Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 04 Mar 2014 (Tuesday) 02:53
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Do you think Canon will respond to the Nikon D800?

 
gnome ­ chompski
Goldmember
1,252 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 135
Joined Jun 2013
Location: oakland, ca
     
Mar 05, 2014 18:29 |  #76

I understand your perspective. And while I dont think anyone in this thread has gotten particularly belligerent about it, it always ends up with the dynamic range gang trying to tell the canon gang that they need more dynamic range. Sometimes it gets pretty annoying. Even though fundamentally its all true from a tech perspective. I have messed with an A7R file and its f'ing beautiful. I also know that chasing tech is expensive, and I know that at some point Canon will be the king again, and roles will be reversed. Then Nikon/Sony will come out and trump Canon yet again..the cycle continues


Tumblr (external link)
Flickr (external link)
Instagram (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
pwm2
"Sorry for being a noob"
Avatar
8,626 posts
Likes: 2
Joined May 2007
Location: Sweden
     
Mar 05, 2014 18:44 |  #77

gnome chompski wrote in post #16737221 (external link)
No, I get that. Im just observing. It seems that it always boils down to someone telling someone else that a sensor with more dynamic range is better, even though the person suggesting that is not the one using it. Like me telling you to drive a Honda because I drive a Honda and I find them better than Toyota.

But I can say that a sensor with more DR is better. That doesn't mean I'm willing to take the cost of buying a Nokia or Sony camera. So I'll have to make do with what I have until I find an acceptable economic route to get a camera with better dynamic range.

There are a number of things i can't do with my 5D2 because of banding - things that a Nikon or Sony camera would be capable of.

You really do need to remember that we are talking about a full ecosystem. It's way easier to switch to another brand of car than it is to switch to a different brand of cameras.


5DMk2 + BG-E6 | 40D + BG-E2N | 350D + BG-E3 + RC-1 | Elan 7E | Minolta Dimage 7U | (Gear thread)
10-22 | 16-35/2.8 L II | 20-35 | 24-105 L IS | 28-135 IS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.8 II | 70-200/2.8 L IS | 100/2.8 L IS | 100-400 L IS | Sigma 18-200DC
Speedlite 420EZ | Speedlite 580EX | EF 1.4x II | EF 2x II

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
pwm2
"Sorry for being a noob"
Avatar
8,626 posts
Likes: 2
Joined May 2007
Location: Sweden
     
Mar 05, 2014 18:47 |  #78

gnome chompski wrote in post #16737323 (external link)
I understand your perspective. And while I dont think anyone in this thread has gotten particularly belligerent about it, it always ends up with the dynamic range gang trying to tell the canon gang that they need more dynamic range.

But the annoying thing is that people can't realize that there are different needs.

Right now, Canon falls short for a specific group of shooters. There are no high-resolution bodies. There are no high-DR bodies. There just are no Canon options available when you have that need.

Then a rather large number of people comes jumping in, telling "but all who make money with their 1Dx or 5D3 or ...?" totally failing to notice the difference in needs. It's totally irrelevant how well a 5D3 is satisfying x number of owners, when they just do not need the extra DR - they are not representative of the users who do the type of photography where extra resolution or extra DR do matter.


5DMk2 + BG-E6 | 40D + BG-E2N | 350D + BG-E3 + RC-1 | Elan 7E | Minolta Dimage 7U | (Gear thread)
10-22 | 16-35/2.8 L II | 20-35 | 24-105 L IS | 28-135 IS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.8 II | 70-200/2.8 L IS | 100/2.8 L IS | 100-400 L IS | Sigma 18-200DC
Speedlite 420EZ | Speedlite 580EX | EF 1.4x II | EF 2x II

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
ERJL
Senior Member
Avatar
384 posts
Joined Dec 2012
Location: Sacramento, CA
     
Mar 05, 2014 19:16 |  #79
bannedPermanent ban

Hogloff wrote in post #16736128 (external link)
Lately, last couple years, their revenue and profits have been heading in the wrong direction. Their forecast for this year is more the same, losing revenue and profits. Does not matter if they have better numbers than Sony...it's the Canon shareholders that are concerned about Canon, not Sony.

