Why do artists expect us to work for free..

Honestly, the artists think you are an extension of the groupie culture and their beliefs are often validated because if you won't someone else will.

darrell52 wrote in post #16531627
Economics 100. The law of supply and demand.

Exactly. And supply is still growing.

I've been playing in bands for 20 years now and in order to see any kind of success or publicity, you need a lot of favours to go your way. I find being a musician is a lot like being a photographer. When you’re first learning, you practice at home, you go to jam nights to learn your chops… no different than going to photo meetups to learn from others. If you’re into portrait photography, maybe you’ll do a few sessions with friends and family for free because it’s something you enjoy and you’re building your experience. Same thing with your first band… you play house parties or around the campfire because it’s fun and you learn from it.

I can understand why bands look for freebies when it comes to photography/website design/video production. Going on Craigslist and finding a newbie looking for experience goes back to their own starting days when they would kill to do a recording session for free if it meant getting their name on a CD. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with asking an inexperienced shooter for pro bono work. BUT, there’s a big difference if they’re asking experienced pro’s to work for free. That’s just plain ignorant.

I’m still new to photography, but if I get asked to do a music gig without pay because ‘it will be fun’, I just shake my head. People say “you’re just in it for the money”… well the art isn’t about the money, but my time/work/gear/effort definitely is.

[/rant]

Glad to hear you guys had positive outcomes with your stories! Greazyjungle, looked through your site, great stage images!

I see it slightly differently from some of the posts here. I used to play in bands in the 80's and 90's and we did our share of low paying ( if at all ) gigs to build on our audience so it wasn't just family and friends turning up. When we could pull a crowd we started getting asked to play and got paid more than just a crate of beer and cut from the bar takings eventually.

I only started shoot live bands a few years ago so I wanted to build on my experience and get access to gigs, so I would turn up and take shots for the photo pass and maybe get a beer or two out of it as well. Without that access to bands I wouldn't have the chance to work on doing it.

Right now I don't think I'm good enough to ask for money from a young up and coming band, or a band that has day jobs and does gigs to sell tickets and CDs to finance their next recording ( most of the bands I shoot are in this position ). But, if I ever got asked to shoot a band that had money to spare, of course I'd request payment. In fact if I didn't like the band but they paid enough, I guess I'd take their pictures if it meant I could invest what they pay me back into getting gear ( not happened yet though, maybe never will ).

Sometimes a contact I have at a venue that does medium sized gigs gets me a photo pass, but only if not enough working/pro photogs are not turning up in the first place, at other gigs the band know me from other band shoots I've done and they or their promoter get me a pass. More recently I've been writing/shooting for some music sites that ask me to go along. ( Sites run by music fans so they are not making money either ).

I think my long winded point is, people need to start somewhere and get some kind of experience in the first place so that they can hone their style and create contacts. So while shooting for "free" initially might not get you paid, in the long run you might get access to shows that do get you paid later on.


EDIT : Happy that the OP and another poster had great outcomes to this. My post/reply is really in general and not specific to the subject per se

I guess I've been fortunate. My experience has been that performers, both music and other media, who actually make their living from their craft have always offered to pay for images. They understand that photography is my business. Locals tend to have no budget for photos or marketing, and they are usually not really running a business anyway. I really don't care if they swipe a photo, or if they are friends, I'll give them a photo.

ive shot some pics of a local blues guitarist and other bands at local art/music fairs and usually just post them to facebook because theyre not doing it for the money, im not doing this as a profession and it helps promote the local fairs/festivals...

the blues guy wants me to travel to Mississippi with him and his wife and other band members and shoot pics of them and of the festival...

hes not a professional musician per se (electrician like myself but different type of electrical) but hes paying $200 for my work and time. my cost will be airfare and food/drink. he's gotten lodging all secured and ill split the cost of a rental car...

i may have potential for sales to other artists or not but im sure it will be a great time...

darrell52 wrote in post #16531407
Why do artists expect us to work for free..

But you already did work for free, didn't you? You went to their event and shot the photos, and you did that on your own, without anyone paying you to do it, right? Well, if that's the case then it looks to me like you already did the work for free.

