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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Nature & Landscapes Talk 
Thread started 28 Jan 2014 (Tuesday) 19:57
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Why I moved from the Canon 6D to the Sony a7R

 
grahamclarkphoto
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Feb 11, 2014 20:05 |  #31

maverick75 wrote in post #16682317 (external link)
I'm also heading to the Sony camp, after playing around with a NEX-F3 and NEX-FS100.

Although this is BS in my book, the 35mm chip is still 35mm, not 645 or 6x6.

Even with almost 40 megapixels it doesn't change the size of the chip.

I'd rather have a real MF back with 6MP, than a 80 megapixel 35mm camera.

If you want to get into the details you may change your mind: http://echophoto.dnsal​ias.net …ourney-summing-up?start=6 (external link)


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ptcanon3ti
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Feb 11, 2014 20:22 |  #32

Graham, how are you liking the Sony with Canon lenses so far?

I'm looking at moving to FF and was really deciding on a 6D. BUT the Sony sensors are really the state of the art at this point. I love your work...I took a peek at your website. :)


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grahamclarkphoto
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Feb 11, 2014 22:03 |  #33

ptcanon3ti wrote in post #16682385 (external link)
Graham, how are you liking the Sony with Canon lenses so far?

I'm looking at moving to FF and was really deciding on a 6D. BUT the Sony sensors are really the state of the art at this point. I love your work...I took a peek at your website. :)

I'm really liking it quite a lot. Performance with EF lenses is great. Autofocus performs as it does on my 5D3 and 6D with Live View AF. Image stabilization is performing identically as on my Canon SLRs, so that in and of itself is worth it for me in buying the EF adapter with the electronics to pass that through.

In short, no issues yet. Images are tack sharp on all four quadrants consistently.

Check out my field notes here:

http://grahamclarkphot​o.com …tes-with-canon-ef-lenses/ (external link)

Just updated it today:

- Composing and obtaining accurate focus through the EVF works quite well (better than LCD)
- Focus peaking works very well under normal daylight conditions with high contrast
- Focus peaking on the A7R doesn't work so well under low lighting situations
- Shooting handheld on the street autofocus is too sluggish, much like the autofocus on the Canon and Nikon DSLRs
- Using manual focus handheld with focus peaking is a very fast way of achieving a fast focus lock
- The control layout is excellent
- The Sony A7R construction quality is very high, very comfortable to shoot with
- Shooting with the Sony A7R with the Canon 40mm 2.8 lens is awesome
- It's more difficult to detect polarizer on/off with EVF than with OVF
- Sharpness and quality of images is, upon first impression, very high indeed
- The A7R magnifies images at 7x or 14x, however with video only 4x... ?
- Video on the A7R only goes as low as 200... ?
- Just noticed there was a red memory read/write light. Why does this stay off when the camera is exposing?
- Dual mic inputs on either side of the hotshoe provide significantly better stereo than the Canon SLRs
- Menu button justified on top left wasn't placed intelligently. If it was on the right all the controls would be available from the shooting hand. Underneath the EV dial would be a logical location.
- Haven't used the swivel LCD once. If I had it my way it would be embedded into the backside of the camera, like the 5D3 and 6D. It would increase the durability and decrease the breakpoints.
- The menu system and image playback is significantly faster than the 5D3/6D, even with the same SD card in both.
- The LCD and EVF brightness, even at +2 (maximum) isn't very bright. Would be nice to have a +5 option
- The electronic level has a significantly greater level threshold than the 5D3/6D. Four tripod head knob turns still has it in the green. One micro turn of the 5D3/6D would move it form red to green. Seems like camera manufacturers should standardize this stuff, or allow user adjustable threshold values.
- Again, very impressed with construction quality of the A7R. Very durable and it has a great weight and balance.

IMAGE: http://www.grahamclarkphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Sony-A7R-long-exposure-with-Canon-17-40.jpg

Click here to download the .ARW + .TIFF (external link)

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Tom ­ Reichner
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Feb 12, 2014 16:25 |  #34

grahamclarkphoto wrote in post #16658622 (external link)
But the number one thing for me is image quality

grahamclarkphoto wrote in post #16647907 (external link)
I won't be getting any Sony/Zeiss lenses, only using Canon EF lenses.

