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Thread started 14 Jan 2014 (Tuesday) 07:48
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70D focus issue & blurred pictures

 
single_track
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Mar 12, 2014 10:49 as a reply to  @ post 16751883 |  #151

I just did another complete round of testing (240 images) and I am convinced that my 70d does not have an issue even with lower, diffused lighting.

Tests:
- 70d with 24-70L, and with 50MM 1.4 sig
- at wide open aperture, and stopped down to f4
- with liveview, center point viewfinder, and lower point viewfinder
- low iso, mirror lockup, solid tripod, good lighting, refocus for each shot
- SOOC analysis with no sharpening
- high contrast target, shot at 18', flat plane parallel to sensor plane
- target on flat wall, no objects to distract focus closer or farther

Results: Quite simple. 100% hit rate for liveview, center point VF and lower point VF, no misses in focus, no advantage in LV. As expected, stopped down (f4) did see a small improvement in sharpness from wide open (f2,8) but this was consistent with all three methods of acquiring focus.
Sample images are result of f4, center point viewfinder at full and 100% cropped sizes. I do not have a method to upload more than 2 images at a time but the entire sample set were, within reason, exactly the same as this.

Conclusion: I cannot see any advantage in LV over VF focusing with adequate lighting present with my 24-70L lens. Next I will test low lighting scene under same controlled conditions at 18 feet.


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Gear list: 70d, 5d & 40d | 70-200L/f4 IS | 24-70L | 17-40L | Sigmalux | 17-85 IS | Opteka 6.5mm fisheye | 580exII
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hokiealumnus
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Mar 12, 2014 10:55 |  #152

Thank you very much single_track. Great to hear, and that's my finding too so far - adequate lighting is the key.

That in itself is a shame partially, because a large part of the benefit of fast lenses on APS-C cameras is using large apertures to get lower ISO. Looking forward to seeing what you get with lower lighting.

EDIT - Also, it is worthy repeating the lens I'm testing with is the EF 50mm f/1.8. It is known to be poor at focusing in low light, so I'm darn near convinced any "issue" I have displayed in this thread has much more to do with the lens than the camera. Regrettably my ability to test other lenses is nil at the moment.


Canon 70D - First Impressions & Review'ish Thread
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gabebalazs
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Mar 12, 2014 10:57 |  #153

Frodge wrote in post #16751883 (external link)
No hard feelings on my end. Just disappointing. 70d was a possibility for me when it first was in the works. It will be interesting to see how it's handled. Having to shoot at 15' feet and further out under f1.8 is not a good thing.

You can still give it a try. This doesn't seem to be an issue in North America (or just isolated cases). The 50mm 1.8 II was always my least reliable focusing lens, by a mile. I had 2 or 3 copies, I don't even remember. And I used them on about 6-7 different bodies. AF was not very reliable.

I did have a 7D that acted up with some fast lenses and the center AF point, when shooting objects far away - basically similar problem as the one discussed here. Only certain lenses, certain conditions and center point. It did it with the 50mm 1.8 and my 17-55 2.8 IS. The 17-55 worked flawlessly on other bodies. The 7D worked flawlessly with some other fast lenses, it was a mystery. I did have 2 other 7Ds that did not have this issue.

My 70D seems fine, no issues and I have a few lenses 2.8 or faster.

Anyway, I wouldn't dismiss the 70D, and if you buy from reputable dealers like B&H, you can send it back free of charge (they pay shipping) if you find your 70D defective.


SONY A7RIII | SONY A7III | SONY RX10 IV | SONY RX100 | 24-70 2.8 GM | 70-200 2.8 GM | 16-35 F/4 | PZ 18-105 F/4 | FE 85 1.8 | FE 28-70 | SIGMA 35 1.4 ART | SIGMA 150-600 C | ROKINON 14 2.8
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single_track
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Mar 12, 2014 11:09 |  #154

gabebalazs wrote in post #16753105 (external link)
Anyway, I wouldn't dismiss the 70D, and if you buy from reputable dealers like B&H, you can send it back free of charge (they pay shipping) if you find your 70D defective.

I agree. My only issue was with my sigma in lower light with lower contrast target at 5' distance. Here I saw an advantage with LV over VF. Otherwise, the 70d is fine In fact, it seems to out focus my 40d and 5Dc.


