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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 05 Mar 2014 (Wednesday) 22:13
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My 6D is a lot better sports camera than my 7d

 
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Mar 11, 2014 09:54 |  #166

mickeyb105 wrote in post #16750376 (external link)
Haters gonna hate, OC.

+1

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Mar 11, 2014 11:14 |  #167

speedync wrote in post #16749987 (external link)
Utter rubbish. You are seriously trying to tell us that when you are standing there, camera in hand, finger on the shutter button, that it takes you 2 seconds from seeing something, to pressing the shutter button? He he he he he. Pull the other one.

It isn't that far off, I would put the average time to .75 to 1.25. If you drag-race, you see this all the time. The reaction time isn't just human, it accounts for the mechanical part too. As always, I have experience and pictures to help back my comments. :)

Once you see something with your eyes, your brain registers it, it tells your body part to move, the mechanical object reacts and performs a task, etc, you would be surprised at the average elapsed time.

Those of us that drag race often can get our reaction times really close to .5 (which is nearly perfect when the green light hits), but the average person would lament why their times were over 1.0. We would laugh, but then explain all the parts of the equation.

No different when shooting sports, especially when something out of the ordinary happens. Many times, by time you react to something out of the ordinary, it is too late. Let's say you shoot hockey, how good are you at getting the puck breaking the plane of the net? I finally became good enough I could do it in single shot mode, but it took a year or so. For others, by time they react, the puck is in the net, lost somewhere, and your shot is basically useless.

No burst shots, but this was a year or more experience at this point. Not great shots, but do show the issue where you have a split second to get the shot, either a puck hitting a player, the plane of the net, or a fast paced shot with the stick bowed. These pucks move very, very fast... Burst would have easier on me. :)

IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Sports/Hockey/Komet-Hockey/i-8QJZ4KP/0/XL/IMG_4480-XL.jpg
IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Sports/Hockey/Komet-Hockey-Feb-17/i-Wkj2KR6/0/XL/IMG_8273-XL.jpg
IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Sports/Hockey/Komet-Hockey-Feb-17/i-5TZTVcW/0/XL/IMG_8245-XL.jpg
IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Sports/Hockey/Komet-Hockey-Feb-17/i-CQ5bXTW/0/XL/IMG_8279-XL.jpg
IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Sports/Hockey/Komet-Hockey-Jan-7-2011/i-JzGbH5G/0/XL/IMG_3667-XL.jpg

Here is a fail, just millisec too late...
IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Sports/Hockey/Komets-Spring-2012/i-cCzQRTD/0/L/BIG_2830-L.jpg

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MakisM1
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Mar 11, 2014 11:31 |  #168

We can talk until the cows come home.

Here is a simple test, (which by the way is stacked in favor of the anticipators, because it has no sudden variations).

Try to hit x7 seconds on the stopwatch. Anticipate to your heart's desire...

By the way, the answer is about 0.3 seconds, we have done this experiment about 40 years ago with about 80 participants in college. It was when we discovered that the HP-41 had a hidden stopwatch with 1/100 sec counter. Don't embarass yourself by picking to show a random photo that you've done better...

In a mobile phone near you...:D


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Mar 11, 2014 11:39 as a reply to  @ MakisM1's post |  #169

Yes, so that would be best case, and you don't have mechanical parts involved (shutter button, shutter assembly, lens AF). Add mechanics into the equation and the time could double. Add random events in the middle of noise, people, etc, and the time could double again. So .3 goes to .6 with mechanical moving parts, that goes to 1.2s with random events, but you are ready for that, and yet even slower if you weren't expecting it at all, possibly double that. :D

Here is a web test, and at least it involves a mouse button if you aren't using a touchscreen. It shows a .2 average time, but again many things come into play.
http://www.humanbenchm​ark.com/tests/reaction​time/stats.php (external link)

CAUTION: too addictive for the workplace, this made its way around alot here.
http://www.humanbenchm​ark.com/tests/reaction​time/ (external link)

Another fun one and photo-related! A bit tough though, I got an 87 when I just tried it, shouldve been better!
http://www.gamesbox.co​m …perman-Returns-Stop-Press (external link)


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Mar 11, 2014 11:44 |  #170

This is why I have a fortune teller follow me around everywhere. This way I never miss the shot.


