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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 03 Jun 2014 (Tuesday) 13:07
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Replacing my 55-250mm for outdoor sports without breaking the bank?

 
PNPhotography
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Jun 03, 2014 15:08 |  #16

tapidlittle wrote in post #16949247 (external link)
What about the 70-300 USM ?

First pic was overcast second one was not.

Regarding spot metering I was told by people here to use it to 'lock' the focus on the moving subject. I will try evaluative and compare.

I got some great shots with my old 70-300!!Yeah it does have some limitations but once you get to "know it" you can achieve your objective.Also shoot RAW,IMHO Canon in camera j-pegs are not too good.


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tapidlittle
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Jun 03, 2014 15:30 |  #17

gonzogolf wrote in post #16949264 (external link)
In consistent light you should be using manual so you dont have to worry about metering the shots mid shot. Certainly not using spot metering. I dont know if the metering adds any lag to the t2i by robbing processing power but regardless you dont want spot metering as whatever the spot happens to hit can grossly affect the outcome of the shot.

So evaluative would be the best choice ?


Canon T2i / 17-55mm IS USM 2.8 / 55-250mm IS II / 50mm 1.8 / 580ex II

  
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gonzogolf
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Jun 03, 2014 15:35 |  #18

tapidlittle wrote in post #16949351 (external link)
So evaluative would be the best choice ?

No, manual is your best choice. Simply take a couple of test shots to dial in your exposure, use AV or TV is you need to. Then feed those settings into manual mode. The reason this is best is that there is zero chance of a light, or dark jersey unduly affecting the exposure metering as different players flash into the metered zone. Given that the light in a soccer field is consistent from one side to another, one end to another manual works. Just check periodically to see that you are still on track. Fading light might be an issue, or really heavy clouds passing over.

Evaluative would be better than spot, but still subect to the vagaries of reflected metering.




  
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tapidlittle
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Jun 03, 2014 17:43 |  #19

gonzogolf wrote in post #16949359 (external link)
No, manual is your best choice.

I don't follow you sorry. I always take pictures in M mode but the metering mode was set to spot. I will try evaluative this week to see if it's better.


Canon T2i / 17-55mm IS USM 2.8 / 55-250mm IS II / 50mm 1.8 / 580ex II

  
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gonzogolf
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Jun 03, 2014 17:48 |  #20

tapidlittle wrote in post #16949573 (external link)
I don't follow you sorry. I always take pictures in M mode but the metering mode was set to spot. I will try evaluative this week to see if it's better.

Then the metering mode is just a means to an end. I somehow got the impressive you were shooting AV or TV mode using spot metering which would be disastrous. Regardless of the mode you still need to interpret what it's telling you




  
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BlackParrot
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Jun 03, 2014 18:01 |  #21

I have a T3i and shooting similar subjects. I've had the 55-250 II and the STM, I did like the results the STM offered, the problem for me was the need for shooting quickly. In that situation, I find the sleep mode very overlooked by many. I lost several shots because of it. Beware. Other than that, it's an awesome lens!!

I'm back to shooting the 70-200 f4 non IS. Since I'm shooting horses, I need shutter speeds at 1/1250 and up ... IS is a waste for me in that situation. For most I'm sure it's handy, but just not in my specific place.

If you have the cash, I'd say the 70-200. It's a great lens, AF is always spot on, and My keeper rate goes up about 15% with it. It's worth the extra $200 or so. Just IMHO.
Here's one with the L from the other week. I have some on my Flickr with the 55-250 II from early last season.

IMAGE: https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2902/14129654317_85541a0022_o.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/nwAa​XB  (external link) IMG_6664-1 (external link) by jbellantine photo sets (external link), on Flickr

1D Mk3 | Tamron SP 35/1.8 VC | Tamron SP 85/1.8 VC
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MalVeauX
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Jun 03, 2014 18:22 |  #22

tapidlittle wrote in post #16949046 (external link)
My 55-250mm doesn't achieve what I want for outdoor sports, my pictures are soft. I was thinking of a used 70-200mm F4 NON IS would that be a nice upgrade? Is 2.8 really needed?

Max budget is 750$. Any lens recommendation would be appreciated.
Thanks.

Heya,

I've shot quite a bit with the 55-250 and the 70-200 F4L (non-IS) and owned them together. In reality, I ended up selling the 70-200 and kept the 55-250. Why? They basically did the same thing for me. I was shooting youth soccer in the day light. I didn't need the F4. The 55-250 was about as sharp, when I stopped down a stop. Both were fast. The 70-200 was faster. But I was able to lock and expose with the 55-250 just fine.

