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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Nature & Landscapes Talk 
Thread started 07 Apr 2014 (Monday) 08:17
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Advice Needed for Night Shooting

 
grippy
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Apr 07, 2014 08:17 |  #1

I went on a fishing trip with some friends a few weeks back and decided to bust out my 5dmarkiii for some night shots. I have never tried this before and I quickly found out there is a science to it that I was not clicking with. Here is one of the shots I took, but its just not clear enough for my liking. (I did have the camera on a tripod)

http://ishootcanon.smu​gmug.com/NIght-Shot/n-xLqwn/i-H66V92s (external link)

Camera Settings:
F/9
Exposure Time: 30sec
ISO-10000

I know my ISO should not be as high but I couldn't determine what my settings should be set at. School me please.

-Tim


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grippy
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Apr 07, 2014 08:44 |  #2

Found this through searching.

http://zarphag.com …star-photography-a-guide/ (external link)

Posted here:
https://photography-on-the.net …t=1247263&highl​ight=stars

Very helpful indeed, but would still like to hear some other perspectives.


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HBOC
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Apr 07, 2014 14:53 |  #3

what are you trying to achieve with that picture? Milkyway brighter, more stars?

Here is a shot i got of Mt. Rainier last summer. I don't remember the settings off hand, but it was shot at f/2.8 and probably ISO 2000 for maybe 35 seconds - but i would have to look.

IMAGE: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ofbhbxRCQ18/UeTYsuRJWkI/AAAAAAAAIQI/SLrT3slp67c/s800/Rainier-Ray.jpg

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grippy
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Apr 08, 2014 07:51 |  #4

HBOC wrote in post #16816537 (external link)
what are you trying to achieve with that picture? Milkyway brighter, more stars?

Here is a shot i got of Mt. Rainier last summer. I don't remember the settings off hand, but it was shot at f/2.8 and probably ISO 2000 for maybe 35 seconds - but i would have to look.

Hey, thanks for chiming in. I am looking to get the effect that you have in that image. More stars, more in focus shots. Is that shot two shots blended together with different exposures?

Also wouldn't you want to shoot with a higher F-stop? Or does shooting at night really push the limits of your lenses and cameras ISO capabilities. I would think the longer exposure times would help even things out a bit.

-Tim


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paul3221
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Apr 08, 2014 08:37 |  #5

Shoot wide and fast. The wider the lens the longer your exposures can be without star trails. On a Full Frame Camera like yours, the rule of thumb is 600/focal length. So, with a 20mm lens, you should be able to do 30 seconds. The larger aperture the better. On a wide angle lens, you don't need to worry so much about DOF. I shoot most of mine at F2.8. Focusing can be the toughest part. I find it easiest to find a bright star or planet, zoom in with live view, and manually focus. Once you've got the focus set, you shouldn't need to touch it.


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Geonerd
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Apr 08, 2014 12:53 |  #6

ISO 10,000K?
F9??
What are you doing?
You're going to have to apply some basic photographic principles, rather than depend on your fancy camera to make everything right.

Set the lens to full wide or, if you're paranoid about sharpness, a stop less. More light = better s/n, and shorter exposures make for sharper stars. Vary shutter to achieve the level of star streaking, if any, that is acceptable. With a 24mm lens, your 30 seconds should be OK. Then run the ISO up until you get a bright enough image or run into noise issues. Keep in mind that the in-camera NR may not do kind things to faint stars.




  
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HBOC
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Apr 08, 2014 13:10 |  #7

To get the stars/milkway to show up, you need to let in as much light as possible. So the faster the lens you have, the better. I may pick up an f/1.4 lens this year :).

On my shot, it was one shot. Focused to infinity, and used ISO 1600 for 37.5 seconds. With the D700, i found higher ISO introduced more noise. I have a D600 now, so it should handle noise much better - but still wouldn't want to go a ton much higher in ISO.

The great thing about night photography is that it is trial and error. You could take the settings I used for this shot, apply them for your shot - and it may not work. The light pollution is from Seattle/Puget Sound area, so it "helped" keep my exposure shorter. But those settings would get you in the right direction.

