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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 03 Jun 2014 (Tuesday) 14:00
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Videographer asking to get my photographs?

 
oriondog1985
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Jun 03, 2014 14:00 |  #1

I'm a wedding photographer (have been for about 3 years) and I did a wedding with a videographer who is now saying he needs a few of my images to make her DVD covers? And he went through the bride, who of course probably does not understand how the whole copyright thing works (even though she signed a detailed contract stating the images are only for personal, non commercial use, etc.). I know a lot of photographers will say it's not worth starting something over this but I can't settle with the fact that someone would use my product to enhance their product which they can also use later to promote themselves to other brides??

I've thought of different scenarios and even if they did credit me on the cover, what if they edit the hell out of the images with some horrible effects-which will just be floating around with my name on it. I have no affiliation to this person and I don't owe them anything and it bothers me that they wouldn't use their own stills. I'm also a video editor and I know it is a very simple thing to do. If the bride had not had a photographer what would his back up be? I have no problem with working with other vendors like florists for example who want a photo for their website with my credit, etc.-but that would never be confused as their product like this would.

I am aware they could just do this behind my back in the end but I feel it's my responsibility to draw a line somewhere as I work very hard to build my reputation as a wedding photographer and screen everyone I choose to work for me as an assistant, etc so that everything I represent is the best it can be. I don't feel comfortable with some stranger taking my images for their company. I just don't know how to go about telling the bride without upsetting her.




  
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gonzogolf
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Jun 03, 2014 14:03 |  #2

So you want to draw a line in the sand at the bride's expense? Saying no to the client for no good reason is bad business sense. It's not like the guy is making prints or selling her DVD out of the trunk of his car at flea markets.




  
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OhLook
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Jun 03, 2014 14:10 |  #3

oriondog1985 wrote in post #16949145 (external link)
I've thought of different scenarios and even if they did credit me on the cover, what if they edit the hell out of the images with some horrible effects-which will just be floating around with my name on it.

A written agreement can include that no changes in the image will be made without your approval.


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oriondog1985
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Jun 03, 2014 14:13 as a reply to  @ gonzogolf's post |  #4

I am not working with that videographer in any way, and how he makes his product has nothing to do with me. He will still have images he takes from me representing his own brand, which I do not feel good about. I was contracted to giver her photographs of her wedding for her own personal use, not for other companies. It's a whole different thing if the bride is printing her own materials. I understand as a wedding photographer it's important to basically bend over backwards for the bride to maintain a good relationship-but I am still a business and don't feel it's right for another vendor to be depending on me to finish their own product with my product which is totally independent from them- and on top of that, for free and no strings attached. I doubt a wedding photography chain business would do that. I feel it's pretty unprofessional




  
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oriondog1985
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Jun 03, 2014 14:15 |  #5

OhLook wrote in post #16949169 (external link)
A written agreement can include that no changes in the image will be made without your approval.

Yes that's true, thanks. If I allow it I would have a lot of conditions. I just would rather not set a precedent that I just do this. Especially if I work with this videographer again.




  
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gonzogolf
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Jun 03, 2014 14:16 |  #6

You are not a chain business you are better than that (hopefully). But you could protect your rights and still help the client get a first class product. Or you could be a righteous prima dona and help the bride out. You arent losing anything by helping and you might forge a relationship that could be beneficial in the future, while not jeopardizing good word of mouth by the bride. Look at the big picture here and dont get caught up in your own ego.




  
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Fernando
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Jun 03, 2014 14:24 |  #7

Personal use? So she can print the photos? At Walmart, Costco, etc?

What's the effective difference between printing the photo on some low grade photo paper and printing it on a dvd/cover?

Go ahead, say no or demand payment for an image she's already paid for and see what kind of a rep you get with her. If you don't care, then do what you want. If every customer, as well as every vendor you come in contact with, is a potential referral, then give up the shot.

I've mentioned before that my mom was in the wedding business, first as a cake decorator and later as a coordinator. She was sweet and kind unless she felt like you were jacking with one of her brides. By the time she retired (35 years in) she could make or break anyone—whether a caterer, florist, or photographer—by referring them, or by not.


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oriondog1985
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Jun 03, 2014 14:44 |  #8

Fernando wrote in post #16949215 (external link)
Personal use? So she can print the photos? At Walmart, Costco, etc?

What's the effective difference between printing the photo on some low grade photo paper and printing it on a dvd/cover?

