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Thread started 02 Apr 2014 (Wednesday) 09:39
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Model fighting for exclusive rights. help

 
gvpix
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Apr 02, 2014 09:39 |  #1

I shot a model foe free a few years ago. I cant find the contract/release form but it was on a TF basis. She aked me to delete off facebook and i did. but i told her i plan to use the image later .. now she wants everything i got on her completety deleted off my HD.
i told her if she wanted that she would have to pay $1000 she said she rather get a laywer. so this ( a fb friend) lawyer sent me a message: "Hey quick question, my friend xxxx was trying to have her previous photos removed from your portfolio. Not sure if you ever use them, because I've never even seen them myself, but how does that work? Do you reuse any previously photos or do you move onto new ones? I'm not sure how your contract is set up but I'd like to make a personal request that you have hers erased. She's been a good friend of mine and I'd like to acquiesce her request. If it's not too much trouble I'd really appreciate it."
my question is if i cant find the release form what rights do i still have for the photos?




  
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cory1848
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Apr 02, 2014 09:47 |  #2

Proof is in the writing... If you don't have it, how do you prove it?

Avoid the headache and just remove from public view. Not worth the time messing with this IMO.


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i_am_cdn
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Apr 02, 2014 09:50 |  #3

I am not a lawyer, but first thing, do not respond to his questions. Anything you say can be used in court. The most I would say to him is you took photos and you own the copyright. This is a fishing expedition by a "possible lawyer" looking to get you to say something that can be used to make a case. Don't give them anything they can use.

If they had a case the lawyer would be sending you a formal request. Until you get a formal request, you can just ignore them. At that point you get yourself a lawyer if you want to fight it.

They will never be able to get you to delete them, no court would agree to that, as they are your property.

It will depend on your country of origin as to your rights, In Canada, you have the right to use the photos in Editorial, but you can not use them Commercially. So you can put them on your website, and on facebook all you want, just not associate them with a product.

Really she has no case, so let her spend the money to figure that out herself


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1000WordsPhotography
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Apr 02, 2014 11:12 |  #4

Let me preface all of this with the fact that I'm not a lawyer. However this is what I think is true. Technically I'd say its what I know/believe to be true but its possible I'm wrong.

As far as copyright under US law you own it. You have complete control over :

- If It can be reproduced
- If derivative works can be prepared based on the photo
- If it can be distributed including but not =limited to being sold, given, lended and/or leased
- If it can be displayed publicly

Even without a model release these things are true. If you shot her in a home , hotel or somewhere else she could expect to have a certain amount of privacy she could counter that you are invading her right to privacy but in a studio or public place she should have no such expectation of privacy.

So the bottom line is you don't owe here any answer whatsoever. If you want to take the picture down then take it down. If you don't, then don't. I might again offer her the opportunity to buy the copyright for her picture but for the most part the one time I've been asked to remove a picture I didn't unitl I was good and ready to remove it.


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Miki ­ G
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Apr 02, 2014 11:15 |  #5

i_am_cdn wrote in post #16803964 (external link)
I am not a lawyer, but first thing, do not respond to his questions. Anything you say can be used in court. The most I would say to him is you took photos and you own the copyright. This is a fishing expedition by a "possible lawyer" looking to get you to say something that can be used to make a case. Don't give them anything they can use.

If they had a case the lawyer would be sending you a formal request. Until you get a formal request, you can just ignore them. At that point you get yourself a lawyer if you want to fight it.

They will never be able to get you to delete them, no court would agree to that, as they are your property.

It will depend on your country of origin as to your rights, In Canada, you have the right to use the photos in Editorial, but you can not use them Commercially. So you can put them on your website, and on facebook all you want, just not associate them with a product.

Really she has no case, so let her spend the money to figure that out herself

^^ This ^^




  
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cory1848
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Apr 02, 2014 12:08 |  #6

i_am_cdn wrote in post #16803964 (external link)
I am not a lawyer, but first thing, do not respond to his questions. Anything you say can be used in court. The most I would say to him is you took photos and you own the copyright. This is a fishing expedition by a "possible lawyer" looking to get you to say something that can be used to make a case. Don't give them anything they can use.

If they had a case the lawyer would be sending you a formal request. Until you get a formal request, you can just ignore them. At that point you get yourself a lawyer if you want to fight it.

They will never be able to get you to delete them, no court would agree to that, as they are your property.

It will depend on your country of origin as to your rights, In Canada, you have the right to use the photos in Editorial, but you can not use them Commercially. So you can put them on your website, and on facebook all you want, just not associate them with a product.

Really she has no case, so let her spend the money to figure that out herself

She may not have a case but she can and probably will bad mouth the OP's name all over the net. Is it really worth it for a TFP model on a power trip?

Talking about lawyers and court cases, etc, why go to that extreme? Just talk with them and come to a civilized conclusion. Unless one is bored and has lots of money to blow trying to make a point and not hurting their pride.

I treat it like a business decision, if it is going to cost me more than what I would make, let it go.


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nathancarter
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Apr 02, 2014 12:15 |  #7

Why does she want them gone?
Are they bad photos, and she feels that you are poorly representing her image?
Did you have a personal falling-out or other grievance, and she just wants to be completely disassociated from you?
Is there other relevant information that could help us give you reasonable advice?


I have a feeling that she didn't just call you up out of the blue and demand that you delete all your originals. I have another feeling that this is going to be a big "learning experience" for everyone involved, before it's over.


