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Thread started 14 Jan 2014 (Tuesday) 07:48
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70D focus issue & blurred pictures

 
jaromire
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Feb 27, 2014 09:22 |  #106

hairy_moth wrote in post #16721428 (external link)
Completely different issue than the one being discussed.

The similarity is that probably 70D does not play well with 3rd party lenses. Just like I said in the previous post that I've already sent the body and Sigma lenses to the Sigma SC for calibration which they have sent it 2 times to the Canon SC due to Back Focus when tested with the Canon 50mm f1.8 and yes the Sigma Technician too experienced the Focus Issue as I left the 70D with them for almost 2 month for testing.




  
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ooze_21
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Feb 27, 2014 09:28 |  #107

hairy_moth wrote in post #16721274 (external link)
Read up on the t2i.. there are complaints about that too. Read the complaints; determine if they are consistent with your experience. That will help you determine how much weight you should give to online lore when making your purchasing decisions.

The complaints in this thread seem to be limited to early adopters of the 70D that purchased their camera in Germany; if you are not purchasing the camera from a German retailer's original stock, I would not worry too much (or at all) about the issues you are reading here.

If I had trusted all of the online naysayer, I would still be waiting to find that first piece of equipment to purchase, because everything available so far has been plagued with problems: the 7D has horrible noise, the 11-16's flare is so bad it is unusable, the 17-55 has build quality issues, the 70-200 is pretty good, but far too expensive and is a rip-off; all of these problems are well documented on this board, and there is a grain of truth to each.

This is true. I feel I haven't got any problems with my T2i. It's just not up to task when taking photo of things that move towards the camera. Also the buffer is too small.

Regarding 70d af issue. I would like this to be a non issue but seeing videos demonstrating this makes me hesitant to buy this camera. As it is now. I would only buy it from a retailer that let me return it (money back) after testing it with my own lenses.


Canon 5D Mark III - Canon 24-105 F4L IS - Canon 70-200 F2.8L IS II - Canon 40mm F2.8 STM - Canon 50 F1.8 STM - Canon 430EX II - YN-622C - YN-622C-TX

  
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Frodge
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Feb 27, 2014 09:46 |  #108

ooze_21 wrote in post #16721548 (external link)
Regarding 70d af issue. I would like this to be a non issue but seeing videos demonstrating this makes me hesitant to buy this camera. As it is now. I would only buy it from a retailer that let me return it (money back) after testing it with my own lenses.

Once you start seeing the same problem being noticed by other users, it is to me at least, a red flag. Could you imagine if canon reverse engineered the 3rd party algorithm so that people hesitated to buy 3rd party in the future?


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Feb 27, 2014 19:11 |  #109

Frodge wrote in post #16721580 (external link)
Once you start seeing the same problem being noticed by other users, it is to me at least, a red flag. Could you imagine if canon reverse engineered the 3rd party algorithm so that people hesitated to buy 3rd party in the future?

Canon doesn't have to reverse engineer 3rd party anything. 3rd party manufacturers have to stay on top of what Canon does. This is why older sigma lenses don't work with newer bodies without being rechipped, they screwed up their analysis of how Canon AF worked, and had to tweak it later.

Canon cannot easily change their AF protocols without affecting use of their old EF lenses, like the original EOS film camera era lenses. They can augment the AF so that newer lenses do different things, but they still have to support the old stuff.


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Feb 27, 2014 19:12 |  #110

Frodge wrote in post #16721580 (external link)
Once you start seeing the same problem being noticed by other users, it is to me at least, a red flag. Could you imagine if canon reverse engineered the 3rd party algorithm so that people hesitated to buy 3rd party in the future?

Canon doesn't have to reverse engineer 3rd party anything. 3rd party manufacturers have to stay on top of what Canon does. This is why older sigma lenses don't work with newer bodies without being rechipped, they screwed up their analysis of how Canon AF worked, and had to tweak it later.

Canon cannot easily change their AF protocols without affecting use of their old EF lenses, like the original EOS film camera era lenses. They can augment the AF so that newer lenses do different things, but they still have to support the old stuff.

Batteries are a different story...


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Frodge
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Feb 27, 2014 21:26 |  #111

What I'm saying is that I wonder if it's possible that they write somethinin their own algorithm to screw with the third party algorithms and make them not work as well.....(on their new bodies)


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Feb 27, 2014 21:42 |  #112

Frodge wrote in post #16723118 (external link)
What I'm saying is that I wonder if it's possible that they write somethinin their own algorithm to screw with the third party algorithms and make them not work as well.....(on their new bodies)

That would sign their death warrant, it would not be good for business, or for older Canon lenses.


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ooze_21
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Mar 05, 2014 08:21 as a reply to  @ TeamSpeed's post |  #113

Heres a new video of this problem. In English this time: https://www.youtube.co​m …=UU0sx2UCRrPrZ_​98J6oRtbwQ (external link)


Canon 5D Mark III - Canon 24-105 F4L IS - Canon 70-200 F2.8L IS II - Canon 40mm F2.8 STM - Canon 50 F1.8 STM - Canon 430EX II - YN-622C - YN-622C-TX

  
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hokiealumnus
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Mar 06, 2014 21:56 as a reply to  @ ooze_21's post |  #114

After several rounds of testing, I have come to a couple of conclusions about the 70D + nifty fifty (EF 50mm f/1.8) combination.

