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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 14 Apr 2014 (Monday) 10:14
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7DII delay reported

 
TSmith8779
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Apr 14, 2014 10:14 |  #1

http://www.thephoblogr​apher.com …ng-problems/#.U0v67WcU9D9 (external link)

Not sure if this belongs here or in rumors. Hope I made the right decision.

Will we ever have a 7DII?


Canon 6D & 7D. Panasonic GX85 and a number of ever changing lenses.

  
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TeleFragger
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Apr 14, 2014 10:17 |  #2

thanks for that.. im still saving up some cash with my truck for sale and a few other things.. i was hoping if all my stuff sells that it would be released but i dont expect it. Might just go for a used 1md4...


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rick_reno
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Apr 14, 2014 11:39 |  #3

The horror, the horror.




  
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amfoto1
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Apr 14, 2014 14:20 |  #4

Their rumor-based camera specs really don't show very much change from the current 7D.

The main diffs...

- Different sensor (the 20MP ala 70D... no surprise there)
- "Touch screen"... well, maybe, though I'm not entirely sure this makes sense in a more pro-oriented camera.
- WiFi.... Nope. I seriously doubt it will be built in and hope not. More likely, 7D II will use a WFT module for considerably greater range and more reliable data transfer than built-in WiFi offers. That makes more sense for a more pro-oriented camera. Canon put built-in WiFi in 70D and 6D, and various point n shoot models. 5DIII and 1DX (as well as 5DII, 7D, 50D, 40D and various 1D series) rely upon separate and more powerful WFT modules.

- Quieter shutter.... good. Let's hope so. (Though it was more needed on the FF cameras.)

- Buffer: 15 RAW, 126 JPEG? Let's hope not. That would be a bit of a downgrade from the current 7D's 25 RAW, 130 JPEG.

- ISO 25600... another "yawner". Same as 70D. One stop higher than current 7D.

Not mentioned...

- MFA ver. 2.0. I'm sure 7D II will have the 40-lens capable Micro Focus Adjustment feature found on 70D, 6D, 5DIII & 1DX. That's up from the 20-lens MFA on 7D.

- Bracketing. No doubt the 7D II will get expanded bracketing capabilities, same as found on 70D.

- Battery grip. Wouldn't be surprised to see a new battery grip featuring a secondary joystick, 5DIII style. Heck, maybe the 7D II will even share the same battery grip as 5DIII. (Geez I wish Canon would name their battery grips more sensibly, to match the camera model: 7D just happens to use BG-E7... 7D II should use BG-E7 II, not BG-E15. 70D should have used BG-E70, not BG-E14. 6D should have used BG-E6, not BG-E13. 5DIII should have used BG-E5 III, not BG-E11. Etc.)

- Discrete AF chip. One of the best things about the current 7D is the AF system. In part this is likely due to it's using a discrete AF chip, 1D-style, and not sharing AF duties through the main processor like the "lesser" models do. Hope Canon continues this in the 7D II.

- AF pattern choices. 7D's AF is a little more sophisticated than the 70D's (has two AF pattern modes that the 70D lacks: Spot Focus and Expansion points). I hope Canon builds on that, doesn't "downgrade" it to only three focus patterns (All Points/Auto, Single Point/Manual and Zone Focus).

- Macro AF... One of the relatively unheralded features of the current 7D is it's special AI Servo focus mode when using the camera with any of the Canon USM macro lenses (EF-S 60/2.8, 100/2.8 USM, 100L IS, and 180L). AI Servo in normal usage is designed to update subject distance every so often (a number of times per second, I'm sure). Now with 7D and those particular lenses... when focused close, at higher macro magnifications... the focus distance is checked 4X as often for greater accuracy. I don't know if any other Canon cameras do this or not. But it's a nice feature and can make for better handheld macro shooting capabilities. I hope Canon carries this over into the 7D II.

- Dual processors? Not sure if needed with Digic 5+. Current 7D uses dual Digic 4 to be able to shoot at 8 fps. But current 7D also has to slow down for metering and focusing, often doesn't fully deliver on the 8 fps. If they would make 8 fps more possible and/or Canon tries to push the frame rate a little higher, dual processors might be needed.

- Dual memory card slots. Those would be nice.... Personally I'd prefer two CF slots... but we'd probably get one each CF and SD, same as 5DIII. That's okay too (depending upon how the slots are used, can have some advantages, in fact).

I noticed a $200 Instant Rebate on 7D recently. Wouldn't be surprised if that were a sign of an impending announcement.


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TJays
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Apr 14, 2014 14:30 |  #5

Yawn, the best 7D2 is already made, they call it a 5D3..


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apersson850
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Apr 14, 2014 14:57 as a reply to  @ TJays's post |  #6

What would motivate the existence of a 7D Mark II would of course be a lower cost than the 5D Mark III.

The 7D slows down continuous shooting due to the iFCL metering system. The 1DX uses the same type of metering system, but doesn't slow down, so that's just an issue with the first implementation of iFCL. It had nothing to do with a single or dual Digic processors.


Anders

  
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Keyan
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Apr 14, 2014 15:24 |  #7

apersson850 wrote in post #16833261 (external link)
What would motivate the existence of a 7D Mark II would of course be a lower cost than the 5D Mark III.

The 7D slows down continuous shooting due to the iFCL metering system. The 1DX uses the same type of metering system, but doesn't slow down, so that's just an issue with the first implementation of iFCL. It had nothing to do with a single or dual Digic processors.

The 1DX has dual Digic 5+ processors for image processing - and a separate Digic 4 that exists only for the metering and AF system, which is completely different from any other Canon camera, it uses a full color 100k point metering system in 252 zones that is tied to the AF system to detect and track the target through the frame and can be set to meter on that subject. Saying the metering is the same type is like saying a sedan is like a Ferrari because both are cars... The new 7D won't have something this advanced either, so it could still be prone to a slow down.


