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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Critique Corner 
Thread started 07 Mar 2014 (Friday) 18:59
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WWII 2-man Submarine

 
Qbx
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Mar 07, 2014 18:59 |  #1

A Japanese 2-man attack sub on display at a Guam Naval base. I went all-out with the HDR to bring out detail in the black skin. It was a bright low-overcast scene. This sub ran aground during the 2nd battle of Guam and never fired its 2 torpedoes. The crew presumably were picked up by a mother sub. C&C Welcome.


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Mar 07, 2014 19:28 |  #2

I think I would prefer a shot using one image, with some extensive processing. This is way over-processed to my eye and the stuff that is not the submarine just looks cartoonish. Some might like this effect. I do not.


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Mar 07, 2014 19:31 |  #3

Qbx wrote in post #16742204 (external link)
A Japanese 2-man attack sub on display at a Guam Naval base. I went all-out with the HDR to bring out detail in the black skin. It was a bright low-overcast scene. This sub ran aground during the 2nd battle of Guam and never fired its 2 torpedoes. The crew presumably were picked up by a mother sub. C&C Welcome.

Good Shot. I was there a couple months ago.


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sapearl
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Mar 07, 2014 19:37 |  #4

It's an interesting graphic design and would be suitable for some very stylized poster art. But I find some the halo's on the edges a bit distracting.

The second is my favorite, with that angle on the prop. With an overcast sky like that and pretty even lighting, I'm curious why you went extreme HDR? You could have rendered a good solid tonal range without it. I tend towards more realistic work and this just seems a bit overcooked. Still though, HDR aside you have some strong compositional elements.


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indefinite_pronoun
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Mar 07, 2014 19:59 as a reply to  @ sapearl's post |  #5

I really don't care for the processing. Preference for this heavily tone-mapped look is quite subjective, I know, but to me it looks messy and draws attention to annoying details like halos and excessive small-scale contrast.

Speaking purely about composition, the second image is by far the better of the two. The first image looks tilted, has leading lines going off to a very prominent red roof that totally dominates my attention, and has an oddly featureless grey sky that looks like a paint bucket fill.

The second image has some really interesting forms in the propeller, and the leading lines work much better, since the flags in the background make some sense thematically. (The red roof and the car in the background, on the other hand, are not great. You might try cloning them out.) The palm tree helps to establish a sense of place, which I like. The tones in the sky are a nice textural contrast with the submarine's surface - but, again, please dial the processing way back!




  
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sandpiper
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Mar 08, 2014 04:58 as a reply to  @ indefinite_pronoun's post |  #6

I like the composition of the second image, but I find the cartoonish presentation very distracting and takes my attention away from the actual subject. I feel it would make a very good image processed normally, but don't like it as it stands I'm afraid.

You say you used the HDR to bring out the detail in the skin, presumably to better show what the sub looks like, yet the opposite is the case. Whilst I can see all the dimples in the skin, I have no idea what the sub actually looks like if I were to be stood looking at it.




  
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Woodworker
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Mar 08, 2014 07:11 |  #7

I'm afraid I must agree with some others. The PP doesn't appeal to me in the least and does nothing but detract from an interesting subject.


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sapearl
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Mar 08, 2014 07:22 |  #8

Qbx - have you considered doing just a nice, conventional b/w conversion of #2? The HDR totally diminishes what you have captured as a nice composition.

As Indefinite Pronoun pointed out you have some strong elements which really grab the eye and I agree with him. The moodiness of that stormy sky with the texture of the hull and highlights on the prop could give you some very nice gray scale and tonal effects. Apply sharpening appropriately and you could have a much stronger image. I would also clone out the one palm tree over the prop.


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Woodworker
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Mar 08, 2014 07:37 |  #9

Sapearl, Yours is an excellent critique but I disagree with your suggestion to sharpen the image. I used to get carried away with over-sharpening but eventually realised the error of my ways.

I'm not at all bothered by the trees and think I'd leave them in.

Just my opinion :)


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Qbx
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Mar 08, 2014 09:41 as a reply to  @ Woodworker's post |  #10

ijohnson wrote in post #16742244 (external link)
I think I would prefer a shot using one image, with some extensive processing. This is way over-processed to my eye and the stuff that is not the submarine just looks cartoonish. Some might like this effect. I do not.

