Do you think Canon will respond to the Nikon D800?

I understand your perspective. And while I dont think anyone in this thread has gotten particularly belligerent about it, it always ends up with the dynamic range gang trying to tell the canon gang that they need more dynamic range. Sometimes it gets pretty annoying. Even though fundamentally its all true from a tech perspective. I have messed with an A7R file and its f'ing beautiful. I also know that chasing tech is expensive, and I know that at some point Canon will be the king again, and roles will be reversed. Then Nikon/Sony will come out and trump Canon yet again..the cycle continues

gnome chompski wrote in post #16737221
No, I get that. Im just observing. It seems that it always boils down to someone telling someone else that a sensor with more dynamic range is better, even though the person suggesting that is not the one using it. Like me telling you to drive a Honda because I drive a Honda and I find them better than Toyota.

But I can say that a sensor with more DR is better. That doesn't mean I'm willing to take the cost of buying a Nokia or Sony camera. So I'll have to make do with what I have until I find an acceptable economic route to get a camera with better dynamic range.

There are a number of things i can't do with my 5D2 because of banding - things that a Nikon or Sony camera would be capable of.

You really do need to remember that we are talking about a full ecosystem. It's way easier to switch to another brand of car than it is to switch to a different brand of cameras.

gnome chompski wrote in post #16737323
I understand your perspective. And while I dont think anyone in this thread has gotten particularly belligerent about it, it always ends up with the dynamic range gang trying to tell the canon gang that they need more dynamic range.

But the annoying thing is that people can't realize that there are different needs.

Right now, Canon falls short for a specific group of shooters. There are no high-resolution bodies. There are no high-DR bodies. There just are no Canon options available when you have that need.

Then a rather large number of people comes jumping in, telling "but all who make money with their 1Dx or 5D3 or ...?" totally failing to notice the difference in needs. It's totally irrelevant how well a 5D3 is satisfying x number of owners, when they just do not need the extra DR - they are not representative of the users who do the type of photography where extra resolution or extra DR do matter.

Hogloff wrote in post #16736128
Lately, last couple years, their revenue and profits have been heading in the wrong direction. Their forecast for this year is more the same, losing revenue and profits. Does not matter if they have better numbers than Sony...it's the Canon shareholders that are concerned about Canon, not Sony.

This might be of use to you understand more fully what the situation actually is:

http://www.dpreview.co​m …edium=text&ref=​title_0_23

In particular please note the statement:

"Although none of these figures sound positive, IDC's research led it to conclude: ""Canon managed to gain share in the United States at the expense of nearly all other vendors with the exception of Sony, which gained a slight share in the ILC segment.""

True that same segment on Canon notes declining ILC sales, but notice the overall outcome. Sony is probably somewhat flummoxed that it has not dominated the market and driven Nikon and Canon into obscurity. I wonder why that is?

ERJL wrote in post #16737437
This might be of use to you understand more fully what the situation actually is:

http://www.dpreview.co​m …edium=text&ref=​title_0_23

In particular please note the statement:

"Although none of these figures sound positive, IDC's research led it to conclude: ""Canon managed to gain share in the United States at the expense of nearly all other vendors with the exception of Sony, which gained a slight share in the ILC segment.""

True that same segment on Canon notes declining ILC sales, but notice the overall outcome. Sony is probably somewhat flummoxed that it has not dominated the market and driven Nikon and Canon into obscurity. I wonder why that is?

Fanbois and the great marketing drive behind Canon. If you want to look popular, you go with the trend...that does not mean it is the best system...just the most popular.

In either case, declining revenue the past two years and predicted the same this year is not good for Canon, nor any camera manufacturer.

I"d buy a D800 in an instant if I had the extra cash.

gnome chompski wrote in post #16737323
I understand your perspective. And while I dont think anyone in this thread has gotten particularly belligerent about it, it always ends up with the dynamic range gang trying to tell the canon gang that they need more dynamic range. Sometimes it gets pretty annoying. Even though fundamentally its all true from a tech perspective. I have messed with an A7R file and its f'ing beautiful. I also know that chasing tech is expensive, and I know that at some point Canon will be the king again, and roles will be reversed. Then Nikon/Sony will come out and trump Canon yet again..the cycle continues

With all due respect, it's not the DR gang trying to tell the Canon gang that they need more DR. It's some current Canon shooters (me included) telling Canon its needs to have more DR. I understand some people want it, some don't care, fair enough.

Switching is a pain when you are heavily invested in Canon lenses. I made a mini switch yesterday, swapping out my 6D and two L lenses for a Nikon D610 and two of their lenses. I wouldn't have made the move if Canon had a sensor like the D610's or if I had seen any signs Canon will come up with a similar or better sensor anytime soon. To me Canon has placed more emphasis on video. I know many people don't need more DR (but I bet they won't say no if it's there) but I want it, as simple as that. I am now 1/3 Nikon, still 2/3 Canon if you care to look at my signature.