Also I don't usually blend night shots. Only time I would do it is if I shot earlier at night (dusk) and wanted to get more of the stars when it was still a little light out.


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grippy
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Apr 08, 2014 21:32 |  #8

paul3221 wrote in post #16818445 (external link)
Shoot wide and fast. The wider the lens the longer your exposures can be without star trails. On a Full Frame Camera like yours, the rule of thumb is 600/focal length. So, with a 20mm lens, you should be able to do 30 seconds. The larger aperture the better. On a wide angle lens, you don't need to worry so much about DOF. I shoot most of mine at F2.8. Focusing can be the toughest part. I find it easiest to find a bright star or planet, zoom in with live view, and manually focus. Once you've got the focus set, you shouldn't need to touch it.

Is there a specific equation you can reference for this. I think it was mentioned in the blog I linked to but it was not spelled out. Thank you for the advise.

EDIT: After asking this I understand the math now. I was reading a little two far into it. Here is the quote from the blog I pulled which breaks it down a little more:

"Stars move at about 2.5 degrees every 10 minutes around the circumpolar positions. You can calculate exactly how long you can expose for without noticing movement but the process is a little complicated, depending on latitude, pixel pitch of the sensor, focal length, which part of the sky you are viewing etc.

A simple equation for maximum shutter time is 500/focal length (in 35mm terms).

This means a 10mm (crop) or 17mm ( 35mm) lens you can shoot about 30 seconds without seeing star movement at a decent sized print."

http://zarphag.com …ide/#sthash.1DW​2ftsK.dpuf (external link)

Geonerd wrote in post #16819105 (external link)
ISO 10,000K?
F9??
What are you doing?
You're going to have to apply some basic photographic principles, rather than depend on your fancy camera to make everything right.

Set the lens to full wide or, if you're paranoid about sharpness, a stop less. More light = better s/n, and shorter exposures make for sharper stars. Vary shutter to achieve the level of star streaking, if any, that is acceptable. With a 24mm lens, your 30 seconds should be OK. Then run the ISO up until you get a bright enough image or run into noise issues. Keep in mind that the in-camera NR may not do kind things to faint stars.

What am I doing?.....If I knew the answer to that I would never have posted. Thanks for your two cents.

HBOC wrote in post #16819154 (external link)
To get the stars/milkway to show up, you need to let in as much light as possible. So the faster the lens you have, the better. I may pick up an f/1.4 lens this year :).

On my shot, it was one shot. Focused to infinity, and used ISO 1600 for 37.5 seconds. With the D700, i found higher ISO introduced more noise. I have a D600 now, so it should handle noise much better - but still wouldn't want to go a ton much higher in ISO.

The great thing about night photography is that it is trial and error. You could take the settings I used for this shot, apply them for your shot - and it may not work. The light pollution is from Seattle/Puget Sound area, so it "helped" keep my exposure shorter. But those settings would get you in the right direction.

Also I don't usually blend night shots. Only time I would do it is if I shot earlier at night (dusk) and wanted to get more of the stars when it was still a little light out.

Do you have a high-res version of the photo? I would love to see how detail the image is. Thank you for your insight.


-Tim


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Brasher
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Apr 16, 2014 11:32 |  #9

I think what Geonerd meant is that your ISO 10,000 and F9 settings contradict each other.

You increase sensitivity if there is a shortage of light. Why would you further reduce the incoming light by stepping down the lens?

If the intent was to increase sharpness, remember two things:
1) You're focused to infinity, so your DoF is still infinity past the near point (Which is under 20ft in front of you).
2) The light available is low, which means there is less " non parallel" light to available to scatter around/blur the image sensor/film.




  
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Bianchi
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Apr 18, 2014 12:13 |  #10

I would check out this tread, lots of great tips on night shooting

https://photography-on-the.net …&highlight=samy​ang+14+2.8


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Advice Needed for Night Shooting
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