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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 24 May 2014 (Saturday) 15:24
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Pros/Cons Canon 6D vs 5DMKIII

 
Mornnb
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Jun 07, 2014 21:00 |  #46

davesrose wrote in post #16958231 (external link)
I consider my lighting conditions and try to compensate enough to not rely on extreme ISOs or post processing (I can't say I've ever tried pushing ISO to 12800 on a shoot).

Yeah this does not work in practise, sometimes you have to shot in very low light conditions were you have no control over the lighting.


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Jun 07, 2014 21:01 |  #47

davesrose wrote in post #16958231 (external link)
Looking at all the posted samples on this thread, the "discussion" between you and Mornnb seems to be which noisy picture looks best. Not actual IQ comparisons of the 6D vs 5DmkIII. I consider my lighting conditions and try to compensate enough to not rely on extreme ISOs or post processing (I can't say I've ever tried pushing ISO to 12800 on a shoot)

The lowest light I've shot so far is auditoriums and single low light indoors. I have found I get enough speed and DOF using a fast lens, and vary rarely need to go past 1600 (I think the furthest I've comfortably gone to on a shoot is 3200).

None of that works for all sporting events unfortunately. ISO 3200 won't even cut it. It's great you don't need high ISO, but many of us others do, and we will always continue talking about high ISO results, how to work on them, and which bodies do best. ;)


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Jun 07, 2014 21:18 |  #48

Submariner wrote in post #16958147 (external link)
I think I better give up this photography lark!
I wouldn't dream of shooting at ISO 12,800 let alone above. The image quality just is horrible in my opinion on any camera.
6,400 is just about useable and for me its time to get the old flash out. Appreciate some of you have more demanding shot you need to take, but I am just not into that kind of resolution.

All ai can say is its really nice have all those AF points on the 5D3, and to me I really appreciate being to trust them.
Focusing and recomposing can have its downside at say F2.8.

Please dont get me wrong I think the 6D is terrific value for money, but its not in the same league in real world usage for my kind of stuff.
Not being a 5D3 fanboy either.
I am disappointed it doesnt have spot metering on any selected AF point. Yes I can work around it with the AE lock star button but its a pain. And I think it should have the dual pixel thing for automatic autofocusing in Video ... For the retail price.

Look at Mornnb's examples, I have numerous examples just like it. I truly feel sorry for people who think it's better to just put the camera away rather than work around difficult lighting with the tools at their disposal which for me in many cases is high ISO.

As for the 6D, adding those features would've hiked the cost. I too would love to have spot metering for each point, but in reality it's really easy to walk around it by using AE-lock as you mentioned. As for the dual pixel AF... that wasn't introduced until the 70D, over a year after the release of the 6D, it couldn't come with technology that didn't yet exist.

davesrose wrote in post #16958231 (external link)
Looking at all the posted samples on this thread, the "discussion" between you and Mornnb seems to be which noisy picture looks best. Not actual IQ/feature comparisons of the 6D vs 5DmkIII. I consider my lighting conditions and try to compensate enough to not rely on extreme ISOs or post processing (I can't say I've ever tried pushing ISO to 12800 on a shoot).

The lowest light I've shot so far is auditoriums and single low light indoors. I have found I get enough speed and DOF using a fast lens, and vary rarely need to go past 1600 (I think the furthest I've comfortably gone to on a shoot is 3200).

Then you're not shooting in "difficult" lighting. Just because you haven't encountered the need for it doesn't mean we haven't, I use my camera above those ISO's all the time even with f/1.4 lenses and at 1/60s, here's a few examples.

f/2, 1/60s ISO16,000

IMAGE: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5318/14139333429_39988994e1_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/nxrM​dR  (external link) IMG_8858.jpg (external link) by EverydayGetaway (external link), on Flickr

f/2.8, 1/50s ISO25,600

IMAGE: https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3682/9271522257_01f355a1bc_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/f8hY​y2  (external link) Independence Day 2013-24 (external link) by EverydayGetaway (external link), on Flickr

f/2, 1/60s ISO12,800

IMAGE: https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8126/8747191242_8d44e9eb80_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/ejXD​d7  (external link) Pam, Silks-33 (external link) by EverydayGetaway (external link), on Flickr

None of these examples have much NR btw.

Better yet, go look at member NCHANT's starscapes and tell me how "horrible" high ISO shots are.

Next time you want to make elitist remarks please consider that not everyone's needs reflect your own and that you're not the end-all-be-all of photographers. There's a reason high ISO performance is so often discussed, it's needed by lots of shooters.