I pushed ISO as high as I could tolerate to push my shutter always above 1/1250s basically. And I was shooting F8 almost all the time, for depth of field and sharpness. Sometimes this was ISO 1600. I shot in AV all day, no problems. I've shot in TV too, and just let it choose ISO/aperture. Also did well. But I prefer to control the ISO, and I like AV for the most part for days with clouds where it gets really bright, and overcast in a few minutes (Florida...).

If you were shooting night games, this would be a different thing all together. Then I would certainly try to get the 70-200F4L or even F2.8. Every stop of light will help there.

But sharpness? Speed of AF? A lot of what you're having problems with are based on how you're using your camera and the lens, not the lack of the lens's ability. You can shoot clear, crisp images with it at high speed in sports.

I would try:

Mode: AV
ISO: 800~1600 (meter and see if it puts you faster than 1/1000s, if it does, you're good)
Aperture: Wide open, or stop down 1 stop for depth of field/sharpness
AF: AI Servo
AF: Try both center point and all 9 points. I would start with the 9 point here
Metering: Center Weight or Evalative

I bump focus for this. I first focus to get it about where it needs to be on my target. Then I release focus, and re-engage focus and lock on with AI Servo and track a second, then I begin exposing, always watching my shutter in the lower left to ensure I'm not metering to the point where my shutter drops. I want it fast.

Good luck!

If you want a 70-200 F4L, go for it. You can get them used for $450~500. Great lens. But I think you can do what you're trying to do with the 55-250 no problem. You'll have the same issue with the 70-200 F4L, until you get into the swing of how you nab focus, and getting your settings and metering together, it will work, honest!

Very best,


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tapidlittle
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Jun 03, 2014 19:36 |  #23

BlackParrot wrote in post #16949592 (external link)
I have a T3i and shooting similar subjects. I've had the 55-250 II and the STM, I did like the results the STM offered, the problem for me was the need for shooting quickly. In that situation, I find the sleep mode very overlooked by many. I lost several shots because of it. Beware. Other than that, it's an awesome lens!!

I'm back to shooting the 70-200 f4 non IS. Since I'm shooting horses, I need shutter speeds at 1/1250 and up ... IS is a waste for me in that situation. For most I'm sure it's handy, but just not in my specific place.

If you have the cash, I'd say the 70-200. It's a great lens, AF is always spot on, and My keeper rate goes up about 15% with it. It's worth the extra $200 or so. Just IMHO.
Here's one with the L from the other week. I have some on my Flickr with the 55-250 II from early last season.
QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/nwAa​XB  (external link) IMG_6664-1 (external link) by jbellantine photo sets (external link), on Flickr[/IMG]

Wow nice pic!!! thanks for the advice.


Canon T2i / 17-55mm IS USM 2.8 / 55-250mm IS II / 50mm 1.8 / 580ex II

  
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tapidlittle
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Jun 03, 2014 19:46 |  #24

MalVeauX wrote in post #16949620 (external link)
Heya,

I've shot quite a bit with the 55-250 and the 70-200 F4L (non-IS) and owned them together. In reality, I ended up selling the 70-200 and kept the 55-250. Why? They basically did the same thing for me. I was shooting youth soccer in the day light. I didn't need the F4. The 55-250 was about as sharp, when I stopped down a stop. Both were fast. The 70-200 was faster. But I was able to lock and expose with the 55-250 just fine.

I pushed ISO as high as I could tolerate to push my shutter always above 1/1250s basically. And I was shooting F8 almost all the time, for depth of field and sharpness. Sometimes this was ISO 1600. I shot in AV all day, no problems. I've shot in TV too, and just let it choose ISO/aperture. Also did well. But I prefer to control the ISO, and I like AV for the most part for days with clouds where it gets really bright, and overcast in a few minutes (Florida...).

If you were shooting night games, this would be a different thing all together. Then I would certainly try to get the 70-200F4L or even F2.8. Every stop of light will help there.

But sharpness? Speed of AF? A lot of what you're having problems with are based on how you're using your camera and the lens, not the lack of the lens's ability. You can shoot clear, crisp images with it at high speed in sports.

I would try:

Mode: AV
ISO: 800~1600 (meter and see if it puts you faster than 1/1000s, if it does, you're good)
Aperture: Wide open, or stop down 1 stop for depth of field/sharpness
AF: AI Servo
AF: Try both center point and all 9 points. I would start with the 9 point here
Metering: Center Weight or Evalative

I bump focus for this. I first focus to get it about where it needs to be on my target. Then I release focus, and re-engage focus and lock on with AI Servo and track a second, then I begin exposing, always watching my shutter in the lower left to ensure I'm not metering to the point where my shutter drops. I want it fast.