These two statements appear, on the surface, to be somewhat contradictory to one another. But then again, I have no first-hand experience with Zeiss lenses. They have a reputation for being better (with respect to resolving ability) than Canon's glass, at least in the shorter focal lengths that one normally associates with landscape photography.

So my question is, if image quality is of primary importance to you, and you choose to use Canon glass instead of Zeiss glass, do you think that the Canon lenses are, in fact, superior to Zeiss lenses, inasmuch as image quality is concerned?


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grahamclarkphoto
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Feb 12, 2014 16:32 |  #35

Tom Reichner wrote in post #16684623 (external link)
These two statements appear, on the surface, to be somewhat contradictory to one another. But then again, I have no first-hand experience with Zeiss lenses. They have a reputation for being better (with respect to resolving ability) than Canon's glass, at least in the shorter focal lengths that one normally associates with landscape photography.

So my question is, if image quality is of primary importance to you, and you choose to use Canon glass instead of Zeiss glass, do you think that the Canon lenses are, in fact, superior to Zeiss lenses, inasmuch as image quality is concerned?

hey Tom,

of the 4 zeiss lenses I own my Canon lenses are actually sharper than 3 of them, and have better CA control.

marketing of photography is powerful, but it's not reality.

send me a message and i'll email you original zeiss shot images, and you can see for yourself... : (

Graham


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grahamclarkphoto
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Feb 12, 2014 16:35 |  #36

Tom Reichner wrote in post #16684623 (external link)
These two statements appear, on the surface, to be somewhat contradictory to one another. But then again, I have no first-hand experience with Zeiss lenses. They have a reputation for being better (with respect to resolving ability) than Canon's glass, at least in the shorter focal lengths that one normally associates with landscape photography.

So my question is, if image quality is of primary importance to you, and you choose to use Canon glass instead of Zeiss glass, do you think that the Canon lenses are, in fact, superior to Zeiss lenses, inasmuch as image quality is concerned?

It's also important to note here that there are image quality characteristics that are separate from the lens. That's what this article is about, and it's what I mean to say when I'm specifically referring to image quality being better on one camera body as opposed to another. Not lens-specific image quality characteristics.

One thing at a time...


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SeattleSpeedster
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Feb 14, 2014 13:04 |  #37

I'm probably going to go the same way. Clearly with my gear selection I don't care about AF. I like this combo with older Contax Zeiss or Olympus Zuiko lenses especially. Right now I bracket pretty much everything since the DR is lacking in Canon's offerings, so the DR of the Sony should help that a bit.

Last summer I did three hikes for photos with more than 7000 feet of vertical climb. I wanted to bring the Zeiss 21 but its heft held me back. Right now this sounds like a nice combo:

a7r with contax zeiss 28mm and 50mm
gitzo 0540 with RRS 25

I plan on renting one for April, and hopefully by then used prices will have settled a few more hundred. Right now they are around $1900


Fuji GFX50s and A7R II | Zeiss 85mm f1.4 Otus and 28mm f1.4 Otus | Fuji GF23mm and 32-64mm | Canon 200mm f1.8 | Zeiss 100-300mm | Zeiss and Canon 16-35mm f4 | Zeiss 135mm f2 | Voigtlander 10mm f5.6 | Zeiss and Sony 50mm f1.4 | DJI Mavic Pro 2 and Inspire 2 X5S drones | https://mikereidphotog​raphy.com (external link)

  
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grahamclarkphoto
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Feb 17, 2014 19:16 |  #38

SeattleSpeedster wrote in post #16689384 (external link)
I'm probably going to go the same way. Clearly with my gear selection I don't care about AF. I like this combo with older Contax Zeiss or Olympus Zuiko lenses especially. Right now I bracket pretty much everything since the DR is lacking in Canon's offerings, so the DR of the Sony should help that a bit.