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davesrose
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Jun 07, 2014 21:20 |  #49

Mornnb wrote in post #16958227 (external link)
In my experience the difference between the bodies depending on situation is about a 1/3 to 1/2 of a stop. This is enough to be noticeable with a picky eye in some situations.

Some situations is a key word! Your resized images of the music gig look fine at that size, but even at that resolution, you can see grain and low dynamic range. OK for photo journalism type style, but high quality print?

Mornnb wrote in post #16958227 (external link)
None of that works for all sporting events unfortunately. ISO 3200 won't even cut it. It's great you don't need high ISO, but many of us others do, and we will always continue talking about high ISO results, how to work on them, and which bodies do best. ;)

It works for many sporting events. You're free to feel that the 6D is superior to any other camera for high ISO...be prepared for others to dispute that claim. I still don't take much stock in pixel peeping and comparing those high ISO samples, and won't presume to say the 6D blows any other camera's ISO out of the water.

Now to get back on topic...is the OP or jay125 still around: you know, those people who were actually wondering what the differences between the two cameras are? ;)


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Jun 07, 2014 21:28 |  #50

Discussing ISO differences between the two is on topic. You telling us that high ISO is of little importance or is mostly useless, and that we should move to other platforms isn't. ;)

Feel free to discuss other differences between those 2 cameras that you have experience with, and others of us will talk about ISO and AF differences between them. I have used them both, and appreciate each for what they bring to the table.


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Jun 07, 2014 21:53 |  #51

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #16958259 (external link)
Next time you want to make elitist remarks please consider that not everyone's needs reflect your own and that you're not the end-all-be-all of photographers. There's a reason high ISO performance is so often discussed, it's needed by lots of shooters.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #16958276 (external link)
Discussing ISO differences between the two is on topic. You telling us that high ISO is of little importance or is mostly useless, and that we should move to other platforms isn't. :wink:

I'm sorry if my remarks came off as elitist...that wasn't my intention. My first response to Mornnb's initial posts of 100% noisy crops was meant to be more in jest (that high ISO is not the ONLY spec in a camera). Apart from Mornnb's assertion, most photographers have said the extra MPs and ISO characteristics of the D800 makes it the best for usable ISO 25600. I didn't mean to start a debate of the validity of high ISO! Yes, it can be needed by some photographers, just as there are a list of other features that makes a suitable camera. Sorry again to anyone I may have offended: the main point I wanted to make was that 100% crops aren't an end all measure of each camera's high ISO (especially when you factor NR and MPs).


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Jun 07, 2014 22:07 |  #52

davesrose wrote in post #16958303 (external link)
I'm sorry if my remarks came off as elitist...that wasn't my intention. My first response to Mornnb's initial posts of 100% noisy crops was meant to be more in jest (that high ISO is not the ONLY spec in a camera). Apart from Mornnb's assertion, most photographers have said the extra MPs and ISO characteristics of the D800 makes it the best for usable ISO 25600. I didn't mean to start a debate of the validity of high ISO! Yes, it can be needed by some photographers, just as there are a list of other features that makes a suitable camera. Sorry again to anyone I may have offended: the main point I wanted to make was that 100% crops aren't an end all measure of each camera's high ISO (especially when you factor NR and MPs).

Fair enough. I've shot with my friend's D800 side by side with my 6D though and even he agreed that the files from the 6D looked better, the colors were more true and the noise was less obtrusive, less color noise. After post production though, the difference is pretty much non-existent. I will say that I've also shot side by side with my other friend's 5D3 and to my eyes there's no difference for what I was shooting anyway (haven't needed to go above ISO3200 in the situations where I used his camera).

So I'll say it again, if you need the more advanced AF system, get the 5D. If you like to shoot with MF glass and/or like the idea of having built in WiFi and GPS and a slightly (though noticeably) smaller and lighter body, get the 6D.

IMO the other differences aren't even worth bringing up (joystick, LCD size, 1/8000s shutter, etc... all of those are negligible differences, again IMO).


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davesrose
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Jun 07, 2014 22:31 |  #53

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #16958315 (external link)
Fair enough. I've shot with my friend's D800 side by side with my 6D though and even he agreed that the files from the 6D looked better, the colors were more true and the noise was less obtrusive, less color noise. After post production though, the difference is pretty much non-existent.

Yeah, I find there are color differences and metering with Canon vs Nikon: unprocessed, I find the Nikon to have more of a green/yellow cast: prefer the Canons unprocessed color. For high ISO attributes, from picture to picture examples, it seems all FF Canons and Nikons compare favorably.

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #16958315 (external link)
... If you like to shoot with MF glass and/or like the idea of having built in WiFi and GPS and a slightly (though noticeably) smaller and lighter body, get the 6D.

