Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 02 Mar 2014 (Sunday) 11:30
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Breakthrough camera, the 6d or sony a7r?

 
mystik610
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
9,234 posts
Gallery: 36 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 9930
Joined Jan 2012
Location: Houston, TX
     
Mar 12, 2014 20:03 |  #256

mickeyb105 wrote in post #16753311 (external link)
But what do you get when you put all of these features into the same camera and price it under $2K with an L kit lens? Dare I say it is a breakthrough for the consumer, semi-pro and budget-conscious pro? If it is not that, then it is--at the very least--a signature win.

Sure if that's what we're defining as a breakthrough.

Not taking anything away from Canon releasing an affordable FF camera, but a breakthrough product for me is something that pushes the industry forward. And that product is the a7r. Also, the a7 covers both bases, as the body is actually cheaper than the 6D was upon release. (keeping in mind that the a7 has only been out for 3 months, and not in a position to be discounted from MSRP just yet)


focalpointsphoto.com (external link) - flickr (external link) - Instagram (external link)
α7ʀIV - α7ʀIII
Sigma 14-24 f2.8 ART - Zeiss Loxia 21 - Sigma 35 f1.2 ART - Sony 35 1.8 - Sony/Zeiss 55 1.8 - Sony 85GM

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
Hogloff
Cream of the Crop
7,606 posts
Likes: 415
Joined Apr 2003
Location: British Columbia
     
Mar 12, 2014 20:45 |  #257
bannedPermanent ban

mystik610 wrote in post #16754280 (external link)
Sure if that's what we're defining as a breakthrough.

Not taking anything away from Canon releasing an affordable FF camera, but a breakthrough product for me is something that pushes the industry forward. And that product is the a7r. Also, the a7 covers both bases, as the body is actually cheaper than the 6D was upon release. (keeping in mind that the a7 has only been out for 3 months, and not in a position to be discounted from MSRP just yet)

Exactly. Affordability is not a technical or industry leading breakthrough. There was nothing innovative added to the 6d. Just repackaged 5d stuff into a cheaper body to sell to the masses. Yes, I applaud Canon for releasing an affordable full frame camera...but innovative...give me a break. Its sort of calling the EOS-M as being innovative because it's cheap.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
EverydayGetaway
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
10,675 posts
Gallery: 11 photos
Likes: 3973
Joined Oct 2012
Location: Bowie, MD
     
Mar 12, 2014 22:48 |  #258

Hogloff wrote in post #16754362 (external link)
Exactly. Affordability is not a technical or industry leading breakthrough. There was nothing innovative added to the 6d. Just repackaged 5d stuff into a cheaper body to sell to the masses. Yes, I applaud Canon for releasing an affordable full frame camera...but innovative...give me a break. Its sort of calling the EOS-M as being innovative because it's cheap.

Once again, pro-sumer DSLR with WiFi and GPS, smallest and lightest weight FF body and the center AF point you could call breakthrough or not, to me it makes little difference since all but one of my lenses at the moment are MF anyway.

Just because it isn't a breakthrough in ways that matter to you, doesn't mean it isn't a breakthrough in other areas or to other photographers. Remember to be a breakthrough means that other products have to follow in it's wake, this is already happening as all the latest DSLR's now come with WiFi or GPS because people who have actually used them recognize their usefulness, same with being lighter and smaller.

Also, EOS M could be a huge success if Canon re-release one with a built in EVF and the 70D AF system. Just think, a mirrorless body that can use any EF or EF-S lens and actually focus properly with it. I think it's only a matter of time before Canon releases one and the G1Xii is great evidence of what's to come. As it is right now though, I think it's the perfect large sensor pocket camera, I literally have mine in a pocket everywhere I go. Again, not useful for you, fine, we get it, doesn't mean it isn't useful ;)


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-H1 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T
flickr (external link) // Instagram (external link)www.LucasGPhoto.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
kin2son
Goldmember
4,546 posts
Likes: 3
Joined May 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
     
Mar 12, 2014 23:50 |  #259
bannedPermanent ban

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #16754619 (external link)
As it is right now though, I think it's the perfect large sensor pocket camera, I literally have mine in a pocket everywhere I go.

Except you can't really fit the M in the pocket :p

I urge you to look into the GR - truly pockletable, powerful one handed operation, better IQ, DR and ISO performance, sharper (no AA filter) ultimate street cam. AF is light years better than the M.

