Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 29 May 2014 (Thursday) 08:56
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Talk me out of buying the 50 Art

 
MalVeauX
"Looks rough and well used"
Avatar
13,510 posts
Gallery: 1855 photos
Best ofs: 4
Likes: 11441
Joined Feb 2013
Location: Florida
     
Jun 02, 2014 10:57 |  #31

daleg wrote in post #16946320 (external link)
Great advice, imho. And very nice bokeh on those baby portraits. First time I've liked the "feel" of the Helios. Hmmmm. I struggle to appreciate that choppy, blocky, heavy swirly look - that I associate with images from these rusky lenses.

I have an unnatural appeal for the swirls of Helios. It only is apparent when there's more lines in the bokeh. If the background is sufficiently crushed, like above, you don't really see it. But if there were light sources, or more lines, it would be obvious.

Swirly swirly:

IMAGE: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5483/14288298535_dacfa4d791_z.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/nLBg​mK  (external link) IMG_4368 (external link) by Mwise1023 (external link), on Flickr

Very best,

My Flickr (external link) :: My Astrobin (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
Nick3434
Goldmember
Avatar
1,568 posts
Gallery: 33 photos
Likes: 211
Joined Dec 2010
Location: Trespassing in South Florida
     
Jun 02, 2014 13:59 |  #32

Yeah, too bad the word is out on any old lenses worth a crap. I think they are almost overvalued at this point.

I have been recently looking to grab a meyer trilopan 100 again......I guess I shoulda did that 4 years ago when I thought that $300 was too much money for an old lens...doh!

What is up with Helios producing new lenses again?


Everything is relative.
Gear: 6D, Unholy Trinity:twisted: (24Lii, sigma 50A, 135L), and for the other ends of the spectrum, sigmaEX 14mm2.8 and sigmaEX 100-300F4.
Fuji X-e2, Rokinon 8 2.8 Fisheye II, Fuji 14 2.8, Fuji 18-55, Fuji 23 1.4
FlikR (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
MalVeauX
"Looks rough and well used"
Avatar
13,510 posts
Gallery: 1855 photos
Best ofs: 4
Likes: 11441
Joined Feb 2013
Location: Florida
     
Jun 02, 2014 14:42 |  #33

Nick3434 wrote in post #16946842 (external link)
What is up with Helios producing new lenses again?

Yea... plastic Helios, kind of junky heh.

All Helios lenses swirl to an extent. The older ones (44-2) swirl a bit more. They have a bunch of 44-4 variations out there that don't cost much and are nice and sharp wide open. There's different variations with #'s of blades (which honestly doesn't matter as you don't buy this lens to stop down, where # of blades starts to make a difference for shape and quality of bokeh). They're not "new" like what you'd think, they just were kit lenses for the Zenit cameras in the USSR. They do make them still, they're plastic though, and still swirl. Tons of them out there, so they're cheap. The 44-4 is probably the better buy if you want a cheap, sharp wide open, very nice little manual lens for dirt. $30~40 for a nice prime that is sharp at F2 and just as sharp as anything else stopped down. The 44-2 is the one you get if you want more swirl, and more of the old Helios character. The later ones, like the 44M-7 are the "better" ones in terms of technically better optics, but cost more.

The value of old lenses used to be much more. When the 40 F2.8 and the 50 F1.8 II are around, it's hard to choose to pay $30~60 for an old lens, or get a modern one for $100~150 with Autofocus. Granted, the modern ones listed there are not F1.4, and/or do not have interesting old bokeh patterns that some really like (I like the swirl flaws, some think it's terrible).

The real loss of value is the Helios 40-1/2 and the Jupiter 9's. Those are sweet lenses, but they went from being cheap to ridiculously expensive over the past few years. You used to get the Helios 40-1 for $150 or so. Now they're $450! Stupid. Since you can get a Samyang 85 F1.4 for $280. And of course, you can get a Sigma 85 F1.4 with Autofocus for double the cost of the Helios, but that's still way too expensive for a lens that old that is manual that doesn't say Carl Zeiss across it (though it shares designs with Carl Zeiss lenses).

A lot of why people use these lenses isn't because they're better than current lenses. It's for the sake of using vintage equipment in a modern way. It's a challenge to use manual gear rather than today's simple autofocus stuff.

I use mine in low light very often, where autofocus hunts even on my good new lenses. But manually, I can bang out photos with an old manual lens (they're easier for me to focus with, their rings are totally different than today's modern lens's manual focus rings which are way less sensitive to me).