I don't think they are asking you to work for free; rather, I think they are asking you to give them some intellectual property for free. There is a huge difference. If they were asking you to work for free, that would be them asking you to do a shoot for them and do so without compensation. All they seem to be asking for is an image that you already created. They are not asking you to provide photographic services.

I would think that you could offer the artist a deal; you give them a copy of the photo in exchange for a copy of one of their CDs. If they accept, then it seems to me like they are being completely reasonable. If they refuse, then it would look to me as if they are being unreasonable, as they are asking you to give them some of your intellectual property for free, but are unwilling to respond in kind.

_______________ _______________
I do know that your situation was resolved with you receiving compensation, but I wanted to make a point, and thought I could best present my view if I wrote it out the same way I would if I didn't know the outcome of your situation.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #17696072
But you already did work for free, didn't you? You went to their event and shot the photos, and you did that on your own, without anyone paying you to do it, right? Well, if that's the case then it looks to me like you already did the work for free.

I don't think they are asking you to work for free; rather, I think they are asking you to give them some intellectual property for free. There is a huge difference. If they were asking you to work for free, that would be them asking you to do a shoot for them and do so without compensation. All they seem to be asking for is an image that you already created. They are not asking you to provide photographic services.

I would think that you could offer the artist a deal; you give them a copy of the photo in exchange for a copy of one of their CDs. If they accept, then it seems to me like they are being completely reasonable. If they refuse, then it would look to me as if they are being unreasonable, as they are asking you to give them some of your intellectual property for free, but are unwilling to respond in kind.

_______________ _______________
I do know that your situation was resolved with you receiving compensation, but I wanted to make a point, and thought I could best present my view if I wrote it out the same way I would if I didn't know the outcome of your situation.

this is a thread from 2013

Ltdave wrote in post #17695999
ive shot some pics of a local blues guitarist and other bands at local art/music fairs and usually just post them to facebook because theyre not doing it for the money, im not doing this as a profession and it helps promote the local fairs/festivals...

the blues guy wants me to travel to Mississippi with him and his wife and other band members and shoot pics of them and of the festival...

hes not a professional musician per se (electrician like myself but different type of electrical) but hes paying $200 for my work and time. my cost will be airfare and food/drink. he's gotten lodging all secured and ill split the cost of a rental car...

i may have potential for sales to other artists or not but im sure it will be a great time...

you bumped a thread from 2013. can't agree with you giving away all this stuff for free. these musicians are getting paid, and getting publicity to get more gigs. paying for photos is just another cost of doing business, like instruments, studio time, gas, etc... why should photographers be the only ones left unpaid? as for the trip to Mississippi, that's crazy talk. you may not respect yourself as a photographer, but this is just wrong. you are paying your own expenses? you'll be spending more than the $200, so you are basically paying to shoot these guys. you shouldn't be paying to shoot. a tour photographer doesn't pay to be there. you are being taken advantage of. the "blues guy" will get paid. He'll be paying for his expenses, his musicians, etc. you should be getting paid too. and what happens after the gig? do you have a written contract? what are you providing him? what is the licensing arrangement? or have any of these things been discussed?

They expect it because so many people do work for free. It affects every part of the photography industry, from fashion/clothing, products, portraits, weddings, etc. I never thought I'd be "that guy", but in the last couple years I have noticed that the sheer number of hobbyists who are excited to shoot for (in my case) a clothing line and work with models "for exposure/credit" has ballooned to the point where there are more brands looking for free work than even asking for a quote or even offering a pittance. I saw a youtube video of some guy who was saying the same of concert photography and dealing with artists/labels, and I know a couple wedding photographers who have noticed a decline in the paying jobs.

It sucks, because on one hand photography being available to the masses and for an affordable price for all is a great thing...but it's throwing the whole economics of the photographer/client relationship out of whack and I doubt it'll equalize itself anytime soon. You want to really have some fun with a cheap client? Try explaining usage rights to them and watch their head almost explode lol

TLR For every one of you who expects to be paid for quality work, there are hundreds (if not more) of people who are willing to do it for free. This devalues everyone's work to the point where most negotiations start at "We want it for free" now

While this is certainly an old thread, it touches on a topic which always seems to come up.

When someone asks if I have images they can "use", I respond very politely and thank them for their interest. I then tell them that I would be happy to license the photo for X-amount, and then ask them how they would like to pay for it...