My M has been gathering dust...


5D3 Gripped / 17-40L / Σ35 / 40 Pancake / Zeiss 50 MP / Σ85 / 100L Macro / 70-200 f2.8L II IS / 430 EX II / 580 EX II / Canon 2xIII TC / Kenko Ext. Tubes
EOS M / EF-M 18-55 / EF-M 22f2 / Ricoh GR aka Ultimate street camera :p
Flickr (external link) | My Images on Getty®‎ (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
ERJL
Senior Member
Avatar
384 posts
Joined Dec 2012
Location: Sacramento, CA
     
Mar 12, 2014 23:56 |  #260
bannedPermanent ban

Hogloff wrote in post #16745434 (external link)
Qualify...for your type of photography. For my type, fine art landscapes, it far exceeds the 6d.

You might convince me if you post some of your fine art landscapes taken with your a7r.
It would be interesting to see what you can accomplish with it which can not be done with a 6D.


-ERJL

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
EverydayGetaway
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
10,675 posts
Gallery: 11 photos
Likes: 3973
Joined Oct 2012
Location: Bowie, MD
     
Mar 13, 2014 01:19 |  #261

kin2son wrote in post #16754730 (external link)
Except you can't really fit the M in the pocket :p

I urge you to look into the GR - truly pockletable, powerful one handed operation, better IQ, DR and ISO performance, sharper (no AA filter) ultimate street cam. AF is light years better than the M.

My M has been gathering dust...

Fits in my pockets fine, not all of us live in Australia where you have to wear shorts everyday ;)

Also, I'd have to pay twice what my M cost, get a less favorable single lens focal length (imo) and lose 1 stop of light. If I were going to replace the M it'd be with either the new G1X2 or an X100.

The GR is definitely nice, just not for me.


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-H1 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T
flickr (external link) // Instagram (external link)www.LucasGPhoto.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
h14nha
Goldmember
Avatar
2,063 posts
Gallery: 11 photos
Likes: 172
Joined Nov 2008
Location: South Wales, UK
     
Mar 13, 2014 02:38 |  #262

h14nha wrote in post #16744275 (external link)
My point was -3EV was the only thing I could think of that was 'revolutionary' on the 6D when it was released. Whether that is useful in real life or not I don't know. I only asked to see if -3 EV was a feature that was useable.

My earlier post

Bakewell wrote in post #16754209 (external link)
If you look back thru the thread you'll notice I never said the -3EV was a breakthrough. You did. I never expressed any interest one way or the other regarding the -3EV capability of th 6D. Not sure why it would be deemed necessary for me to post anything....

I didn't single you out, anyone can post an example. You responded to my post, and,as you have a 6D, I asked to see any shots taken at -3 to see if they are useable out of interest. If no one posts any pictures then I am left to draw the conclusion they aren't. Therefore the one feature I said made the 6D stand out, would be a gimmick.


Ian
There's no fool like an old skool fool :D
myflickr (external link)
My Gear - 7d, / 16-35mm F4 / 70-200 2.8 II / 100-400 / 300mm 2.8 / 500/4 :D XT-1 Graphite 18/35/56

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
jt354
Senior Member
401 posts
Joined Oct 2010
Location: Michigan
     
Mar 13, 2014 06:58 |  #263

jonneymendoza wrote in post #16747949 (external link)
Landscape photographers tend to disagree with you.

they like high MP high DR tools that can do the job.

DR being the important one

I see no disagreement - DR and MP are all dependent on the camera's sensor (and image processor I suppose). Someone else mentioned weather sealing, but any professional camera will have that. I don't see the a7r being successfully marketed to wedding photogs or wildlife shooters. While the 6D may not be the best choice for those applications, it still gets the job done. The a7r, with its contrast-detect AF, slow shutter drive, and poor battery life, is only ideal for static landscapes and portraits.

Of course we really shouldn't be comparing the a7r to the 6D. A more appropriate comparison would be the a7 and 6D. On paper, the a7 seems more versatile than the a7r, since it incorporates phase detect AF, has faster continuous drive, and more manageable file size (not to mention way lower price!). If I ever see one in a local shop I'll have to give it a try, but for my needs I just don't see the benefit of losing the mirror and OVF.


