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Thread started 12 Apr 2014 (Saturday) 15:34
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Renowned Photographer Jeff Mitchum's Masterpiece "Third Day" Sells For $1.8 Million

 
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edge100
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Apr 17, 2014 09:52 |  #76

jetcode wrote in post #16840768 (external link)
What is odd is that abstract is considered an advanced art form yet it is the most difficult form to appreciate. there is a local show hanging of abstracts all fetching $6k and up and not a one of them has appeal to my eye. So while an abstract may satisfy an artist at some level it will not necessarily satisfy an audience of lesser sophistication in art.

In terms of producing an image that is appreciated I watched a snapshot of a local mountain time in high noon light and no atmospherics or general dynamics sell for $300. Not a princely sum but it sold while much more interesting works remained on the wall.

Tastes vary dramatically.

Yes.

And the point is that that 'sophistication' comes with experience and knowledge. It's not effete BS to be 'sophisticated' with respect to art, anymore than it is to be 'sophisticated' with respect to math or science (and I say this as someone with a PhD in molecular biology).


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edge100
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Apr 17, 2014 09:53 |  #77

catclaw wrote in post #16840774 (external link)
Fair enough. I can appreciate what you say about learning about art, and writing about it as an art critic. But I am someone who believes that people are either intrinsically artistic, or not. It's just a matter of unlocking the intrinsic gift. And a school isn't going to give someone the intrinsic ability, I have observed.

But school (or any kind of formal or informal learning) teaches us that which is not immediately apparent. It teaches us to appreciate things beyond our baser instinct.


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airfrogusmc
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Apr 17, 2014 09:54 |  #78

edge100 wrote in post #16840757 (external link)
One learns about art for the same reason one learns about math: to learn about things that are not immediately apparent.

Reducing all art to what is aesthetically pleasing or technically 'correct' - to the exclusion of all else - is the equivalent of reducing mathematics to the ability to count to 100.

Edge, and the really hard part of all of this is how to move beyond the basics woth your work. The easy part is learnig to mater the equipment and the very basics of aesthetics. The hard part is finding your own voice as an artist.

It's easy to be a great recorder of the obvious or to make photographs that look like everyone else's photographs. It's infinitely difficult to move beyond that and make photographs that look like your photographs. You will never got to that point without continuing to grow vertically but so many get stuck in a horizontal growth mode.




  
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Shadowblade
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Apr 17, 2014 09:54 |  #79

edge100 wrote in post #16840771 (external link)
You're missing the point.

Integral calculus is not intuitive. One must be taught how to do it.

The same is true of art.

One person's art is another person's junk.

The area of a circle is pi times the square of the radius, regardless of what your opinion is.




  
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jetcode
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Apr 17, 2014 09:55 |  #80

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16840759 (external link)
Joe I was there but I instead of crapping on things I didn't have knowledge of I went on a quest to get that knowledge and it was much harder before the world wide web. I eventually majored in college in it minored in art because I wanted to know as much as I could about what I was doing. Knowledge today is as easy at ones finger tips.

Let people crap all over art. You know best what works for you. Don't be insulted if others do not have the bandwidth for your truth. Some people aren't interested in art or personal expansion. Some feel if they study they will lose their edge. This is usually tied directly to ego. I worked with a kid who could have learned a lot from me concerning engineering but his ego needed to include this statement "I am self taught" which is a form of bragging rights in some circles. A year or two later he finally admitted he was not a software engineer. All arts are deep enough to suck down an entire life worth of study and practice.




  
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Shadowblade
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Apr 17, 2014 09:58 |  #81

edge100 wrote in post #16840778 (external link)
Yes.

And the point is that that 'sophistication' comes with experience and knowledge. It's not effete BS to be 'sophisticated' with respect to art, anymore than it is to be 'sophisticated' with respect to math or science (and I say this as someone with a PhD in molecular biology).

The difference is that there areno absolutes in art.

What's served up as 'truth' or 'knowledge' in art is merely someone's opinion, not something which can be objectively proven or supported with evidence or statistics.

'Sophistication' in art, therefore, merely means you believe and appreciate the same things that other self-designated art cognoscenti also believe and appreciate. You can't objectively prove that their opinion is more correct than that of anyone else.




  
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edge100
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Apr 17, 2014 09:58 |  #82

Shadowblade wrote in post #16840784 (external link)
One person's art is another person's junk.

The area of a circle is pi times the square of the radius, regardless of what your opinion is.

Again, missing the point. I'm not arguing with the subjectivity of art.

What I'm saying is that you can be taught things that are not intuitive in both disciplines. A baby can learn to count to 10 and to appreciate aesthetic beauty.

But there's much more to math than this.

Similarly, there's also much more to art than this.