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NewCreation
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Apr 02, 2014 12:16 |  #8

cory1848 wrote in post #16804309 (external link)
She may not have a case but she can and probably will bad mouth the OP's name all over the net. Is it really worth it for a TFP model on a power trip?

Talking about lawyers and court cases, etc, why go to that extreme? Just talk with them and come to a civilized conclusion. Unless one is bored and has lots of money to blow trying to make a point and not hurting their pride.

I treat it like a business decision, if it is going to cost me more than what I would make, let it go.

^^^+1 to this. The difference is between being right and smart. It may cost way more in bad press to be right.


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S.Horton
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Apr 02, 2014 12:19 |  #9

This happens in my business from time-to-time.

If the person involved is of no consequence and has no influence, you can ignore her/him entirely and probably get away with it.

If you're not certain of that, pull it down fast, because bad news travels about 9x as fast as good. And that could be expensive.

As for communication, just shut up. No win there at all.


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peeaanuut
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Apr 02, 2014 12:24 |  #10

Tell them you disincline to acquiesce to their request. It means no. (gotta love Pirates)


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S.Horton
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Apr 02, 2014 12:29 |  #11

Seriously, I'd stop talking, wait a month, then pull them down, just to waste their time, as they have yours, in particular by being a (supposed) liar, then sicking what appears to be a non-litigator and curiously stupid attorney on you via FB.


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Blaster6
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Apr 02, 2014 12:56 |  #12

gvpix wrote in post #16803940 (external link)
my question is if i cant find the release form what rights do i still have for the photos?

What do you WANT to do with the photos? Portfollio use does not require a release.

Now you just need to decide what it is worth to you to fight for your legal rights.

The weakly worded letter from the lawyer could be paraphrased to read: "I know this chick has absolutely no legal basis to ask you to do this but would you just do it anyway so it is less trouble for both of us?"

I don't think this is a fishing expedition by a possible lawyer... probably a real lawyer just asking a favor. At the very least I can tell the writer does not feel there is a case.


No, I never claimed to be outstanding in the field of photography. I said I was out standing in the field taking photos.

  
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Andrushka
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Apr 02, 2014 13:08 |  #13

You have TF shots from a few years ago that you want to continue using in your portfolio?

Just shoot some new TF models and freshen things up. Ignore the crazies... they can't remove something from your portfolio anyway. But this model/lawyer sound like some folks to be avoided.

I'd just respond to the model if she presses you - NOT the lawyer - and say - "oh no worries I've refreshed my portfolio several times since we last worked together."

I actually had a falling out with some friends when I was early into photography where the wife of the couple had "modeled" for a shoot one time. They (the husband) later asked that I remove/discard all the photos from that shoot, well she was cute and looked good in the portfolio at the time, but honestly within a few months of that I had improved significantly in my skill and wouldn't have shown those photos in my port anyway. So rather than arguing the fine points of copyright law, I said "no worries" and moved on.


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sandpiper
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Apr 02, 2014 13:18 |  #14

Firstly, if you are going to ask questions about such things on here, it helps a great deal if you fill in your location on your profile. Laws vary from country to country and, without knowing where you are, it is hard to give accurate advice. In the majority of western countries, you have the copyright and can do what you like with the images so long as they aren't used commercially, in a manner which may cause defamation, or were taken in an area where the person has a reasonable expectation of privacy without their knowledge.

So, if you are in the USA, Canada, UK etc., you most likely have every right to use them for portfolio purposes. Whether you should comes down to either having sympathy with the model, or the possibility that using them could give you more trouble than they are worth.

In the first instance, having sympathy for the model, it would depend (for me) on why they didn't want them online and also how they asked. I am far more likely to go along with the request if they ask nicely and especially if they have a good reason. Have they said WHY they want the images taken down? Some models do one or two nude shoots then discover that should they be seen by anybody where they work, they could lose their jobs. Schools for example don't like pupils passing around nude pictures of their teachers, downloaded from the Internet. Other times they may get religion, or find that they have family issues with the pictures being online. If they had such a valid reason, and asked nicely, I would simply take down the shots, there are plenty more people I can post photos of.

Of course, if they got snotty straight off and started making demands and threats, I would leave the pictures up and maybe even post them elsewhere as well.




  
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seres
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Apr 02, 2014 13:20 |  #15

i_am_cdn wrote in post #16803964 (external link)
I am not a lawyer, but first thing, do not respond to his questions. Anything you say can be used in court. The most I would say to him is you took photos and you own the copyright. This is a fishing expedition by a "possible lawyer" looking to get you to say something that can be used to make a case. Don't give them anything they can use.

If they had a case the lawyer would be sending you a formal request. Until you get a formal request, you can just ignore them. At that point you get yourself a lawyer if you want to fight it.

They will never be able to get you to delete them, no court would agree to that, as they are your property.

It will depend on your country of origin as to your rights, In Canada, you have the right to use the photos in Editorial, but you can not use them Commercially. So you can put them on your website, and on facebook all you want, just not associate them with a product.

Really she has no case, so let her spend the money to figure that out herself

Excellent post!

Then consider this if the model pressures you...

Andrushka wrote in post #16804453 (external link)
....I'd just respond to the model if she presses you - NOT the lawyer - and say - "oh no worries I've refreshed my portfolio several times since we last worked together.".....


—Eric

  
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