Zenfolio (external link)
flickr (external link)
Gear: Canon 60D / Canon G12 / Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 / Canon 35mm f/2 IS / Canon 85mm f/1.8 / Tamron SP 70-300mm f/4-5.6 / Speedlite 430 EXII / Slik 700DX legs / Cullmann MB6 head

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Hogloff
Cream of the Crop
7,606 posts
Likes: 415
Joined Apr 2003
Location: British Columbia
     
Mar 13, 2014 08:43 |  #264
bannedPermanent ban

ERJL wrote in post #16754738 (external link)
You might convince me if you post some of your fine art landscapes taken with your a7r.
It would be interesting to see what you can accomplish with it which can not be done with a 6D.

Don't own the A7R yet. Been too busy with business. Will be purchasing one as soon as business allows me more time.

I am working on a website...so soon. I print large prints and that is where the extra pixels and the dynamic range really shine. Web sized images have a way to neutralize all cameras as I've seen some great web images shot from cell phones.

As far as convincing you...you need to do that yourself. Go and rent one for a weekend and you'll be convinced. I have zero interest in convincing anyone. I just state my opinions.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Bakewell
Goldmember
1,385 posts
Joined Jan 2006
Location: Irvine, CA
     
Mar 13, 2014 08:51 |  #265
bannedPermanent ban

h14nha wrote in post #16754905 (external link)
My earlier post


I didn't single you out, anyone can post an example. You responded to my post, and,as you have a 6D, I asked to see any shots taken at -3 to see if they are useable out of interest. If no one posts any pictures then I am left to draw the conclusion they aren't. Therefore the one feature I said made the 6D stand out, would be a gimmick.

The center point allows me to never miss a shot I'm trying for because of light or lack thereof...-3EV? Don't know or care...All I can say is it always works. Since the vast majority of people use center point only (one can argue over the %... 80-95% or higher) it's the right camera for them. End of (MY) story.


Dave

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
MakisM1
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
5,627 posts
Gallery: 25 photos
Likes: 371
Joined Dec 2011
Location: Houston
     
Mar 13, 2014 09:12 |  #266

h14nha wrote in post #16754905 (external link)
I didn't single you out, anyone can post an example. You responded to my post, and,as you have a 6D, I asked to see any shots taken at -3 to see if they are useable out of interest. If no one posts any pictures then I am left to draw the conclusion they aren't. Therefore the one feature I said made the 6D stand out, would be a gimmick.

It's highly likely that the photos will be cr@p, underexposed at ISO25600...

However,

I wondered myself when this -3EV center AF would be of value. The other thing I came up with is flash photography, if no form of AF assist is available... A bit of a stretch, but there you have it... :rolleyes:


Gerry
Canon 5D MkIII/Canon 60D/Canon EF-S 18-200/Canon EF 24-70L USM II/Canon EF 70-200L 2.8 USM II/Canon EF 50 f1.8 II/Σ 8-16/ 430 EXII
OS: Linux Ubuntu/PostProcessing: Darktable/Image Processing: GIMP

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gabebalazs
Bird Whisperer
Avatar
7,640 posts
Gallery: 52 photos
Likes: 1062
Joined Nov 2008
Location: Toledo, OH
     
Mar 13, 2014 09:31 |  #267

It is also of value for people who do longer exposure photos for instance. So, conditions requiring -3 EV AF and good quality photos are not mutually exclusive. It's hard (or plain impossible) to use live view in near complete dark conditions for a long(er) exposure shot (moonlit/starlit landscape, astro stuff, you name it), that's where a good solid low light AF matters. It is also important to photographers working with ND filter.

So, I agree, most of the time people do have a point when they say what is a -3 EV AF worth when your photos will be crap anyway in those conditions. But they tend to forget and ignore that there actually are certain scenarios where it is very useful and your photos will still turn out great.

Take his work example:

https://photography-on-the.net …54422&highlight​=6D+review

This issue is actually a bit similar to the discussion regarding DR. I know I'm opening a can of worms here, but I do see the parallel. Most people out there do not shoot in situations where you simply "can't take a photo with the 6D/5DIII while you can with a Nikon D600/800 or Sony" (I've read that before). But there are people who need all the last bit of DR and use whatever camera has the best DR to achieve their shot (while sacrificing features they don't need as much, such as fps, ergonomics etc.; features that others may consider more important). In the meantime, you or I and most people are fine with our 6D, 5DIII, etc. We prioritize features of our cameras differently.
Same with this -3 EV AF. Most people are not going to need that little bit of extra AF sensitivity. But there are certain people, to whom it matters a lot.