Go ahead, say no or demand payment for an image she's already paid for and see what kind of a rep you get with her. If you don't care, then do what you want. If every customer, as well as every vendor you come in contact with, is a potential referral, then give up the shot.

I've mentioned before that my mom was in the wedding business, first as a cake decorator and later as a coordinator. She was sweet and kind unless she felt like you were jacking with one of her brides. By the time she retired (35 years in) she could make or break anyone—whether a caterer, florist, or photographer—by referring them, or by not.

Yes they can print anywhere. Obviously I don't exactly love that but it's not 1990 anymore. It is not the fact that I am worried about it being printed on a DVD cover-it is the fact that ANOTHER COMPANY is using my work pretty much as their own. And passing on the message to the bride as if it depends on me. I am very understanding to my brides otherwise and bend but I have my limits. I know some people give more for nothing but it cannot be so black and white. I understand it's all about referrals in this industry but do not agree that you always need to say yes no matter what. Someone will always find something negative to say if they really want to. I'm sure every wedding photographer has dealt with those coordinators with the biggest attitude for no reason. This is not a problem with the bride I have it is with another vendor. I do not owe him anything. If I do decide to allow it I will have conditions and probably have a talk with them about this not being the way I work at the very least.




  
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gonzogolf
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Jun 03, 2014 14:47 |  #9

The videographer is not passing your work off as his, the bride knows exactly where they are coming from. I think you've spent too much time reading forums about copyrights. While it is important to protect your work some of these forums are so self centered regarding copyrights its easy to see how people get freaked out. But if you could step outside yourself and read what you wrote as a bystander you would see what potential is there to come off as a jerk.




  
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sspellman
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Jun 03, 2014 15:57 |  #10

Either you provide some photos with terms that exclude any edits with a photo credit on the DVD cover, or the videographer tells the bride you are being a jerk. What do you prefer?

This the right time to build a bridge not burn it.


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Fernando
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Jun 03, 2014 17:53 |  #11

oriondog1985 wrote in post #16949251 (external link)
Yes they can print anywhere. Obviously I don't exactly love that but it's not 1990 anymore. It is not the fact that I am worried about it being printed on a DVD cover-it is the fact that ANOTHER COMPANY is using my work pretty much as their own. And passing on the message to the bride as if it depends on me. I am very understanding to my brides otherwise and bend but I have my limits. I know some people give more for nothing but it cannot be so black and white. I understand it's all about referrals in this industry but do not agree that you always need to say yes no matter what. Someone will always find something negative to say if they really want to. I'm sure every wedding photographer has dealt with those coordinators with the biggest attitude for no reason. This is not a problem with the bride I have it is with another vendor. I do not owe him anything. If I do decide to allow it I will have conditions and probably have a talk with them about this not being the way I work at the very least.

They're not passing off anything as theirs and by your account the bride knows where the shot came from. If they pass along the info as if it depends on you it's because it does. Again, it's your choice to make and you can make it easy, difficult, or impossible for the bride to get what she would like.

Finally, if people are going to find a way to say something negative, why make it easy for them?


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Car2n
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Jun 03, 2014 18:44 |  #12

The videographer should be able to pull all the stills they need out of the video.


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D ­ Thompson
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Jun 03, 2014 18:56 |  #13

oriondog1985 wrote in post #16949145 (external link)
I just don't know how to go about telling the bride without upsetting her.

I think you've had several suggestions now telling you how to not upset her. It's up to you whether you choose to listen or not. ;)


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memoriesoftomorrow
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Jun 03, 2014 19:54 |  #14

For me the answer is a straight forward "No".

He sells his own products, he uses what he produces / captures for those products. Period. I know of several videographer who will take a DSLR out with them on the take and take one or two shots specifically for the DVD cover THEY are producing. If this guy isn't doing something similar he isn't doing what he needs to to produce the product he has sold the bride. Amateur.

The videographer would also go on my blacklist of companies I recommend avoiding.


Peter

  
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MattPharmD
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Jun 03, 2014 23:13 |  #15

I know of a videographer that does something similar. However, the way he does it is that he contacts the hired photographer before the event. When the photographer is willing then he will use those shots as there are some that are better when you are focusing on that instead of video. He doesn't edit beyond making a collage/composite sort of thing for the cover. If the photographer is unwilling, he takes his own photos and combines them with video stills.

I don't think the idea should be foreign, but it probably could have been handled better. As it sounds like the bride is providing the files, I don't think there is a way to say no without causing problems with your client. This might be a live and learn sort of thing.


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