Very best,


My Flickr (external link) :: My Astrobin (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
daleg
Senior Member
695 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 139
Joined Aug 2013
Location: Maryland, USA
     
Jun 02, 2014 17:03 |  #34

MalVeauX wrote in post #16946953 (external link)
Yea... plastic Helios, kind of junky heh.

All Helios lenses swirl to an extent. ... (though it shares designs with Carl Zeiss lenses) ...

please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the entire helios line reverse-engineered (blatantly copied) from Zeiss lenses? as russia holds western patent rights in contempt.

funny that I've never had swirly on a Zeiss original.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
MalVeauX
"Looks rough and well used"
Avatar
13,510 posts
Gallery: 1855 photos
Best ofs: 4
Likes: 11441
Joined Feb 2013
Location: Florida
     
Jun 02, 2014 17:07 |  #35

daleg wrote in post #16947271 (external link)
please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the entire helios line reverse-engineered (blatantly copied) from Zeiss lenses? as russia holds western patent rights in contempt.

funny that I've never had swirly on a Zeiss original.

I think you're right. A lot of these lenses were in some way engineered from Zeiss designs. Biotar and all that. That's why it's interesting that they are the way they are, and not like Zeiss lenses completely. I happen to love the swirly weirdness of the Helios lines. I understand many do not, and consider it a busy flaw. I get that. I still really enjoy it though and shoot with it every week.

Here's from just this afternoon as I prepare a hen in my smoker (Helios 44-2):

IMAGE: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5551/14329538801_d2acab7e35_z.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/nQfC​DP  (external link) IMG_4766 (external link) by Mwise1023 (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2907/14146376627_f1919edee8_z.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/ny4S​Vi  (external link) IMG_4760 (external link) by Mwise1023 (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3846/14353090843_604a2df9b5_z.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/nSkk​Rv  (external link) IMG_4753 (external link) by Mwise1023 (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5517/14331163482_54b06b4da5_z.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/nQoX​By  (external link) IMG_4757 (external link) by Mwise1023 (external link), on Flickr

Very best,

My Flickr (external link) :: My Astrobin (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
davidfarina
Goldmember
Avatar
3,357 posts
Gallery: 52 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 1034
Joined May 2013
     
Jun 02, 2014 18:11 |  #36

KeenanRIVALS wrote in post #16945432 (external link)
You guys sure did a great job at talking me out of it, but I did go against purchasing it, I was able to go to the store and walk out without the lens so major props to me. In terms of use, I would obviously find a use, but I ultimately see myself reverting back to the 18-35 1.8 when doing street photographer because of the different focal length options.

Sometimes when you have extra cash its easy to get caught into the hype of gear and own lenses simply for status vs ultimate need. I would love this lens, but I think there may be some more important options out there for me at the time.

Very good! I was never strong enough, sooner or later i got what i wanted.

Now go travelling with the saved cash, will give you much more satisfaction!


Sony A7RII | Sony A7S
EF 40 | EF 70-300L | FD 35 Tilt-Shift
FE 16-35 | FE 28 | FE 90
CV 15 4.5 III | CV 40 1.4 MC | Summilux 50 ASPH
Website (external link) | 500px (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
snake0ape
Goldmember
Avatar
1,223 posts
Gallery: 3 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 11
Joined Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
     
Jun 02, 2014 20:53 |  #37

MalVeauX wrote in post #16946953 (external link)
Yea... plastic Helios, kind of junky heh.

All Helios lenses swirl to an extent. The older ones (44-2) swirl a bit more. They have a bunch of 44-4 variations out there that don't cost much and are nice and sharp wide open. There's different variations with #'s of blades (which honestly doesn't matter as you don't buy this lens to stop down, where # of blades starts to make a difference for shape and quality of bokeh). They're not "new" like what you'd think, they just were kit lenses for the Zenit cameras in the USSR. They do make them still, they're plastic though, and still swirl. Tons of them out there, so they're cheap. The 44-4 is probably the better buy if you want a cheap, sharp wide open, very nice little manual lens for dirt. $30~40 for a nice prime that is sharp at F2 and just as sharp as anything else stopped down. The 44-2 is the one you get if you want more swirl, and more of the old Helios character. The later ones, like the 44M-7 are the "better" ones in terms of technically better optics, but cost more.

