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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 25 Apr 2014 (Friday) 13:34
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Canon 100-400L vs. Tamron 200-500

 
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Limbwalker
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Apr 26, 2014 20:16 |  #31

Yea Watt, assault my "camera knowledge" LOL. It must be that I'm ignorant. That's it.

Why, I would ask, was the 100-400L - when it has IS - giving me a slower shutter speed and shooting wide open when the Tamron was shooting at a higher speed and stopped down a touch?

Rather than suggest I don't know what the hell I'm doing, wouldn't a better explanation be that I borrowed a crap copy of that L lens? Or, perhaps I have a gem of a Tamron?

But no, some would rather get personal than suggest such a thing...


Shoot first and ask questions later.

  
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patrol50
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Apr 26, 2014 20:41 |  #32

shooting in p mode perhaps and using partial metering instead of evaluative can make a difference as can filter etc - i have 2 x 100 - 400 lens and the newer one straight out of the box was and still is sharper than the older one on my 600 d and both very similar on my 7 d - so there is some variation in them and i have seen a very soft one in the past that i lost interest in quickly but it may have worked fine on someone else's camera

but if you dont want to wear the odd serve (and i agree with what others have said) then do a fair comparison and shoot both lens on the same aperture, speed. exposure settings etc and then compare

cheers rob


C:- 7D Mk11 ; 7Dc ; 600D & SX10 IS / L:- EFS 10-22 f3.5-4.5 USM ; 55-250 f4-5.6 IS 11; 18 -200 f3.5-5.6 IS ; & EF 16- 35 f4 L IS USM , 24-105 f4 L IS USM; 70-200 f4 L IS USM; 100-400 f4.5-5.6 L IS 1 USM (V1 and V11); + C 1.4 Ext Mk3 & Tam 150 - 600 f5-6.3 DI VC USD.

  
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DreDaze
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Apr 26, 2014 20:53 |  #33

you can say it's the same lighting all you want, but...

all shots at ISO 400
shot 1:
C-1/60, f5.6
T-1/200, f5.6
tamron +1 2/3 stops

shot 2:
C-1/400, f7.1
T- 1/640, f9
tamron + 1 1/3 stops

shot 3:
C-1/125, f5.6
T-1/400, f7.1
tamron +2 1/3 stops

shot 4:
C-1/400, f7.1
T-1/800, f10
tamron +2 stops

so yeah...totally the same lighting...


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MDJAK
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Apr 26, 2014 21:34 |  #34

I appreciate the effort of the OP. But one thing, among many, the OP needs to realize is real world and controlled are two different things and therein lies the flaws in your test. It's too bad you feel it's only fanboys etc and that's the reason for the attack. I too like Canon but will call a spade a spade. I also know enough to leave the testing to the experts, view their results, and draw some conclusions from them, such as Bryan Carnathian of the digital picture among others.




  
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VirtualRain
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Apr 27, 2014 03:36 |  #35

DreDaze wrote in post #16863780 (external link)
you can say it's the same lighting all you want, but...

all shots at ISO 400
shot 1:
C-1/60, f5.6
T-1/200, f5.6
tamron +1 2/3 stops

shot 2:
C-1/400, f7.1
T- 1/640, f9
tamron + 1 1/3 stops

shot 3:
C-1/125, f5.6
T-1/400, f7.1
tamron +2 1/3 stops

shot 4:
C-1/400, f7.1
T-1/800, f10
tamron +2 stops

so yeah...totally the same lighting...

Yeah, this is a mess. Even if ISO is changing to offer up a similar exposure, you can't compare sharpness of lenses at different apertures like this.

Limbwalker, if you want your lens sharpness comparison to have much credibility, I'd shoot at the same aperture, on a tripod, with live view manual focus. Then the hand-held walk around shots such as you've done will either support the lab test or generate more questions that might help explain some of the difference.

Ps. I couldn't care less which of these lenses is sharper so I'm just following this thread out of interest.