1. At close range, it works splendidly, no matter the focus point or method.
2. This thing needed some serious MFA; I've settled on -10 for now using the dot-tune method.
3. At distance (in my case approximately 17 feet), this lens -beit this copy or this lens in general- is horribly inconsistent when using phase detect (through-the-viewfinder) focus.
4. Live view - the 70D's much improved, fast as lightning, dual-pixel live view - is far more consistent than phase detect, with this lens.

So, as one example (of three I did, but this is the most easily compared), I shot a test chart. There is a lot of light on the chart (two shop lights w/ 100W CFLs), so lighting isn't a problem.

The test setup:

IMAGE: http://photography.hokiealumnus.com/upload/2014/03/06/20140306222623-aa68c0ca.jpg

Results w/ 50mm f/1.8

IMAGE: http://photography.hokiealumnus.com/upload/2014/03/06/20140306222622-fe96d070.jpg

On the plus side, the center focus point doesn't seem to be any better or worse than the above- or below- center points. Live view is much better than all three.

By contrast, here is the EF-S 18-55mm IS STM using the center-point.

IMAGE: http://photography.hokiealumnus.com/upload/2014/03/06/20140306225357-aafc1379.jpg

This is obviously inconclusive and I need a better lens, which I can't afford. However, here's some testing for you to mull over, for what it may be worth.

Canon 70D - First Impressions & Review'ish Thread
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gabebalazs
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Mar 06, 2014 22:06 |  #115

Thanks for doing the test.
To me the center point looks to be performing the worst based on these samples though.


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MakisM1
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Mar 06, 2014 22:39 |  #116

I think that the further away you go, the more erratically the stepper motor of the nifty is going to perform, as the steps are too coarse. That is for pixel peeping...

I have a EF 35-70 circa 1989 (?) with a similar stepper motor. The optics are pretty good, the AF sucks rocks. Always did.

Since I use the nifty mostly for portraits, I am usually no more than 10 ft from the subject and looks like it is the sweet spot.

For larger distances, it will settle on one click or the next. Equally likely to be spot-on, or miles off.


Gerry
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hokiealumnus
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Mar 07, 2014 07:48 |  #117

gabebalazs wrote in post #16740310 (external link)
Thanks for doing the test.
To me the center point looks to be performing the worst based on these samples though.

Yea, I think you're right. It's so erratic I hate to call it out as being worse, but based on these samples, that's true.

MakisM1 wrote in post #16740361 (external link)
I think that the further away you go, the more erratically the stepper motor of the nifty is going to perform, as the steps are too coarse. That is for pixel peeping...

I have a EF 35-70 circa 1989 (?) with a similar stepper motor. The optics are pretty good, the AF sucks rocks. Always did.

Since I use the nifty mostly for portraits, I am usually no more than 10 ft from the subject and looks like it is the sweet spot.

For larger distances, it will settle on one click or the next. Equally likely to be spot-on, or miles off.

I actually had the same reasoning and it makes complete sense to me, but if that's the case, why is live view able to dial it in nearly in perfect focus every time? I manually took the lens out of focus before every one of these shots and only live view consistently succeeded in proper focus, but succeed it did. In all but one of those shots, it is tack sharp, with the one ever so slightly off. The camera was on a tripod and didn't move, so distance from subject can't have changed the efficacy of the steps.

With that said, I can't come up with a good reason for these results other than that phase detect just isn't as good at focusing as live view with this lens (<--emphasis on that part!). With my inadequate small sample size, I'm still not willing to go all the way and say there is a focus issue with any fast lens, but something is up with this particular lens & camera combination for sure.

Anybody have a 50mm f/1.4 or even a 40mm f/2.8 pancake they'd be willing to let me borrow temporarily? :cool:


Canon 70D - First Impressions & Review'ish Thread
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MakisM1
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Mar 07, 2014 08:38 |  #118

I am intrigued enough that I will break out the tripod to test the stepper motor of the nifty in good light.

Yesterday night I was testing at ISO 6400 which doesn't lend itself in determining focus accuracy. Interestingly enough, for the same distance, I could hear the EF 24-70 hunting...


Gerry
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MakisM1
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Mar 07, 2014 09:04 |  #119

Nope!

I tried the EF 24-70 @ 50 mm FL f2.8 with single point AF, Live View AF and Live View 10x AF and also the EF 50 at f2.0 with the same 3 AF settings and an off center single point AF.

Seven identical photos. Even the sharpness didn't differ appreciably in the center for this morning's condition. The flipping nifty hardly hunted and came in on the spot! The off center AF didn't have any problems either on the 5DIII.

Perhaps you should try the same test in natural light if you can, during the weekend.


Gerry
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Scoobert
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Mar 07, 2014 09:13 |  #120

MakisM1 wrote in post #16740978 (external link)
Nope!

I tried the EF 24-70 @ 50 mm FL f2.8 with single point AF, Live View AF and Live View 10x AF and also the EF 50 at f2.0 with the same 3 AF settings and an off center single point AF.

Seven identical photos. Even the sharpness didn't differ appreciably in the center for this morning's condition. The flipping nifty hardly hunted and came in on the spot! The off center AF didn't have any problems either on the 5DIII.

Perhaps you should try the same test in natural light if you can, during the weekend.

Be happy you got a good copy MANY people are having this same issue. As to the light (indoor/outdoor) it shouldn't matter. As long as there is plenty of light for it to get a lock.

Here is several test with several different lenses. All displayed issues at range.

http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=cA6JnzYSDJE (external link)




  
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70D focus issue & blurred pictures
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