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Hogloff
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Mar 11, 2014 11:50 |  #171
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TeamSpeed wrote in post #16750662 (external link)
Yes, so that would be best case, and you don't have mechanical parts involved (shutter button, shutter assembly, lens AF). Add mechanics into the equation and the time could double. Add random events in the middle of noise, people, etc, and the time could double again. So .3 goes to .6 with mechanical moving parts, that goes to 1.2s with random events, but you are ready for that, and yet even slower if you weren't expecting it at all, possibly double that. :D

Here is a web test, and at least it involves a mouse button if you aren't using a touchscreen. It shows a .2 average time, but again many things come into play.
http://www.humanbenchm​ark.com/tests/reaction​time/stats.php (external link)

CAUTION: too addictive for the workplace, this made its way around alot here.
http://www.humanbenchm​ark.com/tests/reaction​time/ (external link)

Another fun one and photo-related!
http://www.gamesbox.co​m …perman-Returns-Stop-Press (external link)

Reaction time is even acknowledge in sports where you are deemed to have jumped the gun if you leave your starting blocks quicker than 100ms after the gun as it is impossible for the human body to interpret the gun sound and to react that quickly.




  
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raptor3x
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Mar 11, 2014 14:23 |  #172

TeamSpeed wrote in post #16738762 (external link)
Curling is a sport, and I have no doubt the 6D could shoot that just fine, or air hockey, or ping pong, or kids softball, or a number of other sporting events. :D

Table tennis is actually one of the most difficult sports I've ever shot.


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Mar 11, 2014 14:35 |  #173

raptor3x wrote in post #16751012 (external link)
Table tennis is probably the most difficult sport I've ever shot.

No kidding! Insanely fast sport, frenetic action which is understandable considering you have two players standing less than 20 feet apart and the ball is traveling faster than a car.


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Mar 11, 2014 14:36 |  #174

Scrumhalf wrote in post #16751036 (external link)
No kidding! Insanely fast sport, frenetic action which is understandable considering you have two players standing less than 20 feet apart and the ball is traveling faster than a car.

Plus the lighting is always atrociously bad, =).


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Mar 11, 2014 15:14 |  #175

MakisM1 wrote in post #16750651 (external link)
We can talk until the cows come home.

Here is a simple test, (which by the way is stacked in favor of the anticipators, because it has no sudden variations).

Try to hit x7 seconds on the stopwatch. Anticipate to your heart's desire...

By the way, the answer is about 0.3 seconds, we have done this experiment about 40 years ago with about 80 participants in college. It was when we discovered that the HP-41 had a hidden stopwatch with 1/100 sec counter. Don't embarass yourself by picking to show a random photo that you've done better...

In a mobile phone near you...:D

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./showthread.php?p=167​50651&i=i251986522
forum: Canon EOS Digital Cameras

I think you'll find getting within +/- 50ms is not very hard. I've been skeptical of people claiming precision in the <10ms range but 50ms should be achievable for anyone.

Edit: This only applies to things where there is a rythm that can be anticipated. Once you start talking about reacting to random events, then anything below 150ms is restricted to the realm of teenagers on adderall =).


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Mar 11, 2014 15:20 |  #176

I remember a lot of my classmates thinking around 1/10th of a second. None was able to anticipate this reliably. One in 5 I can do it too...

Did you try it? ;)


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Mar 11, 2014 15:36 |  #177

MakisM1 wrote in post #16751155 (external link)
I remember a lot of my classmates thinking around 1/10th of a second. None was able to anticipate this reliably. One in 5 I can do it too...