It's great for the consumers when competition is strong. Give Sony a few year when its lens system is more complete. Maybe Canon has something up in its sleeve that we don't know. I am all for it.

Kolor-Pikker wrote in post #16736237
...

This dilemma only matters to anyone who can't afford to own two cameras.

Totally agree

My gear:

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/x_tan/101664259​13/

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/x_tan/113623533​03/

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/x_tan/122473799​83/

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/x_tan/112645826​34/

kdrk888 wrote in post #16737695
With all due respect, it's not the DR gang trying to tell the Canon gang that they need more DR. It's some current Canon shooters (me included) telling Canon its needs to have more DR. I understand some people want it, some don't care, fair enough.

Switching is a pain when you are heavily invested in Canon lenses. I made a mini switch yesterday, swapping out my 6D and two L lenses for a Nikon D610 and two of their lenses. I wouldn't have made the move if Canon had a sensor like the D610's or if I had seen any signs Canon will come up with a similar or better sensor anytime soon. To me Canon has placed more emphasis on video. I know many people don't need more DR (but I bet they won't say no if it's there) but I want it, as simple as that. I am now 1/3 Nikon, still 2/3 Canon if you care to look at my signature.

It's great for the consumers when competition is strong. Give Sony a few year when its lens system is more complete. Maybe Canon has something up in its sleeve that we don't know. I am all for it.

+1

It is absurd that many of us that rely on our Canon cameras, but want a better sensor, are castigated as the "DR Gang" vs the Canon gang. If the "DR gang" are called such because they point out sensor shortcomings then what is the "Canon gang"? Apparently, they're people who oppose calling out Canon shortcomings. That is Koolaid-drinking fanboyism.

I do agree with Gnome on this regard: the DR discussions are indeed wearisome. I guess this Canon fan is solidly in the "DR gang", but I too get tired of the subject being endlessly discussed and argued. But, that's a great reason why the "Canon fanboy gang" ought to join the "DR gang" pressuring Canon into giving us 14-15 stop zero-pattern noise sensor: it will make the "DR gang" shut up and go away (I'm gonna need those megapixels too though).

David Arbogast wrote in post #16737772
+1

It is absurd that many of us that rely on our Canon cameras, but want a better sensor, are castigated as the "DR Gang" vs the Canon gang. If the "DR gang" are called such because they point out sensor shirtcomings then what is the "Canon gang"? Apparently, they're people who oppose calling out Canon shortcomings. That is Koolaid-drinking fanboyism.

I do agree with Gnome on this regard: the DR discussions are indeed wearisome. I guess this Canon fan is solidly in the "DR gang", but I too get tired of the subject being endlessly discussed and argued. But, that's a great reason why the "Canon fanboy gang" ought to join the "DR gang" pressuring Canon into giving us 14-15 stop zero-pattern noise sensor: it will make the "DR gang" shut up and go away (I'm gonna need those megapixels too though).

all I was saying is that this argument that comes up over and over again is pointless. And yes, its the same group of people bickering about the dynamic range issue. I get it. I know Canon is lagging. Doesnt mean I need it shoved down my throat every few weeks when these threads pop up.

A camera is more than just a sensor. It also about ISO performance, AF system, color rendering, functions, ergonomics, available lens etc... So yeah, Nikon has a better sensor but the rest is average to be quite honest. Give me an Canon body with Sony Exeview sensor and i'll be the first in line.

The grass is always greener

Howmany D800 vs canon threads are there already? I thought the horse has been thoroughly beaten

gnome chompski wrote in post #16737830
all I was saying is that this argument that comes up over and over again is pointless. And yes, its the same group of people bickering about the dynamic range issue. I get it. I know Canon is lagging. Doesnt mean I need it shoved down my throat every few weeks when these threads pop up.

I'm really with you on that count...it does get annoyingly repetitive.

fogboundturtle wrote in post #16737839
A camera is more than just a sensor. It also about ISO performance, AF system, color rendering, functions, ergonomics, available lens etc... So yeah, Nikon has a better sensor but the rest is average to be quite honest. Give me an Canon body with Sony Exeview sensor and i'll be the first in line.

Well said again.

If DR gang needs DR for their scapes, switch to Nikon by all means, or just add an A7/A7R?

Different camera system has different strengths, you just have to pick the one that is best suited for your needs.

Everyone wants the best of both world, sorry to burst your bubbles that will never happen like most things in life

kin2son wrote in post #16737855
Well said again.

If DR gang needs DR for their scapes, switch to Nikon by all means, or just a an A7/A7R?

Different camera system has different strengths, you just have to pick the one that is best suited for your needs.

Everyone wants the best of both world, sorry to burst your bubbles that will never happen like most things in life

Like I've stated before, part of the quandary lies in the fact that Canon developed two spectacular TS-E lenses perfectly suited for architecture and "scapes". So, to your point, you have to pick a system. All things considered I prefer the Canon system in large part on account of those excellent TS-E lenses.