Last summer I did three hikes for photos with more than 7000 feet of vertical climb. I wanted to bring the Zeiss 21 but its heft held me back. Right now this sounds like a nice combo:

a7r with contax zeiss 28mm and 50mm
gitzo 0540 with RRS 25

I plan on renting one for April, and hopefully by then used prices will have settled a few more hundred. Right now they are around $1900

Nice! The Contax Zeiss 28mm looks like a good one.

Check out this tripod: http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …tion_foldable_c​arbon.html (external link)

It's one of the lightest Carbon's I've been able to find, but haven't used it until I got the A7R, which has afforded the ability to use lighter weight tripods, which is great : )


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Feb 17, 2014 19:25 as a reply to  @ grahamclarkphoto's post |  #39

IMAGE: http://www.grahamclarkphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Sony-A7R-Sunset-Long-Exposure-with-Canon-17-40mm.jpg
Rodeo Beach Sunset *| *276s *F22 *ISO 50 *17mm
Download the .ARW + .TIFF here (external link)

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andya147
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Feb 28, 2014 11:02 |  #40

ive got the 6d and have done a lot of tests with zeiss ze vs canon etc..my opinion is if you want sharp corners zeiss wins every time ..canon are soft ..i only use manual focus ..never use auto focus...im about to get a a7r ...i will keep my 6d because it is soooo easy o use ..ive got all the old yashica lenses and they are superb on the 6d with adapter..cant wait to try them on the a7r ..i will do a review against the 6d ...and any medium format back will destroy the a7r because the pixel density is bigger..bigger pixel density equals better image quality ...if you havet got a trained eye you wont notice the difference ...allso zeiss arnt in my opinion for ameture photographers...hyper focal distance playsa big part...some of the cheaper zeiss like the 50mm ze zf 1.4 suffer from focus shift...anyone who is goin to go for a a7r realise you will need higher shutter speeds not to get motion blur ...those 36 mega pixels need a steady tripod and high shutter speed




  
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Mar 01, 2014 19:56 |  #41

Graham which adapter have you found that works best with Canon lenses.

Sony just came out with a Zeiss 24-70 f4 I think it's for its full frame... Will that fit right on the a7r or do you need an adapter.

Also are there any lens manufactures making lenses that mount directly onto the a7r, other than the ones that are already available from Sony, rather than using an adapter. As I am sure there is some IQ lost.

By the way, thanks for starting this thread.


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grahamclarkphoto
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Mar 06, 2014 14:25 |  #42

andya147 wrote in post #16724225 (external link)
ive got the 6d and have done a lot of tests with zeiss ze vs canon etc..my opinion is if you want sharp corners zeiss wins every time ..canon are soft ..i only use manual focus ..never use auto focus...im about to get a a7r ...i will keep my 6d because it is soooo easy o use ..ive got all the old yashica lenses and they are superb on the 6d with adapter..cant wait to try them on the a7r ..i will do a review against the 6d ...and any medium format back will destroy the a7r because the pixel density is bigger..bigger pixel density equals better image quality ...if you havet got a trained eye you wont notice the difference ...allso zeiss arnt in my opinion for ameture photographers...hyper focal distance playsa big part...some of the cheaper zeiss like the 50mm ze zf 1.4 suffer from focus shift...anyone who is goin to go for a a7r realise you will need higher shutter speeds not to get motion blur ...those 36 mega pixels need a steady tripod and high shutter speed

Your line of thinking is inline with the marketing of photography industry, which is usually out of line with reality


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grahamclarkphoto
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Mar 06, 2014 14:27 |  #43

Bianchi wrote in post #16727500 (external link)
Graham which adapter have you found that works best with Canon lenses.

Sony just came out with a Zeiss 24-70 f4 I think it's for its full frame... Will that fit right on the a7r or do you need an adapter.

Also are there any lens manufactures making lenses that mount directly onto the a7r, other than the ones that are already available from Sony, rather than using an adapter. As I am sure there is some IQ lost.

By the way, thanks for starting this thread.

I'm using the Metabones EF adapter, which has electronic contacts that pass-thru image stabilization, autofocus and lens information.

