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Thread started 22 Mar 2014 (Saturday) 20:45
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Circular Polarizer

 
Bearmann
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Mar 30, 2014 17:29 |  #31

I don't know if it's rarely pointed out or not, but in this thread it was indeed pointed out prior to your original post ;) I don't disagree, however, that in some ways it's nicer to have a correctly sized filter for each lens that you own.


Barry

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RAH1861
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May 30, 2014 07:38 as a reply to  @ Bearmann's post |  #32

Instead of starting a new thread, I figured I'd add to this one with another idea about using step-up rings with polarizers to save money. I have found that you can actually use step-DOWN rings too.

I bought a 72mm Marumi Super DHG circular polarizer a few years ago for use on my Sigma 17-70 lens. Then a few months later I bought a Canon 400 5.6L lens (77mm thread) and kind of wondered if the polarizer would work on it with a step-down ring (seem odd to use a polarizer on a long lens? - think turtles in the sun!). It worked great - there is no way to tell - i.e. no vignetting. I have always figured that this is because it is a telephoto lens with a very restricted field of view.

Well, I am anxiously waiting for the arrival of a new Sigma 17-50 lens (also a 77mm thread), and was lamenting the fact that it seemed I'd have to spend some bucks on a new polarizer. But just for laughs I wondered if the step-down 77-to-72 would work on it. I figured it would work fine as you zoomed in but would probably show dark in the corners at the wider focal lengths. So, just to see, I mounted the stepped-down filter onto a Tokina 12-24 (also 77mm). Well, much to my surprise, the dark corners disappear at 15mm!

So it seems that with the new 17-50 lens, I should be fine, and even if not, it seems that any vignetting will disppear with a very small zoom in. I will report back when I get the lens...

One other thing - using step rings with polarizers is a bit of a pain - since the polarizer itself turns, it can be difficult to tell when you are screwing this stuff in exactly which part is turning, and in use sometimes you think you are turning the polarizer but you're actually turning the step ring. Grrr! But it beats spending major bucks...


Rich
Canon 80D; 60D; SL1; Canon 60mm; Canon 400mm f5.6L; Canon 1.4 II teleconverter; Canon 10-18 STM; Canon 55-250 STM; Tokina 12-24; Sigma 17-50; Sigma 17-70; Sigma 18-250; Bower 35mm; Tamron 70-300; Pro-Optic 8mm fisheye

  
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John ­ from ­ PA
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May 30, 2014 07:54 |  #33

RAH1861 wrote in post #16939941 (external link)
I bought a 72mm Marumi Super DHG circular polarizer a few years ago for use on my Sigma 17-70 lens. Then a few months later I bought a Canon 400 5.6L lens (77mm thread) and kind of wondered if the polarizer would work on it with a step-down ring (seem odd to use a polarizer on a long lens? - think turtles in the sun!). It worked great - there is no way to tell - i.e. no vignetting. I have always figured that this is because it is a telephoto lens with a very restricted field of view.

Well, I am anxiously waiting for the arrival of a new Sigma 17-50 lens (also a 77mm thread), and was lamenting the fact that it seemed I'd have to spend some bucks on a new polarizer. But just for laughs I wondered if the step-down 77-to-72 would work on it. I figured it would work fine as you zoomed in but would probably show dark in the corners at the wider focal lengths. So, just to see, I mounted the stepped-down filter onto a Tokina 12-24 (also 77mm). Well, much to my surprise, the dark corners disappear at 15mm!.

You can't generalize that step down rings won't cause vignetting unless you also consider the cropped sensor camera being used, in your case a 60D and the aperture.




  
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Bearmann
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May 30, 2014 08:00 |  #34

RAH1861 wrote in post #16939941 (external link)
...One other thing - using step rings with polarizers is a bit of a pain - since the polarizer itself turns, it can be difficult to tell when you are screwing this stuff in exactly which part is turning, and in use sometimes you think you are turning the polarizer but you're actually turning the step ring. Grrr! But it beats spending major bucks...

It doesn't matter. You will still change the polarization amount. The SU ring is between the polarizer and the lens, not on the front of the polarizer. Here is a test for you. Hand hold a polarizer while making sure that the 2 rings of the polarizer don't move in relationship to each other. You can even put a small piece of tape on the side of the polarizer to make sure that they don't rotate in relation to each other. Now look through the polarizer while turning it as a whole. You will see the polarization amount change even though the two rings haven't changed in relationship to each other.

The thing to be careful of is when rotating the polarizer, make sure you don't completely unscrew it from the SU ring or completey unscrew the SU ring from the lens thereby letting your polarizer fall on the ground.


Barry

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sawsedge
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May 30, 2014 09:23 |  #35

Bearmann wrote in post #16939970 (external link)
The thing to be careful of is when rotating the polarizer, make sure you don't completely unscrew it from the SU ring or completey unscrew the SU ring from the lens thereby letting your polarizer fall on the ground.

I am in the habit of only rotating in one direction for this reason.


- John

  
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blanex1
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May 30, 2014 11:20 |  #36

vote for both the marumi and B+W cpl filters,as both these will do a grate job.


canon 7d bg-e7 5d-mk3 1d-mk3 24-105-L 17-40 L 35/1.4 85/1.8 yougnuo 565 ex 580 ex and lots of other canon stuff.canon 70-200 2.8 L

  
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RAH1861
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May 30, 2014 14:18 |  #37

John from PA wrote in post #16939960 (external link)
You can't generalize that step down rings won't cause vignetting unless you also consider the cropped sensor camera being used, in your case a 60D and the aperture.