This might be of use to you understand more fully what the situation actually is:

http://www.dpreview.co​m …edium=text&ref=​title_0_23 (external link)

In particular please note the statement:

"Although none of these figures sound positive, IDC's research led it to conclude: ""Canon managed to gain share in the United States at the expense of nearly all other vendors with the exception of Sony, which gained a slight share in the ILC segment.""

True that same segment on Canon notes declining ILC sales, but notice the overall outcome. Sony is probably somewhat flummoxed that it has not dominated the market and driven Nikon and Canon into obscurity. I wonder why that is?


-ERJL

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Hogloff
Cream of the Crop
7,582 posts
Likes: 405
Joined Apr 2003
Location: British Columbia
     
Mar 05, 2014 19:46 |  #80

ERJL wrote in post #16737437 (external link)
This might be of use to you understand more fully what the situation actually is:

http://www.dpreview.co​m …edium=text&ref=​title_0_23 (external link)

In particular please note the statement:

"Although none of these figures sound positive, IDC's research led it to conclude: ""Canon managed to gain share in the United States at the expense of nearly all other vendors with the exception of Sony, which gained a slight share in the ILC segment.""

True that same segment on Canon notes declining ILC sales, but notice the overall outcome. Sony is probably somewhat flummoxed that it has not dominated the market and driven Nikon and Canon into obscurity. I wonder why that is?

Fanbois and the great marketing drive behind Canon. If you want to look popular, you go with the trend...that does not mean it is the best system...just the most popular.

In either case, declining revenue the past two years and predicted the same this year is not good for Canon, nor any camera manufacturer.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
scpictaker
Goldmember
Avatar
1,385 posts
Likes: 7
Joined Feb 2009
Location: Edgerton Wis
     
Mar 05, 2014 21:05 |  #81

I"d buy a D800 in an instant if I had the extra cash.


My Flickr (external link)
Canon 5D MKIII l 7D MKII l 24-105L l 16-35 L II l Sigma 50 1.4 ART l 70-200 2.8 L II l 24-70L l EOS M l 2X III l Rok 14mm

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
kdrk888
Senior Member
Avatar
404 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Mar 2010
Location: Maryland, USA
     
Mar 05, 2014 21:21 |  #82

gnome chompski wrote in post #16737323 (external link)
I understand your perspective. And while I dont think anyone in this thread has gotten particularly belligerent about it, it always ends up with the dynamic range gang trying to tell the canon gang that they need more dynamic range. Sometimes it gets pretty annoying. Even though fundamentally its all true from a tech perspective. I have messed with an A7R file and its f'ing beautiful. I also know that chasing tech is expensive, and I know that at some point Canon will be the king again, and roles will be reversed. Then Nikon/Sony will come out and trump Canon yet again..the cycle continues

With all due respect, it's not the DR gang trying to tell the Canon gang that they need more DR. It's some current Canon shooters (me included) telling Canon its needs to have more DR. I understand some people want it, some don't care, fair enough.

Switching is a pain when you are heavily invested in Canon lenses. I made a mini switch yesterday, swapping out my 6D and two L lenses for a Nikon D610 and two of their lenses. I wouldn't have made the move if Canon had a sensor like the D610's or if I had seen any signs Canon will come up with a similar or better sensor anytime soon. To me Canon has placed more emphasis on video. I know many people don't need more DR (but I bet they won't say no if it's there) but I want it, as simple as that. I am now 1/3 Nikon, still 2/3 Canon if you care to look at my signature.

It's great for the consumers when competition is strong. Give Sony a few year when its lens system is more complete. Maybe Canon has something up in its sleeve that we don't know. I am all for it.


Douglas
Canon, Nikon, Sony. Too many gears, too little time.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
x_tan
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
8,131 posts
Gallery: 137 photos
Best ofs: 3
Likes: 331
Joined Sep 2010
Location: ɐılɐɹʇsnɐ 'ǝuɹnoqlǝɯ
     
Mar 05, 2014 21:37 |  #83

Kolor-Pikker wrote in post #16736237 (external link)
...

This dilemma only matters to anyone who can't afford to own two cameras.

