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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 07 May 2014 (Wednesday) 09:44
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Remote Power at your finger Tips: Cactus V6 Transceiver review.

 
dmward
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Jun 01, 2014 11:40 |  #46

As as been said in several places, including here. The single weakness for many with the Fuji X system is that there is no really useful ETTL flash system supporting it. Fuji has a speedlite but no ability to create a multi-light scheme. Something that is so easy to do with the Canon 600EX-RT system. If someone would implement Fuji ETTL into their alternative system there seems to be significant pent up demand.

The problem is probably that it requires some reasonably complex protocol conversion techniques.
A) spec the protocol from the camera to a speedlite for each vendor.
B) spec the protocol from the speedlite to the camera for each vendor
C) Build a capabilities profile that covers all the selected vendors.
D) spec and write a command protocol that covers all the capabilities that should be in the "open" system.
E) Spec and write all the conversion APIs between each vendor protocol and the command protocol for both ends of the communication.

Depending on the complexity of the proprietary ETTL communications protocols that could be 1 or 2 engineer years. For Nikon, Canon and Fuji.

Cactus should have some inkling about the resource requirement based on what they've accomplished with the V6. Yongnou should have some idea based on the work they've done with the YN-E3.


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bhursey
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Jun 01, 2014 13:44 |  #47

dmward wrote in post #16944243 (external link)
As as been said in several places, including here. The single weakness for many with the Fuji X system is that there is no really useful ETTL flash system supporting it. Fuji has a speedlite but no ability to create a multi-light scheme. Something that is so easy to do with the Canon 600EX-RT system. If someone would implement Fuji ETTL into their alternative system there seems to be significant pent up demand.

The problem is probably that it requires some reasonably complex protocol conversion techniques.
A) spec the protocol from the camera to a speedlite for each vendor.
B) spec the protocol from the speedlite to the camera for each vendor
C) Build a capabilities profile that covers all the selected vendors.
D) spec and write a command protocol that covers all the capabilities that should be in the "open" system.
E) Spec and write all the conversion APIs between each vendor protocol and the command protocol for both ends of the communication.

Depending on the complexity of the proprietary ETTL communications protocols that could be 1 or 2 engineer years. For Nikon, Canon and Fuji.

Cactus should have some inkling about the resource requirement based on what they've accomplished with the V6. Yongnou should have some idea based on the work they've done with the YN-E3.


It's a very large R&D cost that would raise prices. As you said about 2 years. That's about the normal cycle with their triggers so we will see. We will keep throwing ideas around so the input is appreciated.


Cameras: Canon 60D and 20D
Canon EF lens used : 50mm f1.8, 18-55mm f/3.5-5.5, 75-300mm f/4.5-5, 85mm f/1.8, 28-75mm F/2.8 XR Di LD Aspherical (IF)Strobist: Canon 580EX II , 2X YN-568EX, Nikon SB-24, LP-160, Pixel Mago, 4x Cactus RF60 , Voeloon V760 and 331EX, 4x YN622C and (cactus v4, v5, V6)"
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dmward
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Jun 02, 2014 09:57 |  #48

bhursey wrote:
=bhursey;16944519 As you said about 2 years.

In development speak 2 engineer years means that 1 engineer would take 2 years, 2 engineers, 1 years. 4 engineers 6 months. Probably more engineers than four on a project like this would get in one anthers way, and make it less efficient.

I've seen some remarkable things accomplished by a talented team of engineers in relatively sort time. Its always a question of resources, their scarcity and how to maximize their potential. If its well run, there is a rigorous product planning process required to get the resources assigned.

In this case, based on my experience justifying engineering programs for product development, based on the scattered empirical evidence I think the case could be make by a product manager. :-)

One Man's View


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bhursey
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Jun 02, 2014 11:02 as a reply to  @ dmward's post |  #49

The enginering team is atleast 4. There is a r&d department and support and so on. Quite a few people. Verry smart guys. Im sure I probibly will be involed in one way or another. So we will see. It may be done via fw. The hardware platform allready is developed. Although a af focus light would have to be added if that feature is posible.


Cameras: Canon 60D and 20D
Canon EF lens used : 50mm f1.8, 18-55mm f/3.5-5.5, 75-300mm f/4.5-5, 85mm f/1.8, 28-75mm F/2.8 XR Di LD Aspherical (IF)Strobist: Canon 580EX II , 2X YN-568EX, Nikon SB-24, LP-160, Pixel Mago, 4x Cactus RF60 , Voeloon V760 and 331EX, 4x YN622C and (cactus v4, v5, V6)"
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elv
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Jun 02, 2014 13:34 as a reply to  @ bhursey's post |  #50

PocketWizard are fairly switched on, and they still haven't cracked the Canon 1DX and other cameras. And that's just for Canon. So its clearly not a small task to keep up with.

Its one thing just to get there, its another to say we're going to stay current and continually support new gear.
.


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dmward
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Jun 02, 2014 22:13 |  #51

elv wrote in post #16946778 (external link)
PocketWizard are fairly switched on, and they still haven't cracked the Canon 1DX and other cameras. And that's just for Canon. So its clearly not a small task to keep up with.