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Keyan
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Apr 14, 2014 15:33 |  #8

amfoto1 wrote in post #16833175 (external link)
Their rumor-based camera specs really don't show very much change from the current 7D.

- "Touch screen"... well, maybe, though I'm not entirely sure this makes sense in a more pro-oriented camera.

- Discrete AF chip. One of the best things about the current 7D is the AF system. In part this is likely due to it's using a discrete AF chip, 1D-style, and not sharing AF duties through the main processor like the "lesser" models do. Hope Canon continues this in the 7D II.


The touchscreen is actually something that when you have it, you will like it. Especially with dual pixel AF, a lot of the dual pixel functions are driven or enhanced by touch features.

The AF chip thing is still something that bugs me. It's entirely possible, and likely, that Canon has integrated some of those AF functions into the Digic 5+. Just like chips in mobile devices have dedicated areas on the chip itself for decoding MPEG4 video, AAC audio, etc, the same is likely for the Digic5+, if Canon can integrate more advanced AF control on to a single chip it saves them money.


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Jarvis ­ Creative ­ Studios
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Apr 14, 2014 15:51 |  #9

If these are the specs then screw it. Pretty much same exact camera add 2 useless megapixels? Where's our 1.3x crop? Where's our 8-9fps with a much higher buffer? Where is our 41 cross type af system? These are actual spec changes. I would be fine keeping 18mp for all that. If it's $2200 at release so what? That's still way cheaper than the 5D3. The 5D3 isn't the end all camera, so canon needs to stop being so scared to go near it with any other bodies that don't say 1d on them.


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apersson850
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Apr 15, 2014 02:17 |  #10

Keyan wrote in post #16833332 (external link)
The 1DX has dual Digic 5+ processors for image processing - and a separate Digic 4 that exists only for the metering and AF system,

No, the AF system uses the RISC based type of processor they've used for AF for a while now. The 7D has a similar design. The Digic 4 in the 1DX is to handle metering, not AF.

... which is completely different from any other Canon camera, it uses a full color 100k point metering system in 252 zones that is tied to the AF system to detect and track the target through the frame and can be set to meter on that subject.

The 100K pixel sensor is specific for the 1DX, that's true, and that's why the Digic 4 chip is involved in interpreting it. It's also true that it cooperates with the AF system for tracking subjects. But the AF system has it's own CPU in both cameras, as I wrote above. In evaluative mode, they both factor in the result of the focusing in the metering equation, but I think you are mixing this up with the ability to link spot metering to the active AF point. That's something different, something which has been available long before the introduction of iFCL metering.

Saying the metering is the same type is like saying a sedan is like a Ferrari because both are cars...

Saying this just shows you don't know how iFCL works. The intelligent Focus Color Luminance metering system is different in how it links the different informaiton available together.
First, iFCL is always using a color sensitive metering chip, even in the 7D. The difference is that the 7D doesn't have all the pixels in the light meter as the 1DX has.
Second, iFCL always factors in all AF points, used or not, into the equation. The idea behind this is that when using evaluative metering, the camera will see not only which AF points you are using, but also if AF points not used are in focus, or nearly so. If they are, then it's not too unlikely that the subject is covered by these AF points too, since they are also more or less in focus, so there's something there at about the same distance as the subject is. The light metering part of iFCL then puts more weight to the metering result for zones covered by AF points that aren't used, but still nearly in focus, than it does to zones where the AF points aren't in focus at all, or where there are no AF points.
It's this evaluation of the non-used AF points that takes a longer time in low light conditions on the 7D. Since the 7D always does this evaluation, regardless of whether it's needed or not (the only exception is when using AE lock), this time delay will impact max continuous drive speed on the 7D, when AF takes a long time to assess. It's here later cameras have fixed this problem, by simply cancelling this collection of auxiliary information from the AF system, if the time needed to collect it is too long. Thus this is a system design question, as far as the software goes, nothing that has to do with the hardware the camera is equipped with.

The new 7D won't have something this advanced either, so it could still be prone to a slow down.

How the metering system will work in the successor to the 7D neither you nor I know, but the point is that it doesn't matter, since this particular limitaiton of the 7D is reasonably easy to program your way around.
The only thing that surprises me is why they didn't bother to do this same fix for the 7D, when the 2.0 firmware was released. Seems to me that they should have.
Anyway, newer cameras with iFCL don't suffer from this problem, even if they aren't the 1DX, so this is not an issue any longer.


Anders

  
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Paulstw
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Apr 15, 2014 03:41 |  #11

It's an absolute yawn fest waiting on this camera.




  
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apersson850
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Apr 15, 2014 04:36 as a reply to  @ Paulstw's post |  #12

That depends entirely on the price, I'd say. Good specifications at competitive pricing is always attractive, even if the specifications aren't groundbreaking.


Anders

  
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Apr 15, 2014 05:27 |  #13

So there is a delay......on a camera that hasn't actually been announced yet...... seems legit...:rolleyes:


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Apr 15, 2014 05:30 |  #14

I ended my 7D 2 wait...and bought a 70D a few weeks ago. When/if the 7D 2 comes out, I'll wait and see if it's vastly better than my 70D.


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CollegeKid
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Apr 15, 2014 05:57 |  #15
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rick_reno wrote in post #16832736 (external link)
The horror, the horror.

How appropriate. Colonel Kurtz and the 7DII, both fictitious characters. If the second coming of the 7D takes as long as that of Colonel Kurtz, you've still got about 75 years to wait.




  
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