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airfrogusmc
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Apr 17, 2014 09:59 |  #83

I have seen that in the right environment with the right nurturing that what seems to be mediocre talent can be nurtured and honed into extraordinary, A great book by Betty Edwards talks about how we all start out creative but society and our educational systems teach us to suppress or creativity.

Michael Jordan wouldn't have been the great Michael Jordan without the right coaches and of course the basic talent but the right nurturing turned talent in to what we now know as Michael Jordan.




  
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Shadowblade
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Apr 17, 2014 10:00 |  #84

edge100 wrote in post #16840770 (external link)
Looks good to whom? Isn't the expression of "what's in the artist's head" the centrally important thing?

Yep.

But just because the final product reflects what's in the artist's head doesn't make it any good, if the final product (and, by extension, what was in the artist's head) is ugly.




  
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edge100
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Apr 17, 2014 10:01 |  #85

Shadowblade wrote in post #16840797 (external link)
The difference is that there areno absolutes in art.

What's served up as 'truth' or 'knowledge' in art is merely someone's opinion, not something which can be objectively proven or supported with evidence or statistics.

'Sophistication' in art, therefore, merely means you believe and appreciate the same things that other self-designated art cognoscenti also believe and appreciate. You can't objectively prove that their opinion is more correct than that of anyone else.

No, but you *can* appreciate things beyond what is easily apparent.

It's analogous to understanding the meaning of a metaphor.

'A bird in hand is worth two in the bush' could be understood as literally meaning that it's better to have a bird in your hand than to have two in the bush. OR...it could be understood a little bit more deeply than that; in a way that, perhaps, is not immediately apparent without a little bit of thought.


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edge100
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Apr 17, 2014 10:03 |  #86

Shadowblade wrote in post #16840807 (external link)
Yep.

But just because the final product reflects what's in the artist's head doesn't make it any good, if the final product (and, by extension, what was in the artist's head) is ugly.

It most certainly *can* make it good. The subjective ugliness of something is just it's facade.


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airfrogusmc
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Apr 17, 2014 10:05 |  #87

Shadowblade wrote in post #16840784 (external link)
One person's art is another person's junk.

The area of a circle is pi times the square of the radius, regardless of what your opinion is.

Did you read what I posted here
https://photography-on-the.net …p?p=16840642&po​stcount=53

What you like or dislike is very subjective but what is or isn't art is not as subjective as many think. I can certainly not personally like something but understand why it is art.

I liked Threes Company when it was on TV, it was the #1 rated show but fully understand it was crap and I know why Citizen Kane is a masterpiece. Now whether you like something personally better is an entirely different conversation.




  
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edge100
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Apr 17, 2014 10:06 |  #88

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16840820 (external link)
Did you read what I posted here
https://photography-on-the.net …p?p=16840642&po​stcount=53

What you like or dislike is very subjective but what is or isn't art is not as subjective as many think. I can certainly not personally like something but understand why it is art.

I liked Threes Company when it was on TV, it was the #1 rated show but fully understand it was crap and I know why Citizen Kane is a masterpiece. Now whether you like something personally better is an entirely different conversation.

There's a Master's thesis waiting to be written...


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Shadowblade
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Apr 17, 2014 10:07 |  #89

edge100 wrote in post #16840801 (external link)
Again, missing the point. I'm not arguing with the subjectivity of art.

What I'm saying is that you can be taught things that are not intuitive in both disciplines. A baby can learn to count to 10 and to appreciate aesthetic beauty.

But there's much more to math than this.

Similarly, there's also much more to art than this.

Maths is objective and practical. It has proofs and practical applications which are useful both in our day-to-day lives, as well as in engineering, medicine and all the other things that make modern living what it is.

Art is subjective. It has no practical purpose beyond being decorative. If it's ugly, it's no decorative and I don't want it hanging on my wall. If it requires education in a certain way of thinking (that aligns with the way of thinking of self-designated 'experts' in art) and can't be immediately appreciated by anyone looking at it, then it's pointless.

You can also teach a baby to speak Klingon. That doesn't make it any less pointless.




  
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Shadowblade
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Apr 17, 2014 10:11 |  #90

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16840820 (external link)
Did you read what I posted here
https://photography-on-the.net …p?p=16840642&po​stcount=53

What you like or dislike is very subjective but what is or isn't art is not as subjective as many think. I can certainly not personally like something but understand why it is art.

I liked Threes Company when it was on TV, it was the #1 rated show but fully understand it was crap and I know why Citizen Kane is a masterpiece. Now whether you like something personally better is an entirely different conversation.

So, what's the definition of 'art' then?

And, even if it has a definition, what's the point of distinguishing 'art' and non-'art'? Just to sell those works which are designated as 'art' at a much higher price? An ugly photo that's considered a work of 'art' is still an ugly photo.




  
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Renowned Photographer Jeff Mitchum's Masterpiece "Third Day" Sells For $1.8 Million
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