Did you try it? ;)

I dont get the stopwatch thing, is the purpose to get as close to 7 as possible? I hit 6.99 twice already.

are we talking about anticipation/predictio​n or reaction time?

reaction is obviously slower than prediction. Sports is more prediction than reaction. Player A passes to player B. The reaction factor would be when player A pivots to throw the ball, the prediction is that player B grabs the ball and shoots.

a reaction type sport would be boxing.... I imagine quick jabs would be hard to catch, but a flurry not so much.


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Mar 11, 2014 16:59 |  #178
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raptor3x wrote in post #16751134 (external link)
I think you'll find getting within +/- 50ms is not very hard. I've been skeptical of people claiming precision in the <10ms range but 50ms should be achievable for anyone.

Edit: This only applies to things where there is a rythm that can be anticipated. Once you start talking about reacting to random events, then anything below 150ms is restricted to the realm of teenagers on adderall =).

Is this just from experience or can you reference an article which had some scientific test behind it. 50ms is extremely quick.




  
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Mar 11, 2014 17:25 |  #179

Hogloff wrote in post #16751400 (external link)
Is this just from experience or can you reference an article which had some scientific test behind it. 50ms is extremely quick.

That statement was from doing it 20 times on my phone and tracking the average difference from the target of 7.0 seconds. Heck, if you just think of a nice Sousa march and keep subdividing in your head to 16ths it should be pretty much impossible to do any worse than 80ms. 50ms isn't really all that quick when we're talking about 'reacting' to a rhythmic event that can be anticipated. I'm not aware of any literature on this but it must be out there and my guess would be that the limit falls somewhere around 10-20ms. Also, consider this; Korsakov's Flight of the Bumblebee is traditionally played as sixteenth notes at a tempo of 144 BPM which corresponds to a window of ~26ms to play each note, and 144 BPM would be considered slow for those showing off their technical bravado.


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Mar 11, 2014 17:26 |  #180

Charlie wrote in post #16751200 (external link)
reaction is obviously slower than prediction. Sports is more prediction than reaction. Player A passes to player B. The reaction factor would be when player A pivots to throw the ball, the prediction is that player B grabs the ball and shoots.

Sure that is the boring case, I know that well, my gallery is full of them. :)

The reaction time of when a player decides to make a fast break, when he decides to launch in the air, an alley oop, a slam, an offensive charge, a reach in foul, a block at the goal, etc are much more difficult. Shooting courtside makes this even more difficult. Shooting from the stands is easy. The happy path is what you describe, a pass, a look, then the shot, which is also easy.

Of course I could be just really bad, which is a very reasonable possibility, and others are much better than I at this. If you shoot basketball, I always enjoy looking at others' galleries to get better ideas of what I could shoot, so please share.

Some of my split second shots that were reactionary. A few of which I wish I had done a burst. The next game I will probably leave in high speed burst, and just live with the fact that I will have at least 2 shots per shot, but at least I have the option open for longer.

"The Block"

IMAGE: http://gerberphotos.smugmug.com/Sports-Events/Mad-Ants-20132014-/i-hVdVFZh/0/X2/5P1B7074-X2.jpg

"The Hair"
IMAGE: http://gerberphotos.smugmug.com/Sports-Events/Mad-Ants-20132014-/i-7pS2FZw/0/X2/5P1B7084-X2.jpg

"The Catch"
IMAGE: http://gerberphotos.smugmug.com/Sports-Events/Mad-Ants-20132014-/i-2gwsPJh/0/X2/5P1B6638-X2.jpg

"Spilled Beer"
IMAGE: http://gerberphotos.smugmug.com/Sports-Events/Mad-Ants-20132014-/i-fW3Pp3K/0/XL/5P1B6719-XL.jpg

"The 3 Pointer"
IMAGE: http://gerberphotos.smugmug.com/Sports-Events/Mad-Ants-20132014-/i-6hHDLXn/0/X2/5P1B6262-X2.jpg

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