I always want C&C on my shots.
Gear list: 70d, 5d & 40d | 70-200L/f4 IS | 24-70L | 17-40L | Sigmalux | 17-85 IS | Opteka 6.5mm fisheye | 580exII
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Scoobert
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Mar 12, 2014 12:19 as a reply to  @ single_track's post |  #155

I think its great that any member does not have a bad copy. More test = better

However the last thing I would do is recommend anybody purchase a borked camera and hope that its an ok copy, if not send it back. If we were talking about a bad copy of a 50/1.8 for a hundred bucks I could see it. Not a 1000 dollar camera that has been shown by many to have problems. Especially since canon wont even own up to the issue of why a huge number of 70d's sold in germany are having this issue and now that people are checking more and more every day are found here.
IF its isolated to a certain number and they fixed the rest after that, why not tell the people who you KNOW have bad copies instead of hoping they dont find out.

I tell everybody I talk about with this to stay far away from the 70d. I am already regretting buying it over the D7100. If Nikon comes out with a touch screen this will be my last canon ever.




  
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Phoenixkh
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Mar 12, 2014 13:53 |  #156

I've been on the bleeding edge of technology a few times and haven't been pleased with the outcomes. As I've mentioned many times here, I plan on waiting until we have the actual specs fro the 7D 2 to see if that will be my next camera body or if I'll end up with the 70D. Either way, I'll wait until this problem is sorted out, one way or the other, on the 70D. Plus, I'll wait for 6 months or so until enough 7D 2s are in the field to see if it's reliable out of the gate.

Early adoption is exciting but can be excruciating. My 60D is performing quite well and the money I've saved isn't burning a hole in my pocket.... yet.


Kim (the male variety) Canon 1DX2 | 1D IV | 16-35 f/4 IS | 24-105 f/4 IS | 100L IS macro | 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II | 100-400Lii | 50 f/1.8 STM | Canon 1.4X III
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Keyan
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Mar 14, 2014 10:21 |  #157

I preordered my 70D, it is a first production run, got it two days after the release date.

After reading about this and doing some intensive testing of my own with both my 50 1.4 and my 17-55, indoors with poor lighting in my basement I could not recreate it. Also I used the 17-55 for a week at Disney with all kinds of lighting, distances, subjects, etc using center point, I cannot find any evidence that mine has this problem.

The odds are that you will not get a body that has this issue. If you do, it seems that testing for it is pretty simple and repeatable and you can do it well within the vendor's return period and certainly within warranty.

If someone sends the body and the lens in, along with sample shots (ideally showing the active focus point) that is having this issue and Canon still says it is working as intended, especially with Canon lenses, I would call and ask to speak to a service manager. I had one issue once with my 17-55 (really bad front focusing when it was new) and when they shipped it back it was poorly packaged. They paid for me to send it in again and ran it through their testing to verify operation free of charge to me. I would certainly try to contact them and speak with a manager if you aren't getting satisfactory results. Also if you have enough high end lenses registering for CPS can get you more attention if you are having an issue that is not getting fixed.

It does seem that some users are having a significant problem that seems to occur when the center point is in dual cross mode (2.8 or wider lenses). Canon has always done a good job of issuing service bulletins for things when they find an issue, from the point and shoots (S100 lens issue) up to the 5D3. My feeling is that, as always, the Internet is generally a place where people go when they have a problem and they tend to then be very vocal about it, and it makes it challenging to figure out just how wide spread the issue is when you are not looking at a fair sample set.

Overall, to me, the 70D has been a very good camera that is a joy to work with and use.


Cameras: 7D2, S100
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travisvwright
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Mar 14, 2014 12:36 |  #158

Keyan wrote in post #16758043 (external link)
It does seem that some users are having a significant problem that seems to occur when the center point is in dual cross mode (2.8 or wider lenses).

This is interesting. Does the dual cross mode only come into play at 2.8 or wider?


I come here for your expert opinion. Please do not hesitate to critique or edit.
70D, 6D, Canon 135, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Tamron 70-200 2.8 VC, Canon 50 1.4, Canon 100 2.8 Macro, Canon 85 1.8, Canon 10-18 4.5 STM

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Scoobert
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Mar 14, 2014 12:49 |  #159

travisvwright wrote in post #16758401 (external link)
This is interesting. Does the dual cross mode only come into play at 2.8 or wider?

Yes




  
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TeamSpeed
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Mar 15, 2014 07:02 |  #160

Scoobert wrote in post #16751382 (external link)
Becuase its not data ..walking around and taking pics of a fire hyd. is not a test. Yet because you did your "test" you come to the conclusion . I didnt put words in your mouth, I quoted you.
I am far from throwing a fit, and you really didnt do any test to confirm anything.

You could though, just to prove you are right. Put your camera on a tripod. Simulate the same thing I did (except at 1.8 instead of the 1.4) in my test. shoot 20 shots in numbered order through the view finder. That is data, shooting a flag at F/11 and calling your copy good because of it means nothing.