Totally agree :)

My gear:

IMAGE: https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2891/10166425913_45bf0a7052_z.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/x_tan/101664259​13/  (external link)
5D3 + 85L II (external link) by x_tan (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3708/11362353303_ce77ece335_z.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/x_tan/113623533​03/  (external link)
Humble Zeiss 1.4/50, ? Bully Zeiss 1.4/35 (external link) by x_tan (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3814/12247379983_666635bd84_z.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/x_tan/122473799​83/  (external link)
Nikon F3 & Zeiss Planar T* 1.4/50 ZF.2 (external link) by x_tan (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3695/11264582634_1543e0da5f_z.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/x_tan/112645826​34/  (external link)
Carl Zeiss Planar T* 1.4/50 ZF.2 (external link) by x_tan (external link), on Flickr

If Fujifilm make an even better FF mirrorless, I get one, too :lol:

Canon 5D3 + Zoom (EF 17-40L, 24-105L & 28-300L, 100-400L II) & Prime (24L II, 85L II, 100L, 135L & 200 f/2.8L II; Zeiss 1,4/35)
Sony α7r + Zeiss 1,8/55 FE
Nikon Coolpix A; Nikon F3 & F100 + Zeiss 1,4/50
Retiring  (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
David ­ Arbogast
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
10,730 posts
Gallery: 35 photos
Likes: 6678
Joined Aug 2010
Location: West Point, Georgia
     
Mar 05, 2014 21:52 |  #84

kdrk888 wrote in post #16737695 (external link)
With all due respect, it's not the DR gang trying to tell the Canon gang that they need more DR. It's some current Canon shooters (me included) telling Canon its needs to have more DR. I understand some people want it, some don't care, fair enough.

Switching is a pain when you are heavily invested in Canon lenses. I made a mini switch yesterday, swapping out my 6D and two L lenses for a Nikon D610 and two of their lenses. I wouldn't have made the move if Canon had a sensor like the D610's or if I had seen any signs Canon will come up with a similar or better sensor anytime soon. To me Canon has placed more emphasis on video. I know many people don't need more DR (but I bet they won't say no if it's there) but I want it, as simple as that. I am now 1/3 Nikon, still 2/3 Canon if you care to look at my signature.

It's great for the consumers when competition is strong. Give Sony a few year when its lens system is more complete. Maybe Canon has something up in its sleeve that we don't know. I am all for it.

+1

It is absurd that many of us that rely on our Canon cameras, but want a better sensor, are castigated as the "DR Gang" vs the Canon gang. If the "DR gang" are called such because they point out sensor shortcomings then what is the "Canon gang"? Apparently, they're people who oppose calling out Canon shortcomings. That is Koolaid-drinking fanboyism. ;)

I do agree with Gnome on this regard: the DR discussions are indeed wearisome. I guess this Canon fan is solidly in the "DR gang", but I too get tired of the subject being endlessly discussed and argued. But, that's a great reason why the "Canon fanboy gang" ought to join the "DR gang" pressuring Canon into giving us 14-15 stop zero-pattern noise sensor: it will make the "DR gang" shut up and go away (I'm gonna need those megapixels too though). :lol:


David | Flickr (external link)
Sony α7R II | CV 12mm, Loxia 21mm, Loxia 35mm, Batis 85mm, Batis 135mm

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gnome ­ chompski
Goldmember
1,252 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 135
Joined Jun 2013
Location: oakland, ca
     
Mar 05, 2014 22:42 |  #85

David Arbogast wrote in post #16737772 (external link)
+1

It is absurd that many of us that rely on our Canon cameras, but want a better sensor, are castigated as the "DR Gang" vs the Canon gang. If the "DR gang" are called such because they point out sensor shirtcomings then what is the "Canon gang"? Apparently, they're people who oppose calling out Canon shortcomings. That is Koolaid-drinking fanboyism. ;)

I do agree with Gnome on this regard: the DR discussions are indeed wearisome. I guess this Canon fan is solidly in the "DR gang", but I too get tired of the subject being endlessly discussed and argued. But, that's a great reason why the "Canon fanboy gang" ought to join the "DR gang" pressuring Canon into giving us 14-15 stop zero-pattern noise sensor: it will make the "DR gang" shut up and go away (I'm gonna need those megapixels too though). :lol:

all I was saying is that this argument that comes up over and over again is pointless. And yes, its the same group of people bickering about the dynamic range issue. I get it. I know Canon is lagging. Doesnt mean I need it shoved down my throat every few weeks when these threads pop up.