Good luck!

If you want a 70-200 F4L, go for it. You can get them used for $450~500. Great lens. But I think you can do what you're trying to do with the 55-250 no problem. You'll have the same issue with the 70-200 F4L, until you get into the swing of how you nab focus, and getting your settings and metering together, it will work, honest!

Very best,

Thank you I will try again next week with your suggestions. I'm having a hard time getting what I want with this lens I thought it was a lens limitations (slow focus maybe?).


Canon T2i / 17-55mm IS USM 2.8 / 55-250mm IS II / 50mm 1.8 / 580ex II

  
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MakisM1
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Jun 04, 2014 07:53 |  #25

Are the photos post-processed from RAW? Or SOOC jpegs? If the latter, what Picture Style are you using?

I took the liberty of post-processing your first photo. You might like the 30 sec treatment...


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OS: Linux Ubuntu/PostProcessing: Darktable/Image Processing: GIMP

  
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BobDawg
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Jun 04, 2014 09:09 |  #26

tapidlittle wrote in post #16949165 (external link)
PICTURE #1
PICTURE #2[/IMG]

The second one is not too bad but again there is no sharpness in the faces.

What were your settings on these pictures? Also like asked before, do you shot RAW or JPEG?


Canon 60D, Canon 10-22mm, Sigma 30mm 1.4, Tamron 17-50mm, YN-560 IV Flash (2)

  
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watt100
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Jun 04, 2014 09:20 |  #27

tapidlittle wrote in post #16949046 (external link)
My 55-250mm doesn't achieve what I want for outdoor sports, my pictures are soft. I was thinking of a used 70-200mm F4 NON IS would that be a nice upgrade? Is 2.8 really needed?

Max budget is 750$. Any lens recommendation would be appreciated.
Thanks.

the original 55-250IS is fairly sharp (for a $100 lens). The STM version is an upgrade and the 70-200 is even better if you don't need the focal length. The 100-400 is also better for sports but it's beyond your budget


Canon 55-250IS (original)
Rebel XSi /450D
f6.3
1/1000
iso 400
150mm

IMAGE: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5134/5500958354_2a546f27a7_b.jpg



  
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Jun 04, 2014 09:31 as a reply to  @ BobDawg's post |  #28

Manual for outdoors fast moving sports strikes me as a thoroughly silly choice - depending on where you point the camera, your fraction of sky/subject/foreground changes and thus evaluative metering results will change. This is the point where you say to yourself, okay, I need the camera to do the exposure for me - it's either Av or Tv...

If you're looking to get sharp shots, you need to jack up your ISO to ~400 for starters, then set Tv to 1/640. If your light levels are good according to the meter and the aperture isn't flashing (complaining it can't open any further), set your AF mode to AI servo, otherwise your shutter half press press won't continually adjust focus until you frame and release the shutter.

Av will work too, just close it down a touch from wide open and ensure your ISO setting keeps you floating above 1/500 shutter.

Spot metering may be better in this scenario, but only if your centre point is always on the shirt of the player. Centre weighted average might be more appropriate, but if you can get the balance right using evaluative and some compensation, do that. Your meter will only tell you what you've set it to assess.

Always shoot in RAW, always expose to the right!


Canon 1Ds3 | 16-35/4 | 50/1.8 | 135/2
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BobDawg
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Jun 04, 2014 09:43 |  #29

sdfgjs wrote in post #16950908 (external link)
Are you sure it's the lens and not technique?
IMAGE NOT FOUND
| Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE

That's what I'm trying to figure out. The pictures almost look like their either unedited RAWs or JPEG. And the ISO is cranked on the first one, and the second picture isn't that bad, it's just back lit with harsh light.


Canon 60D, Canon 10-22mm, Sigma 30mm 1.4, Tamron 17-50mm, YN-560 IV Flash (2)

  
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gocolts
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Jun 04, 2014 15:04 |  #30

I think some of your issue is technique...but either way, there are some good upgrades available in your price range.

I would consider either a 70-200 f/4 non-IS, or if you can find a good used one, a 70-200 2.8 non-IS. Just a quick look found one for $875 on FM. Not too much over your budget, especially if you sold the 55-250 you currently have. That would give you some additional options with teleconverters for more FL if you needed it.

http://www.fredmiranda​.com …Canon,70-200,2.8#12377671 (external link)

But....your original idea of a 70-200 f/4 non-IS is good too. Used ones can be had for $450 if you look around.




  
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