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Neilyb
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Apr 27, 2014 06:13 |  #36

"Real world" is what you will do with this lens once you decide which one you want. "Controlled" are the tests you should do to determine which one is sharper, has more contrast, shows CA or focuses faster. Once that is defined you can take both outside and do real world testing ;)

Now I know the 100-400 inside out, it is a good all-rounder but at 400 starts to fail and has to be shot at f8 to get best results. I am quite sure the Tamron too needs an extra stop to get best results. That is where I would start my testing. Get the ISO same for both, fast enough for a hand-held and then an ISO100 test on a tripod.


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Limbwalker
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Apr 27, 2014 06:40 |  #37

Gentlemen, this was never designed to be a lab test for sharpness. Turn off the OCD filters for a minute and think about his. A fellow photographer offers you a chance to shoot with a lens for a few minutes, and you take them up on it. It's a lens you were considering purchasing prior to buying the one you have. You spend 15 min. (or less) swapping lenses on your body, and take shots of the same things with each lens. Same camera settings. Then you go view the results and this is what you see...

What conclusion would YOU draw?

I call this a very fair test, as I used both lenses EXACTLY the way I would use them in the real world. Hand held, with the camera settings on my custom 1 mode that I shoot for wildlife (same settings that Arthur Morris recommends for the 50D).

The 100-400L has a 2-stop IS. The Tamron does not. I don't have any idea how to account for the difference in aperture or shutter speed, since they were taken from exactly the same position, just minutes apart on a sunny day, mid-day. It's not like the light was changing quickly, or at all even.

I know most here, myself included, have probably spent hours scouring over lab tests for lens sharpness, contrast, distortion, etc. I've probably done that for both these lenses more than once.

But bottom line is, that when I had both in my hands, at least this ONE Tamron beat that ONE Canon lens, hands down.

Left me feeling pretty happy about my purchase, so that's the take-away for me.

Also made me realize that I no longer wonder if I should have bought the 100-400 instead, which is always a good feeling for a guy on a budget.


Shoot first and ask questions later.

  
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Limbwalker
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Apr 27, 2014 06:43 |  #38

And not a single "interesting comparison. Thanks for taking the time to post these..." from anyone.


Shoot first and ask questions later.

  
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watt100
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Apr 27, 2014 06:55 |  #39

Limbwalker wrote in post #16864387 (external link)
Gentlemen, this was never designed to be a lab test for sharpness. Turn off the OCD filters for a minute and think about his. A fellow photographer offers you a chance to shoot with a lens for a few minutes, and you take them up on it. It's a lens you were considering purchasing prior to buying the one you have. You spend 15 min. (or less) swapping lenses on your body, and take shots of the same things with each lens. Same camera settings. Then you go view the results and this is what you see...

What conclusion would YOU draw?

I call this a very fair test, as I used both lenses EXACTLY the way I would use them in the real world. Hand held, with the camera settings on my custom 1 mode that I shoot for wildlife (same settings that Arthur Morris recommends for the 50D).

The 100-400L has a 2-stop IS. The Tamron does not. I don't have any idea how to account for the difference in aperture or shutter speed, since they were taken from exactly the same position, just minutes apart on a sunny day, mid-day. It's not like the light was changing quickly, or at all even.

I know most here, myself included, have probably spent hours scouring over lab tests for lens sharpness, contrast, distortion, etc. I've probably done that for both these lenses more than once.

But bottom line is, that when I had both in my hands, at least this ONE Tamron beat that ONE Canon lens, hands down.
Left me feeling pretty happy about my purchase, so that's the take-away for me.
Also made me realize that I no longer wonder if I should have bought the 100-400 instead, which is always a good feeling for a guy on a budget.

LOL !
but you did not use the same camera settings!

if you do not understand why stopping down an aperture can result in a sharper image or shooting with shutter speeds of 1/60 vs. 1/400 can affect sharpness then you need to go back to photography 101, seriously. it's just basic camera knowledge

Even if you never come back to this forum why not post your "test" on another camera forum and see the responses. My guess is they will say the exact same thing, that your "test" is really flawed even if you believe it's "real world".