Tumblr (external link)
Flickr (external link)
Instagram (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
fogboundturtle
Senior Member
735 posts
Likes: 36
Joined Mar 2010
     
Mar 05, 2014 22:48 |  #86

A camera is more than just a sensor. It also about ISO performance, AF system, color rendering, functions, ergonomics, available lens etc... So yeah, Nikon has a better sensor but the rest is average to be quite honest. Give me an Canon body with Sony Exeview sensor and i'll be the first in line.


Canon 5D Mark III, Canon 70D, Canon EF 24-105L, Tamron 150-600mm, Tamron 70-200 F2.8 DI VC USD, Sony A7r, Sony FE 55mm F1.8

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
panicatnabisco
Senior Member
Avatar
964 posts
Gallery: 33 photos
Likes: 303
Joined Apr 2012
Location: san francisco, CA
     
Mar 05, 2014 22:50 |  #87

The grass is always greener

Howmany D800 vs canon threads are there already? I thought the horse has been thoroughly beaten


Canon 1DX | 6D | 16-35/2.8II | 24/1.4II | 24-70/2.8II | 24-105 | 50/1.8 | 50/1.2 | 70-200/2.8 IS II | 85/1.2II | 100/2.8 IS macro | 400/2.8 IS | 2xIII
Leica M8.2 | Noctilux 50 f/1 | Elmarit 90/2.8 Cinema BMD Ursa Mini 4k
afimages.net (external link) | Facebook (external link) | flickr (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
David ­ Arbogast
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
10,730 posts
Gallery: 35 photos
Likes: 6678
Joined Aug 2010
Location: West Point, Georgia
     
Mar 05, 2014 22:52 |  #88

gnome chompski wrote in post #16737830 (external link)
all I was saying is that this argument that comes up over and over again is pointless. And yes, its the same group of people bickering about the dynamic range issue. I get it. I know Canon is lagging. Doesnt mean I need it shoved down my throat every few weeks when these threads pop up.

I'm really with you on that count...it does get annoyingly repetitive. :)


David | Flickr (external link)
Sony α7R II | CV 12mm, Loxia 21mm, Loxia 35mm, Batis 85mm, Batis 135mm

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
kin2son
Goldmember
4,546 posts
Likes: 3
Joined May 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
     
Mar 05, 2014 22:55 |  #89
bannedPermanent ban

fogboundturtle wrote in post #16737839 (external link)
A camera is more than just a sensor. It also about ISO performance, AF system, color rendering, functions, ergonomics, available lens etc... So yeah, Nikon has a better sensor but the rest is average to be quite honest. Give me an Canon body with Sony Exeview sensor and i'll be the first in line.

Well said again.

If DR gang needs DR for their scapes, switch to Nikon by all means, or just add an A7/A7R?

Different camera system has different strengths, you just have to pick the one that is best suited for your needs.

Everyone wants the best of both world, sorry to burst your bubbles that will never happen like most things in life ;)


5D3 Gripped / 17-40L / Σ35 / 40 Pancake / Zeiss 50 MP / Σ85 / 100L Macro / 70-200 f2.8L II IS / 430 EX II / 580 EX II / Canon 2xIII TC / Kenko Ext. Tubes
EOS M / EF-M 18-55 / EF-M 22f2 / Ricoh GR aka Ultimate street camera :p
Flickr (external link) | My Images on Getty®‎ (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
David ­ Arbogast
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
10,730 posts
Gallery: 35 photos
Likes: 6678
Joined Aug 2010
Location: West Point, Georgia
     
Mar 05, 2014 23:11 |  #90

kin2son wrote in post #16737855 (external link)
Well said again.

If DR gang needs DR for their scapes, switch to Nikon by all means, or just a an A7/A7R?

Different camera system has different strengths, you just have to pick the one that is best suited for your needs.

Everyone wants the best of both world, sorry to burst your bubbles that will never happen like most things in life ;)

Like I've stated before, part of the quandary lies in the fact that Canon developed two spectacular TS-E lenses perfectly suited for architecture and "scapes". So, to your point, you have to pick a system. All things considered I prefer the Canon system in large part on account of those excellent TS-E lenses. :)


David | Flickr (external link)
Sony α7R II | CV 12mm, Loxia 21mm, Loxia 35mm, Batis 85mm, Batis 135mm

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

13,536 views & 0 likes for this thread
Do you think Canon will respond to the Nikon D800?
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Jo Spiby Laidlaw
708 guests, 386 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 6430, that happened on Dec 03, 2017

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.