Arrgg..how to handle this...

Porky101 telling porkies... oh the irony

nathancarter wrote in post #16786200
You can't arbitrarily apply the same posing rules to every subject. "shoulders hunched forward" is a particularly odd one, and "chin slightly down" is a recipe for an unflattering double chin.

I couldn't agree more. The last thing some women want or need is for their breasts to appear larger. Some would like their eyes to appear larger, and squinting has the opposite effect.

OP, your shoot was part of a celebration among a group of female friends. There was no reason to try for "come and get it" sexy images unless they said they wanted that style.

ye I know, at the time my mindset was different.

I dont mean squint like that...ill find the article...you squeeze the muscles under your eyes

porky101 wrote in post #16786486
ye I know, at the time my mindset was different.

I dont mean squint like that...ill find the article...you squeeze the muscles under your eyes

"Your elbow is not flattering. I read it in a book."

...don't bother showing us your sources: this is a photography forum and posing people is what many of us do for a living.

You need to throw away the posing manuals and the technical books for a little bit. If you can't capture genuine emotions getting everything technically correct won't help you. Go do a personal project or two. Find something to feed your soul. Clear your head.

Then start putting together a blueprint of the photographer you want to be. Get rid of the baggage. Stop using negative words. Learn the basics of running a business. Stop pretending to be a photographer in business and go out there and actually be one. Good luck: I really mean that.

thanks

Lindsay Adler Posing tutorial. That is where I learned about elbows in photo's


Heres a useful tutorial if anyone is interested:

http://blog.lindsayadl​erphotography.com …emale-ipad-and-iphone-app

I clicked through to the link. Elbows are visible in EVERY SAMPLE IMAGE on the page.

http://blog.lindsayadl​erphotography.com …ds/2012/07/ff-feature.jpg

its the way she positions the elbows, she doesent hide them....read her work

porky, suggested poses for fashion shoots won't work every time in other situations. Fashion photography mostly uses very tall models who are underweight. Of course you'll want to create an illusion to make their breasts look larger because they have almost no breasts to begin with. Fashion images often make models look either glamorous and seductive or emotionally remote--the emphasis is on the clothes, handbags, perfume, or whatever's being sold. An informal photo of friends with various body types having fun needs a different approach.

can you link me to a source that would be more suitable for the type of shoot I did...I was trying to copy those "glamorous" types of poses...perhaps more "family friendly" ones would have been more fitting for such a shoot.

I don't have a source to link to, but POTN is a huge resource right here. Try spending a lot of time looking at engagement shoots in Weddings to absorb what makes them look happy. It may be a good idea to talk more to clients in advance, find out what they want out of the session.

porky101 wrote in post #16785510
...Anyways to sum up what I have learned is essentially these points :


1) Have a written contract explaining in detail what the photographers obligations are and the clients obligations (Be as specific as possible)
2) Know who your client is and deal only with your client (Believe it or not...I never knew this until everyone here told me)
3) Stand up for yourself , dont let people walk over you. But know when you are wrong and learn from it.
....

Before I add, I have not seen your shots (no link to them that I could find or I might have more), and I do not currently shoot for money only, for fun.

From this post so far (and possibly just life) I have also gathered the following beyond what you listed.

- Be forthright and honest in all your dealings (statements as well as abilities). If you misrepresenting the truth in one place, it will/can be assumed you may also misrepresent it elsewhere.

By the age of 25, you should know what a lie is. Yes, I understand that if someone asks if they look overweight the answer should almost always be no. That said if you can’t figure out that type of “lie” versus a truly meaningful business lie, then you are not ready for a service business profession.

Saying (in writing) that your equipment is out for repair when you really don’t have it is just not good business sense, and was unnecessary.

- Do not berate a client on a public or private board. Negative things in writing can come back to haunt you. At best it hurts credibility, at worst it is slanderous and libel. Also not good business sense. In business as most areas of life, it is almost always better to be nice!

You are not to determine what is nice/attractive or not nice; you are to take the best possible image of what the client wants with the best of your ability. If you decide to make a comment, again make a positive comment. Otherwise it might be better to get out of service photography and do only fine art photography.

- If it is needed, politely explain to others beyond your client that you are obligated to fulfill only the client’s demands.

Somethings like shooting a friend's birthday should be self explanatory of who the main (no not the only, just the main) subject is. Though that is for the client to demand (before they complete the transaction).

- Payment on delivery means the contract is fulfilled and that deal should be ended.

Take all that is given to you here and elsewhere as helpful criticism (whether it is friendly or not, asked for or not) that can be used to improve you and your work.

porky101 wrote in post #16787949
can you link me to a source that would be more suitable for the type of shoot I did...I was trying to copy those "glamorous" types of poses...perhaps more "family friendly" ones would have been more fitting for such a shoot.

That's where practice comes in. You can read and read all you want but if you cannot go to a shoot and be able to think of poses and such on the fly, you are going to have trouble. You are the one that sees the model(s) in your viewfinder. No amount of looking at photos or asking people what poses to use will help 100% as every shoot is different and poses that work for one shoot might look horrible on another model.

All good points. thanks guys...my head was in the wrong place when I did the shoot, I should have made the birthday girl feel special and I ultimately failed at that.
As said earlier, its 10% photography and 90%Psychology

I have not heard back from them so i'm assuming i'm in the clear at this point.

OMG.

It never ends.

Client calls me today they want a full refund. At first I agreed and said sure.

I then thought about it for a second, and you know what, I did what I needed to do....I delivered a total of about 50 edited photo's . (28 initially then I sent an extra 20 of photo's I never thought were great(when I say great, I mean they were cool but nothing amazing. Not like the first 28 atleast)) I completed my side of the deal!

So I told her I have done my job and I will not be giving a refund.
I have about 10 people calling me now, ranging from parents to friends of friends etc etc....

Then I get emails telling me I must take them off my facebook page as it is their photo's and I am illegally using their photo's. And they going to sue me. I said, great sue me. They were not happy with my response. For now I am keeping the photo's up...I really think they are awsome pictures.

Maybe I should have just refunded them and be done with these people?

I have been just putting down the phone.....I seriosly dont understand how I have managed to piss these people off soo much. That or they are crazy. Either way what this has turned into over nothing is an achievement in itself!

Before I would have said to take this as a learning opportunity.

Now I might say to stand your ground (but its not my money).

First, you should have never verbally agreed to a refund and then not followed through. Does anyone know if this constitutes a verbal agreement?

Second, I would no longer communicate with anyone about this matter. If you get threats to sue you, you either give in or direct all communication to your lawyer through their lawyer. If you choose to communicate with anyone, I would communicate with either only your client, or the girls themselves (probably only your client). They are not minors so you have no reason not to communicate directly with them.

Third, I think I would remove the pictures. I would imagine that someone might consider a facebook page advertising. Since there was no written contract, I assume you also don't have a model release from each of these girls.