The real loss of value is the Helios 40-1/2 and the Jupiter 9's. Those are sweet lenses, but they went from being cheap to ridiculously expensive over the past few years. You used to get the Helios 40-1 for $150 or so. Now they're $450! Stupid. Since you can get a Samyang 85 F1.4 for $280. And of course, you can get a Sigma 85 F1.4 with Autofocus for double the cost of the Helios, but that's still way too expensive for a lens that old that is manual that doesn't say Carl Zeiss across it (though it shares designs with Carl Zeiss lenses).

A lot of why people use these lenses isn't because they're better than current lenses. It's for the sake of using vintage equipment in a modern way. It's a challenge to use manual gear rather than today's simple autofocus stuff.

This is swirly from the Helios 40-1. Notice the bokeh balls are football shaped. The shape gives the swirly look. (and I just added one with a bougainvillea background.)


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.



HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


5Diii | 50D | 8-15L 4| 16-35L 2.8 II| 24-70L 2.8 II | 70-200L 2.8 IS II |Tamy 150-600 | Σ35Art 1.4 | 40 2.8 | Σ50Art 1.4 | 85L 1.2 II | 100 2.8 Macro | Helios 44-3 58mm f2.0 |Helios 40-1 85mm f1.5 | 1.4x & 2x teleconverters

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
MalVeauX
"Looks rough and well used"
Avatar
13,510 posts
Gallery: 1855 photos
Best ofs: 4
Likes: 11441
Joined Feb 2013
Location: Florida
     
Jun 02, 2014 21:16 |  #38

snake0ape wrote in post #16947685 (external link)
This is swirly from the Helios 40-1. Notice the bokeh balls are football shaped. The shape gives the swirly look.

Yeap! I always enjoy seeing your 40-1 shots :) I want one of those, I'm just not willing to drop $450 on a black one, let alone more for a chrome one. Maybe one day.

Very best,


My Flickr (external link) :: My Astrobin (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
snake0ape
Goldmember
Avatar
1,223 posts
Gallery: 3 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 11
Joined Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
     
Jun 02, 2014 21:38 |  #39

MalVeauX wrote in post #16947726 (external link)
Yeap! I always enjoy seeing your 40-1 shots :) I want one of those, I'm just not willing to drop $450 on a black one, let alone more for a chrome one. Maybe one day.

Very best,

Thanks and I enjoy yours too. Yeah they seem to be sought after. I got a good deal given the market demand. I don't think the old ones will go down in price, but the new 2013 ones went down a hundred bucks. But you have to order from the Ukraine . Still the price is ridiculous. What is more ridiculous is this lens weights over a kilo.
Best bargain is the helios 44-3. I got mine on ebay for $30 from some Ukrainian guy. When I post crazy bokeh shots, many always post something to say its horrible. For me, I enjoy the rendering.


5Diii | 50D | 8-15L 4| 16-35L 2.8 II| 24-70L 2.8 II | 70-200L 2.8 IS II |Tamy 150-600 | Σ35Art 1.4 | 40 2.8 | Σ50Art 1.4 | 85L 1.2 II | 100 2.8 Macro | Helios 44-3 58mm f2.0 |Helios 40-1 85mm f1.5 | 1.4x & 2x teleconverters

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
MalVeauX
"Looks rough and well used"
Avatar
13,510 posts
Gallery: 1855 photos
Best ofs: 4
Likes: 11441
Joined Feb 2013
Location: Florida
     
Jun 02, 2014 21:46 |  #40

snake0ape wrote in post #16947758 (external link)
Thanks and I enjoy yours too. Yeah they seem to be sought after. I got a good deal given the market demand. I don't think the old ones will go down in price, but the new 2013 ones went down a hundred bucks. But you have to order from the Ukraine . Still the price is ridiculous. What is more ridiculous is this lens weights over a kilo.
Best bargain is the helios 44-3. I got mine on ebay for $30 from some Ukrainian guy. When I post crazy bokeh shots, many always post something to say its horrible. For me, I enjoy the rendering.

My only complaint of my 44-2 is that the aperture is so easy to turn, it doesn't click or anything, it just glides open/closed, that sometimes I accidentally stop down without knowing it while focusing. I'm thinking of getting a 44-4, just to keep it close, while putting the aperture control at the butt of the lens where I won't constantly turn it.