Its one thing just to get there, its another to say we're going to stay current and continually support new gear.
.

Very true. That's the biggest problem with proprietary protocols; the company owning the protocol can change it at its whim.

Happened with IBM SDLC often to frustrate plug compatible suppliers. Similar situation here.


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bhursey
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Jun 03, 2014 07:12 |  #52

elv wrote in post #16946778 (external link)
PocketWizard are fairly switched on, and they still haven't cracked the Canon 1DX and other cameras. And that's just for Canon. So its clearly not a small task to keep up with.

Its one thing just to get there, its another to say we're going to stay current and continually support new gear.
.

It seemed like with talking with them a monumental task to make it universal.


Cameras: Canon 60D and 20D
Canon EF lens used : 50mm f1.8, 18-55mm f/3.5-5.5, 75-300mm f/4.5-5, 85mm f/1.8, 28-75mm F/2.8 XR Di LD Aspherical (IF)Strobist: Canon 580EX II , 2X YN-568EX, Nikon SB-24, LP-160, Pixel Mago, 4x Cactus RF60 , Voeloon V760 and 331EX, 4x YN622C and (cactus v4, v5, V6)"
http://flickr.com/phot​os/bhursey (external link) | http://brianhurseyphot​ography.com (external link)

  
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swldstn
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Jun 03, 2014 18:51 |  #53

Well for Fuji, I, now have at least three solutions for remote power control but not TTL

1: YN-E3-RT with Canon 600EX-RT and maybe YN-600EX-RT when its available
2: Cactus V6 with my Canon 600EX-RT or 430EX-II or many other TTL compatible flashes
3: Godox flashes with FT-16 or FT-16s ( I have one CL-180 at the moment)

Phottix claims the Odin/Mistro won't work on the Fuji and offer remote power.


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ClassA42
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Jun 03, 2014 19:53 |  #54

swldstn wrote in post #16949674 (external link)
3: Godox flashes with FT-16 or FT-16s ( I have one CL-180 at the moment)

The Godox Li-Ion powered flashes are nice -- except that the V850/V860C charger/batteries are missing a balancing circuit which may lead to suboptimal battery usage and, as I understand, even premature battery death -- but I would not spend any money on the inadequate FT-16(s) triggers (external link).

BTW, I guess the upcoming YN560-TX should also work with Fuji, not with your flashes, though.




  
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alessandro2009
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Jun 04, 2014 01:14 |  #55

Do someone think, since the firmware is upgradable, that the YN 560 III will be supported from this unit?
I speak about the remote control as happen for the manual flash Cactus RF 60 and don't simply act as normal trigger.




  
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Jun 04, 2014 04:18 |  #56

alessandro2009 wrote in post #16950293 (external link)
Do someone think, since the firmware is upgradable, that the YN 560 III will be supported from this unit?

I don't see how this is going to work since the YN560-III only has a single pin hot-shoe that cannot be used to control its power.

The YN560-III would have to have Canon, Nikon, or Pentax dedication in order to be supported.

The only other chance would be radio communication between the V6 and the YN560-III. However, the radio technology is probably incompatible with each other and even if it were not, I cannot really see why Cactus would put effort into developing a YN560-III compatibility mode.




  
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alessandro2009
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Jun 04, 2014 07:13 |  #57

The YN560 III is a manual flash with integrated radio trigger and the incoming Yongnuo – YN560-TX – Finally Revealed! (external link) should be universal.

Since they support expensive TTL flash, I think should be feasible also in relation to this different unit that probably will have a certain market share that would be a shame to ignore.
Or is it more difficult then support the remote control on TTL flash?




  
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Jun 04, 2014 12:14 |  #58

alessandro2009 wrote in post #16950639 (external link)
The YN560 III is a manual flash with integrated radio trigger and the incoming Yongnuo – YN560-TX – Finally Revealed! (external link) should be universal.

According to the -- admittedly not entirely reliable -- published information, the TN560-TX will only support one flash model, the YN560-III. That's it.

It will trigger a couple of compatible YN triggers (602/603) but there is not support for remote power control for anything but the YN560-III.

It also remains to be seen when the trigger will be available since it was once announced to be available by the end of 2013.

alessandro2009 wrote in post #16950639 (external link)
Since they support expensive TTL flash, I think should be feasible also in relation to this different unit that probably will have a certain market share that would be a shame to ignore.

Yongnuo has not been strong with their product integration in the past.

They have three different radio systems, all incompatible with each other.




  
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alessandro2009
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Jun 04, 2014 16:10 |  #59

The main point on that discussion isn't the compatibility between the YN radio systems or when will be present that particular unit but if the Cactus V6 will take into account the support of these units or not.
So i wonder if this support is something complicated or less respect at the support that the Cactus V6 give at TTL flash.
If the support at the YN 560 III is an easy task I hope that they implement it.




  
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Jun 04, 2014 18:43 |  #60

alessandro2009 wrote in post #16951843 (external link)
So i wonder if this support is something complicated or less respect at the support that the Cactus V6 give at TTL flash.

You should direct such questions to Cactus.

Betatesters either don't know such details and if they did, they are typically supposed to remain silent about them.




  
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Remote Power at your finger Tips: Cactus V6 Transceiver review.
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