SONY A7RIII | SONY A7III | SONY RX10 IV | SONY RX100 | 24-70 2.8 GM | 70-200 2.8 GM | 16-35 F/4 | PZ 18-105 F/4 | FE 85 1.8 | FE 28-70 | SIGMA 35 1.4 ART | SIGMA 150-600 C | ROKINON 14 2.8
Gabe Balazs Photo (external link)
Nature Shots Portfolio (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Charlie
Guess What! I'm Pregnant!
16,265 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 6330
Joined Sep 2007
     
Mar 13, 2014 10:26 |  #268

MakisM1 wrote in post #16755324 (external link)
I wondered myself when this -3EV center AF would be of value. The other thing I came up with is flash photography, if no form of AF assist is available... A bit of a stretch, but there you have it... :rolleyes:

As far as I'm concerned, the -3ev is not only for lowlight, but backlit items indoors even darker skin. Center tends to lock better on those subjects compared to the 5dc center. Of course for the occasional night photography, it really shines.

Really don't use flash often and prefer ocf when I do.

Don't use the WiFi much for landscapes either... Only thing the camera lacks is a high performance AF system and high end firmware. Heck, if the AF matched the 70d, sales of the 5d3 would dry up.

I wouldn't compare it to the A7, contrast detect vs phase detect is a sizeable difference.


Sony A7riii/A9 - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - SY 24/2.8 - FE 28/2 - FE 35/2.8 - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8 - Tamron 17-28/2.8 - 28-75/2.8 RXD, 70-200/2.8 VC

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
khwaja
Senior Member
930 posts
Gallery: 6 photos
Likes: 125
Joined Aug 2012
     
Mar 13, 2014 11:34 |  #269

Hogloff wrote in post #16754362 (external link)
Exactly. Affordability is not a technical or industry leading breakthrough. There was nothing innovative added to the 6d. Just repackaged 5d stuff into a cheaper body to sell to the masses. Yes, I applaud Canon for releasing an affordable full frame camera...but innovative...give me a break. Its sort of calling the EOS-M as being innovative because it's cheap.

is 100D considered as breakthrough. It is another alternative to mirrorless with miniaturization of its familiar SLR design.


Canon 6D Mark 2, 50mm STM

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
ERJL
Senior Member
Avatar
384 posts
Joined Dec 2012
Location: Sacramento, CA
     
Mar 13, 2014 11:40 |  #270
bannedPermanent ban

Hogloff wrote in post #16755252 (external link)
Don't own the A7R yet. Been too busy with business. Will be purchasing one as soon as business allows me more time.

I am working on a website...so soon. I print large prints and that is where the extra pixels and the dynamic range really shine. Web sized images have a way to neutralize all cameras as I've seen some great web images shot from cell phones.

As far as convincing you...you need to do that yourself. Go and rent one for a weekend and you'll be convinced. I have zero interest in convincing anyone. I just state my opinions.

I have rented the a7r for a weekend, just presumed you were speaking from experience since you are so opinionated about the little Sony's virtues. Would still like to see some of your fine art landscapes, even if taken with other cameras, so I can see why the a7r is something you have to have.

I own a 6D and had the Nik D600 for about a month. My sister has a 5D mkiii which I use somewhat often. She is a birder and speed of focus is paramount. Neither of us can imagine putting the 400mm DO L or either of our 100-400L lenses on such a minute body as the Sony and carrying it around. I like the idea of a larger mp sensor, but in practicality I get everything needed from my 20mp sensor even when printing 16-20 or 16-24 sized images. Oh, and the Sony is definitely slower focusing on fast moving objects in real life situations....or in low ambient light which my 6D handles quite well. Now if we could git them little birdies to just "stand still and pose" the a7r would be more workable:p
I didn't really do any landscape shooting with it, hence my query for your images.


-ERJL

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

24,262 views & 0 likes for this thread
Breakthrough camera, the 6d or sony a7r?
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is dsk26894
1135 guests, 348 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.