Very best,


My Flickr (external link) :: My Astrobin (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
KeenanRIVALS
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Avatar
453 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 23
Joined Jun 2013
Location: Michigan
     
Jun 02, 2014 21:59 |  #41

Wow that picture above looks amazing, I like the football bokeh effect, though I can see some people finding it unappealing.


KeenanRIVALS.com (external link) | Daily Street Photography Vlog's (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
snake0ape
Goldmember
Avatar
1,223 posts
Gallery: 3 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 11
Joined Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
     
Jun 02, 2014 22:44 |  #42

KeenanRIVALS wrote in post #16947799 (external link)
Wow that picture above looks amazing, I like the football bokeh effect, though I can see some people finding it unappealing.

This one is from the Sigma 50 Art. I posted this on another 50art blog. Many say this is horrible too. But do notice that the bokah balls are round and mute. Also it is the same tree as the photo above, but at a different POV of course.


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


5Diii | 50D | 8-15L 4| 16-35L 2.8 II| 24-70L 2.8 II | 70-200L 2.8 IS II |Tamy 150-600 | Σ35Art 1.4 | 40 2.8 | Σ50Art 1.4 | 85L 1.2 II | 100 2.8 Macro | Helios 44-3 58mm f2.0 |Helios 40-1 85mm f1.5 | 1.4x & 2x teleconverters

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
dadgummit
Senior Member
Avatar
977 posts
Likes: 3
Joined Nov 2008
     
Jun 02, 2014 22:56 |  #43

My brother got his and it is sooooooooooooooo nice. on FF it is the perfect walk around lens.


My Humble Gear List
I shutter to think how many people are underexposed and lacking depth in this field.Rick Steves

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
InfiniteDivide
"I wish to be spared"
Avatar
2,844 posts
Gallery: 265 photos
Likes: 220
Joined Dec 2013
Location: Kawasaki, Japan
     
Jun 03, 2014 16:20 |  #44

vengence wrote in post #16938003 (external link)
Talk you out of it? Sounds like a challenge :D

You could use that money instead to upgrade from the 60D to a 6D, though the S: 18-35 would have to change.

You could buy a 135 f/2 instead.

You don't really need it or you already would have bought it.

You can't afford it, and you're lying to yourself if you say "it'll be tight, but I think I can do it"

The photographer is much more important than the lens. It won't help you.

Sharpness and such are highly over rated. Go look at your favorite photographs of all time from any photographer, and outside of wildlife photographs, how many made the list because of sharpness and not subject, composition, or lighting?

It's not a video lens.

As soon as you buy it, you'll just want another lens and this one will just sit around unused in a couple
of weeks.

Don't take any of these too seriously, they're meant in good humor.

While all of these are valid points. The most important is finding a FL you like OP.
The lenses FL's will all change when upgrading from the 60D to the 6D or 5D III
If you are not considering FF camera's then disregard. But chose a prime accordingly.

I did not like my 50mm on crop and I personally don't like the 85mm FL on FF.
When I got my 6D I found myself using my 50 1,4 more and more as it was standard and not tight.
I do like my 100L on FF and I would probably also like the 135L if I could justify it.

If you like the 50mm on crop you may rather have the 85L II once you go FF.
Also the thin DOF that FF provides with give you more creative possibilities.
Best of luck to the OP in their decision.


James Patrus
6D | 16-35L F4 | 24L II | 50L | 100L | |  -> Website (external link) & Gallery (external link)
For Sale:Canon 16-35mm f4 IS l Do you enjoy Super Famicom games? (external link) PM me directly.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
InfiniteDivide
"I wish to be spared"
Avatar
2,844 posts
Gallery: 265 photos
Likes: 220
Joined Dec 2013
Location: Kawasaki, Japan
     
Jun 04, 2014 06:19 |  #45

snake0ape wrote in post #16947685 (external link)
This is swirly from the Helios 40-1. Notice the bokeh balls are football shaped. The shape gives the swirly look. (and I just added one with a bougainvillea background.)

I have seen many sample images for the Helios, but these images again remind me
that only this lens can give you that bokeh. The Helios 85mm will be my next purchase. :D


James Patrus
6D | 16-35L F4 | 24L II | 50L | 100L | |  -> Website (external link) & Gallery (external link)
For Sale:Canon 16-35mm f4 IS l Do you enjoy Super Famicom games? (external link) PM me directly.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

7,889 views & 0 likes for this thread
Talk me out of buying the 50 Art
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Binks
1017 guests, 377 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.