  
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Foggiest
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Apr 27, 2014 06:56 |  #40

Look it is simply an invalid test.
There are no fanbois, and there are no results.

Return and re-shoot using a tripod, and the SAME settings when wishing to make a comparison.




  
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jbrackjr
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Apr 27, 2014 07:13 |  #41

Ok, here is the rub. Yes, you probably did use the same camera settings, but you didn't use M mode to ensure the shutter speed and F stop would be identical for both lenses.

Your 60D automatically selected one or the other, or both for you, which caused the difference in settings when comparing the two lenses. Shooting in Manual mode will ensure that all settings are the same, giving a much clear picture as to the ability of each lens.


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Diver-Down
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Apr 27, 2014 07:46 as a reply to  @ jbrackjr's post |  #42

Sorry Limbwalker, but you really do need to go back to the drawing board on this.

Tip #1 : Never use P mode. Learn to use Tv, Av, and M modes and you'll see an overall improvement in your photography.

and definitely use M mode to compare shots with a shutter speed high enough to eliminate camera shake, something like 1/1000 or higher at 400mm is a good start.


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Nigi
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Apr 27, 2014 08:32 |  #43

But you do not know how good would be yours not this one 100-400L if you had bought one instead of tamron.
It could be much better then tamron.




  
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CollegeKid
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Apr 27, 2014 08:56 |  #44
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If you've convinced yourself, switch. I doubt that a poorly controlled and implemented test like this will have any impact on the users of either piece of equipment.

This is purely a guess. I am supposing from the results of the 100-400 that you had a $12 UV filter on it and no hood. Either of those really degrades results from that lens. Both together will totally kill. My 100-400 is excellent at f/5.6. Stopping it down to f/8 improves edge sharpness and reduces vignetting a bit. Oh, and at 400mm, you need the 100-400 at 1/640, or on a tripod. The IS is not really good on that otherwise quite nice lens.




  
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CollegeKid
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Apr 27, 2014 09:18 |  #45
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Limbwalker wrote in post #16864387 (external link)
Gentlemen, this was never designed to be a lab test for sharpness. Turn off the OCD filters for a minute and think about his. A fellow photographer offers you a chance to shoot with a lens for a few minutes, and you take them up on it. It's a lens you were considering purchasing prior to buying the one you have. You spend 15 min. (or less) swapping lenses on your body, and take shots of the same things with each lens. Same camera settings. Then you go view the results and this is what you see...

What conclusion would YOU draw?

And that is most responders' point. You did NOT use the same camera settings. "P" is NOT a setting. It tells the camera to do what ever the firmware programmers told it to do. I (and it seems like most others) would not even attempt to draw a conclusion from such a test.


I call this a very fair test, as I used both lenses EXACTLY the way I would use them in the real world. Hand held, with the camera settings on my custom 1 mode that I shoot for wildlife (same settings that Arthur Morris recommends for the 50D).

Your major mistake here is assuming that anyone and everyone uses their equipment like you do. What you did was test your shooting method(s), not the lenses.


The 100-400L has a 2-stop IS. The Tamron does not. I don't have any idea how to account for the difference in aperture or shutter speed, since they were taken from exactly the same position, just minutes apart on a sunny day, mid-day. It's not like the light was changing quickly, or at all even.

What? DUH?!?! Shut off the IS. Put the camera in manual mode. Seriously, that was way too easy.


I know most here, myself included, have probably spent hours scouring over lab tests for lens sharpness, contrast, distortion, etc. I've probably done that for both these lenses more than once.

But bottom line is, that when I had both in my hands, at least this ONE Tamron beat that ONE Canon lens, hands down.

Sorry, nothing you did, in this thread anyway, compared the lenses on any terms even approaching equitable.

Left me feeling pretty happy about my purchase, so that's the take-away for me.

Also made me realize that I no longer wonder if I should have bought the 100-400 instead, which is always a good feeling for a guy on a budget. And therein lies the bias any valid tester would do anything to avoid.

Internal comments. Please let me know if this is against the rules. I'll take it down.




  
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Canon 100-400L vs. Tamron 200-500
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