was slightly niave due to only recently breaking into the scene but I always new that copyright remained with myself unless I had signed it over.
As it is, I'm waiting to hear back from the band after stating that they would have to pay up to use the photos.

In your email discussion was copyright ever discussed? Just because they want their watermark on the image does not mean you hand over the copyright.

But like others said, I would pass on this. They are aware now that the band wants to license the image so if you say screw it and license it to the band then it will stir things up.

But you may want to be clear with them and even draft a contract.


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hairy_moth
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Feb 27, 2014 08:24 |  #12

I suspect you will find that when you accepted their tickets, you accepted the terms by which the tickets were provided; whether or not you physically signed a contract. When I go skiing, there are conditions printed on the back of the lift ticket; I never sign a contract; but failure to abide by those conditions gives them the right to pull my ticket (even though I might think I have the right to ski the entire day or get my money back).

You could take a chance: the magazine may never find the shots, or may never take action if they do; but my guess is that you have already revealed your hand and they will be watching and they will successfully sue if you sell the shots.

Not wanting to let the scumbags profit from my work; I would contact the band and arrange to shoot another gig for them (they too can probably get you free tickets).

I suspect you still own the copyright of the original shots, though there are stipulations on how you can use them. Likewise, the magazine cannot use your shots in any way that was not mentioned in your agreement; they can't sell them either.

Don't take this as a defeat, the shoot that you did for the magazine did get you noticed and has opened a door for you; a door that is difficult to open! The scumbag is correct "this is exciting;" but do it on your terms, while making sure you don't violate your (implicit) agreement with the magazine.


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frantic-inc
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Mar 01, 2014 08:46 |  #13

Just an update on this. The band got back to me saying they weren't wishing to use the photos for commercial gain. They wanted to use them in their photo gallery on their website and Facebook page.
I'm Ok with fb sharing as long as watermark is intact but should I be expecting compensation for them using on their website? Anyone got any thoughts on rates for this?


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sspellman
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Mar 04, 2014 05:16 |  #14

To be very clear, EVERY use of the photos by the band is for "commercial gain" even if it is not "advertising". The band is in the business to be successful and sell lots of tickets and merchandise. If it has no benefit to them, they wouldn't care about using the photos. If the band wants to use the images on their FB and Website, I would offer them a website and social media only license for €50 for 2 years. If the band does not agree to some price, they are clearly telling you the images are worth zero to them.

Also, since the Webzine has a policy of negotiating licensing deals for photos it obtained the passes, you will now have to decide if you will get passes for them in the future. Your verbal agreement is shaky and not entirely clear, but you will have to choose if you are now going to end the terms. The Webzine actually may offer some value to you if they provide a solid image licensing agreement. Otherwise, you will need to pay a lawyer to offer a licensing agreement on your own.

-Scott


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JasonMK
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Mar 06, 2014 13:12 |  #15

I know, a little off topic, but help me understand the benefit of getting a free pass to take photos for a company that (1) isn't paying you and (2) won't let you sell your photos. Are you doing this for fun or to get free admission to shows? Photography is a hobby for me, so I'd likely shoot a concert for free, but I would still want to be able to retain the rights to my own work.


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