I'll give it a try; but when I saw the range of light I opted for hdr. I'll post one mid image below to show what I had to work with. Thanks.

Lt Colonel wrote in post #16742250 (external link)
Good Shot. I was there a couple months ago.

Thanks Colonel - and thanks for your service!

sapearl wrote in post #16742260 (external link)
It's an interesting graphic design and would be suitable for some very stylized poster art. But I find some the halo's on the edges a bit distracting.

The second is my favorite, with that angle on the prop. With an overcast sky like that and pretty even lighting, I'm curious why you went extreme HDR? You could have rendered a good solid tonal range without it. I tend towards more realistic work and this just seems a bit overcooked. Still though, HDR aside you have some strong compositional elements.

I'm not sure that I could get a full tonal image without HDR. I liked the detail in the skin that extreme HDR brought out. Probably just a personal preference. I'm going to see what I can do with some less extreme HDR and will post it.

indefinite_pronoun wrote in post #16742298 (external link)
I really don't care for the processing. Preference for this heavily tone-mapped look is quite subjective, I know, but to me it looks messy and draws attention to annoying details like halos and excessive small-scale contrast.

Speaking purely about composition, the second image is by far the better of the two. The first image looks tilted, has leading lines going off to a very prominent red roof that totally dominates my attention, and has an oddly featureless grey sky that looks like a paint bucket fill.

The second image has some really interesting forms in the propeller, and the leading lines work much better, since the flags in the background make some sense thematically. (The red roof and the car in the background, on the other hand, are not great. You might try cloning them out.) The palm tree helps to establish a sense of place, which I like. The tones in the sky are a nice textural contrast with the submarine's surface - but, again, please dial the processing way back!

Thanks for your thoughts on #1. So I decided to see if I could improve it with a tilt correction (skew actually), added a new sky, cloned out the red roof.

sandpiper wrote in post #16742873 (external link)
I like the composition of the second image, but I find the cartoonish presentation very distracting and takes my attention away from the actual subject. I feel it would make a very good image processed normally, but don't like it as it stands I'm afraid.

You say you used the HDR to bring out the detail in the skin, presumably to better show what the sub looks like, yet the opposite is the case. Whilst I can see all the dimples in the skin, I have no idea what the sub actually looks like if I were to be stood looking at it.

I'll post a straight shot. Thanks.

Woodworker wrote in post #16743013 (external link)
I'm afraid I must agree with some others. The PP doesn't appeal to me in the least and does nothing but detract from an interesting subject.

Gotcha. Thanks.

sapearl wrote in post #16743022 (external link)
Qbx - have you considered doing just a nice, conventional b/w conversion of #2? The HDR totally diminishes what you have captured as a nice composition.

As Indefinite Pronoun pointed out you have some strong elements which really grab the eye and I agree with him. The moodiness of that stormy sky with the texture of the hull and highlights on the prop could give you some very nice gray scale and tonal effects. Apply sharpening appropriately and you could have a much stronger image. I would also clone out the one palm tree over the prop.

I see what you mean about the tree.
I'll see what it looks like in B&W - I hadn't considered it before. Thanks.


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sapearl
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Mar 08, 2014 09:52 |  #11

Woodworker wrote in post #16743037 (external link)
Sapearl, Yours is an excellent critique but I disagree with your suggestion to sharpen the image. I used to get carried away with over-sharpening but eventually realised the error of my ways.

I'm not at all bothered by the trees and think I'd leave them in.

Just my opinion :)

I understand what you are saying Woodworker and partially agree with your recommendation. I would not sharpen the entire image.

Carefully using an adjustment layer I would only sharpen certain foreground details of the sub in order to more focus your attention on those interesting areas. I would leave distant, less important details - prow, skyline, trees, building - softer and less distinct/important. Painters and illustrators do this all the time in their work and the better photographs here exhibit those qualities.

In my landscape and other work I always selectively sharpen specific details, depending on my emphasis. Very often it is limited to the foreground unless my goal is to maximize DOF.


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Qbx
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Mar 10, 2014 03:48 |  #12

Here is a B&W of #2 with the tree removed.


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Mar 10, 2014 09:16 |  #13

I kinda dig the HDR images here.... reminds me of a water color print


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