As for adapters reducing image quality - they don't. Because the flange distance on this camera is short, all the adapters do is extend the back of the lens to the same distance as it is on it's native SLR. In other words, there's no glass within the light path to reduce image quality! : )


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Mar 06, 2014 14:27 as a reply to  @ grahamclarkphoto's post |  #44

This past week I have been to a few locations shooting with the Sony A7R, including Rodeo Beach, Treasure Island, Golden Gate Bridge and Death Valley National Park. Here's a few field notes and images that I came away with:

• Dynamic range is pretty good, indistinguishable from the Canon 5D3 and Canon 6D
• Electronic Viewfinder is a game changer for landscape photographers, especially in bright environments. Check out the back LCD in this high elevation harshly lit Death Valley mountain peak below. Notice how you can’t really determine the exposure and composition properly, or if you could you’d be straining your eyes quite a bit? One look in the viewfinder changes all of that:

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• Small size is amazing

IMAGE: http://www.grahamclarkphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Sony-A7R-with-Canon-50mm-1.8-FD-at-Rodeo-Beach.jpg
Composition Study | 30s – ISO 64 – F18 – Canon 50mm FD 1.8

• Sensor gets quite a bit of dust on it, the shutter vibration technology is all marketing. Same performance as 5D3 and 6D
• Sony A7R bug prevented Bulb Mode: http://youtu.be/o6pH8X​WbiaM (external link)
The Sony A7R fails in bulb mode in the field. Prevented me from getting a few shots, unfortunately. After this video I tried my Canon EF lens and still no resolution of the issue. It turned out to be a bug in the camera, as resetting the entire camera back to factory defaults fixed the issue, but didn’t fix the time it took to re-configure everything as it was before resetting : (

IMAGE: http://www.grahamclarkphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Sony-A7R-with-Canon-50mm-1.8-in-Death-Valley-Black-and-White.jpg
Human Landscape | 43s – F20 – ISO 80 – Canon 50mm 1.8 FD

• Canon FD and FL lenses are resolving just as sharp as my sharpest L lenses, corner sharpness is excellent
• Battery life in Death Valley suffered. It takes about 4 hours 1/2 to charge one battery off the car USB. Needless to say I didn’t get many batteries charged, and struggled to take photographs late in the day

IMAGE: http://www.grahamclarkphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Sony-A7R-with-Canon-17-40mm-San-Francisco-Face-Above-City.jpg
Face Above San Francisco | 205s – F20 – ISO 100 – 20mm – No Photoshop

• Shot with the Canon 6D half the time in the park due to low battery life on the Sony a7R, and I had 3x batteries
• Image Quality of the Sony A7R is quite a few margins above the 5D3 and 6D

IMAGE: http://www.grahamclarkphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Sony-A7R-with-Canon-50mm-1.8-FD-1962-Death-Valley.jpg
Composition Study | 30s – F22 – ISO 50 – Canon 50mm 1.8 FD

IMAGE: http://www.grahamclarkphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Sony-A7R-with-Canon-50mm-1.8-FD-1962-Death-Valley-Black-and-White.jpg
Composition Study | 30s – F18 – ISO 50 – 35mm

IMAGE: http://www.grahamclarkphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Sony-A7R-with-Canon-50mm-1.8-FD-Golden-Gate-at-Night.jpg
Composition Study | 135s – F18 – ISO 100 – Canon 50mm 1.8 FD 1962

IMAGE: http://www.grahamclarkphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Sony-A7R-with-Canon-17-40mm-Black-and-White-Death-Valley-Dantes-Peak.jpg
Composition Study | 20s – F18 – ISO 50 – 30mm

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Mar 06, 2014 19:24 |  #45

grahamclarkphoto wrote in post #16739300 (external link)
Dynamic range is pretty good, indistinguishable from the Canon 5D3 and Canon 6D


• Image Quality of the Sony A7R is quite a few margins above the 5D3 and 6D

Grahm I really appreciate your honesty about the a7r. There are obviously negative issues with the a7r and you are not trying to conceal them because you bought the camera. Thank you!

The 2 points above are interesting to me. You state that DR is the same as Canon's 5D3 and 6D (surprising to me actually)...yet the IQ is levels above. can you elaborate on that?


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