Yes, I agree. I just got the lens and did some testing. On my 60D, with the 17-50mm 2.8 lens at 17mm and 2.8, I can see no vignetting. It seems to me that if it passes this test (wide open, widest focal length), it won't get worse at smaller apertures and higher focal lengths. Right?

I'm not advocating people use step-down rings as a strategy (I mean deliberately doing it), but just when you are in a situation like mine where you already have a filter and get a lens that is say one step larger. A step-down ring might work. (Of course, one advantage to doing this is that you CAN then use your regular lenshood, since the adapter and filter sit slightly inside).

Bearman, I agree that even if you are loosening the adapter ring you are still modifying the polarization amount as you turn. As you say, you just have to make sure you don't remove the whole thing (and have it fall in the mud).

Sawsedge, I really like your idea of only turning it in one direction to avoid loosening it. Of course, with my luck I'll be slightly tightening it at the same time I'm turning the polarizer, and never be able to get it off...


Rich
Canon 80D; 60D; SL1; Canon 60mm; Canon 400mm f5.6L; Canon 1.4 II teleconverter; Canon 10-18 STM; Canon 55-250 STM; Tokina 12-24; Sigma 17-50; Sigma 17-70; Sigma 18-250; Bower 35mm; Tamron 70-300; Pro-Optic 8mm fisheye

  
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Jon
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May 30, 2014 14:49 |  #38

Actually, vignetting from using step-down rings, too-small lens hoods, or other "constrictors" will be more apparent at small apertures because wide open your shallow DoF makes the interference less obvious; stopped down, you're more likely to have the intrusion be visible with the greater DoF.


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RAH1861
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May 30, 2014 15:18 |  #39

Jon wrote in post #16940799 (external link)
Actually, vignetting from using step-down rings, too-small lens hoods, or other "constrictors" will be more apparent at small apertures because wide open your shallow DoF makes the interference less obvious; stopped down, you're more likely to have the intrusion be visible with the greater DoF.

That's an interesting thought, Jon. Looks like I'm going to have to experiment some more before feeling comfortable using the arrangement. We shall see...


Rich
Canon 80D; 60D; SL1; Canon 60mm; Canon 400mm f5.6L; Canon 1.4 II teleconverter; Canon 10-18 STM; Canon 55-250 STM; Tokina 12-24; Sigma 17-50; Sigma 17-70; Sigma 18-250; Bower 35mm; Tamron 70-300; Pro-Optic 8mm fisheye

  
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RAH1861
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Jun 01, 2014 09:24 |  #40

I did some more testing, using a large white foam-core board with label in the middle to focus on. I took shots with and without the stepdown-ring/polarizer combo, at f2.8, 5.6, 8, and 16; at focal lengths 17, 21, 30, and 50.

The results are very similar, but I do in fact think I can detect some minor corner vignetting at f2.8 at focal lengths 17, 21, and even 30. All other f-stops are OK (so it seems that it is not the DOF that is making it appear, but the wide-opn aperture).

This is complicated by the fact that the lens itself exhibits some vignetting at f2.8, so it is kind of hard to tell. This coupled with the polarizer itself giving a different exposure made it hard to compare. (Yes, I know that using Aperture priority should give reciprocal exposures with and without the polarizer, so things should look the same, but things do not always work as they should, I have found; you get subtle differences in exposure). I though about trying it with a clear protective filter so the exposure would remain exactly the same and the results should look identical, but what the hell.

I guess I won't do this. Or maybe I will and crop any vignetting... Decisions, decisions. (A 77 Marumi SHG Super polarizer costs about $115).


Rich
Canon 80D; 60D; SL1; Canon 60mm; Canon 400mm f5.6L; Canon 1.4 II teleconverter; Canon 10-18 STM; Canon 55-250 STM; Tokina 12-24; Sigma 17-50; Sigma 17-70; Sigma 18-250; Bower 35mm; Tamron 70-300; Pro-Optic 8mm fisheye

  
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Russ61
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Jun 01, 2014 17:44 |  #41

If you're an OCCASIONAL user of polarizers, I can appreciate the possibility of saving money (at the expense of convenience) by using a polarizer sized for your largest lens and step-down rings for everything else. Other than that exception, I cannot understand why anyone would consider not having a polarizer for EVERY lens that might need one. The last thing I want to be doing out in the field is rummaging thru my bag trying to figure out on which lens I last had my polarizer on, and then using the seemingly 4 hands needed for exchange of filters from one lens to the other....too much risk of damaging threads, dropping a lens, etc. For what? To save a few (relatively) dollars on a filter for a lens that cost 5-20x as much!

As previously mentioned, using a step ring precludes use of a lens hood (on all but the largest sized lenses). Lens hood are NOT merely safety bumpers (although lots of folks seem to think that's their primary function)...they are meant to block stray light from entering your lens and then literally ricocheting around causing image ghosting/degradation.

I don't have every lens I'd like (who does?) but the ones I do each have their own dedicated filters and hood (with 1 or 2 exceptions for specialty lenses).




  
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Unrising ­ Muffin
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Jun 02, 2014 15:56 |  #42

Not sure if anyone posted this (sorry lazy, not going to read 3 pages):

http://www.lenstip.com …_Results_and_su​mmary.html (external link)

If you scroll down, there's an econo section




  
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Circular Polarizer
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