So "many, many people don't have this problem" is inaccurate? The comment stands, there seems to be a set of folks that do have this problem, there are a set of folks that don't have this problem and there is a set of folks that don't know one way or another. This means that 2 out of 3 sets, whatever the numbers, don't have anything wrong with their 70D affecting what they shoot. That sounds like "many, many people" would be an accurate assessment. ;)

That all being said, this youtube video seems to be a very practical review of the issue. Sounds like MFA can be used to correct some of the issues in some conditions in the interim until Canon addresses the public findings one way or another.
https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=cA6JnzYSDJE (external link)


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Frodge
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Mar 15, 2014 07:17 |  #161

TeamSpeed wrote in post #16760085 (external link)
So "many, many people don't have this problem" is inaccurate? The comment stands, there seems to be a set of folks that do have this problem, there are a set of folks that don't have this problem and there is a set of folks that don't know one way or another. This means that 2 out of 3 sets, whatever the numbers, don't have anything wrong with their 70D affecting what they shoot. That sounds like "many, many people" would be an accurate assessment. ;)

That all being said, this youtube video seems to be a very practical review of the issue.
https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=cA6JnzYSDJE (external link)

It's fuzzy math as they say. Just because you "don't know one way or another" if you have the problem or not, does not at all mean you don't have anything wrong. It's an unknown. I would personally say from what I've read on here and other sites, that it's a definite problem. How big and widespread is a different conversation altogether. I wouldn't be happy if I had a camera that couldn't nail focus at wide open apertures (expensive lenses) at less than 15 feet. For the people that have this problem I would think its a very big problem if they shoot with a lot of subject isolation.


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TeamSpeed
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Mar 15, 2014 07:41 |  #162

Frodge wrote in post #16760095 (external link)
It's fuzzy math as they say. Just because you "don't know one way or another" if you have the problem or not, does not at all mean you don't have anything wrong. It's an unknown. I would personally say from what I've read on here and other sites, that it's a definite problem. How big and widespread is a different conversation altogether. I wouldn't be happy if I had a camera that couldn't nail focus at wide open apertures (expensive lenses) at less than 15 feet. For the people that have this problem I would think its a very big problem if they shoot with a lot of subject isolation.

There certainly seems to be a problem, but it certainly isn't a complete model-wide issue. Therefore, it is logical to assume there was a manufacturing issue for a period of time, or a batch of hardware components that affected a segment of the model line. However, it is also safe to assume that "many, many people don't have this issue", because there are many many people that have tested their equipment and don't have the issue, based on comments, other forum threads, youtube comments, etc. One cannot certainly say that "a few people don't have this issue", that would be more inaccurate.


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Frodge
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Mar 15, 2014 07:48 |  #163

TeamSpeed wrote in post #16760137 (external link)
There certainly seems to be a problem, but it certainly isn't a complete model-wide issue. Therefore, it is logical to assume there was a manufacturing issue for a period of time, or a batch of hardware components that affected a segment of the model line. However, it is also safe to assume that "many, many people don't have this issue", because there are many many people that have tested their equipment and don't have the issue, based on comments, other forum threads, youtube comments, etc. One cannot certainly say that "a few people don't have this issue", that would be more inaccurate.

I agree. We need to figure out how widespread it really is.


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Scoobert
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Mar 15, 2014 09:02 |  #164

TeamSpeed wrote in post #16760085 (external link)
So "many, many people don't have this problem" is inaccurate? The comment stands, there seems to be a set of folks that do have this problem, there are a set of folks that don't have this problem and there is a set of folks that don't know one way or another. This means that 2 out of 3 sets, whatever the numbers, don't have anything wrong with their 70D affecting what they shoot. That sounds like "many, many people" would be an accurate assessment. ;)

That all being said, this youtube video seems to be a very practical review of the issue. Sounds like MFA can be used to correct some of the issues in some conditions in the interim until Canon addresses the public findings one way or another.
https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=cA6JnzYSDJE (external link)

MFA does nothing most of the time, helps some of the time and makes it worse the rest of time. Because the focus is not always short or long its all over the place.. Which is why I bought a Focus Genie from you. But mf adjustments only help if the lens/camera are are seeing the same thing consistently.




  
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kezug
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Mar 16, 2014 15:13 |  #165

Has anyone determined how wide spread this issue is? and how real this issue is?

It seems that very few on this thread have the issue, the rest are speculating and others, like me, are curious.

I hate seeing threads like this as I am very near a decision on whether or not to invest in this camera. Ugh.


Camera's: 70D, G12 | Len's: 18-135mm IS STM, 55-250mm IS STM, 50mm f/1.8 II | Photos:flickr (external link)

  
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70D focus issue & blurred pictures
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