IMO the other differences aren't even worth bringing up (joystick, LCD size, 1/8000s shutter, etc... all of those are negligible differences, again IMO).

Curious, what makes the 6D better for MF glass? Comparisons I've seen do point to the 6D having better center point AF in low light compared to 5DmkIII (I always have an AF assist speelite on in low light).The 6D is the clear choice for Wifi/GPS (you have to buy eye-fi cards or really expensive Canon add ons for the 5DmkIII). The difference in shutter speed is actually a feature I consider (find I do go past 4000 for certain situations...guess you can compensate with more ND filters though).

The other differences are interface and that is up to preference...agreed.


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Jun 07, 2014 22:35 |  #54

davesrose wrote in post #16958360 (external link)
Yeah, I find there are color differences and metering with Canon vs Nikon: unprocessed, I find the Nikon to have more of a green/yellow cast: prefer the Canons unprocessed color. For high ISO attributes, from picture to picture examples, it seems all FF Canons and Nikons compare favorably.

Curious, what makes the 6D better for MF glass? The 6D is the clear choice for Wifi/GPS (you have to buy eye-fi cards or really expensive Canon add ons for the 5DmkIII). The difference in shutter speed is actually a feature I consider (find I do go past 4000 for certain situations...guess you can compensate with more ND filters though).

The other differences are interface and that is up to preference...agreed.

With the 6D you can buy the $35 EG-S screen and install it yourself in 30 seconds and there's a setting in the camera so the meter knows you changed the screen. Some people claim they don't see the difference, but I did immediately. I now shoot exclusively with MF glass on my 6D and tried using my Rokinon 85mm on my buddies 5D and gave up after about 2 minutes, it definitely matters to me ;)


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davesrose
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Jun 07, 2014 22:55 |  #55

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #16958368 (external link)
With the 6D you can buy the $35 EG-S screen and install it yourself in 30 seconds and there's a setting in the camera so the meter knows you changed the screen. Some people claim they don't see the difference, but I did immediately.

I've been wanting to get into some more videography (and dust off some old manual lenses). I did do quite a bit of manual focus with my 5DC...wound up getting a 3rd party split prism: those are even better IMO :) The 5DC also had some extra screens selected in the menu: some lined up OK with the 3rd party offerings. But if not, the exposure isn't too far off.

For now, I do a lot of AF on the 5DmkIII. Haven't tried to see how well its focus assist works with MF...you've got me curious now;)


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Jun 07, 2014 23:01 |  #56

davesrose wrote in post #16958393 (external link)
I've been wanting to get into some more videography (and dust off some old manual lenses). I did do quite a bit of manual focus with my 5DC...wound up getting a 3rd party split prism: those are even better IMO :) The 5DC also had some extra screens selected in the menu: some lined up OK with the 3rd party offerings. But if not, the exposure isn't too far off.

For now, I do a lot of AF on the 5DmkIII. Haven't tried to see how well its focus assist works with MF...you've got me curious now;)

LV focusing is fine on it, but through the VF I couldn't get used to it. I've thought about getting a split prism screen for my 6D, but I rarely miss focus with the EG-S screen anyway so I'll just stick with it for now. I got lasik done a couple of months ago and that's made a bigger difference than any focus screen could :cool:


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davesrose
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Jun 07, 2014 23:15 |  #57

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #16958407 (external link)
LV focusing is fine on it, but through the VF I couldn't get used to it. I've thought about getting a split prism screen for my 6D, but I rarely miss focus with the EG-S screen anyway so I'll just stick with it for now. I got lasik done a couple of months ago and that's made a bigger difference than any focus screen could :cool:

That would help with focus:) If I get non-EF lenses, I'm going to be using them for LV movie recording. Many new AF lenses have pretty bad/non-fluid focus rings. If only Canon had come out with their dual pixel AF with the 5DmkII: it wouldn't have forced an increase in price of used MF lenses! :D Since LV would be the main time I'd use non-EF lenses, I'm probably not going to explore split screens for the 5DmkIII. But for your uses, you may enjoy a split screen...and say it's worth getting one to try.


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Jun 08, 2014 02:16 |  #58

davesrose wrote in post #16958413 (external link)
That would help with focus:) If I get non-EF lenses, I'm going to be using them for LV movie recording. Many new AF lenses have pretty bad/non-fluid focus rings. If only Canon had come out with their dual pixel AF with the 5DmkII: it wouldn't have forced an increase in price of used MF lenses! :D Since LV would be the main time I'd use non-EF lenses, I'm probably not going to explore split screens for the 5DmkIII. But for your uses, you may enjoy a split screen...and say it's worth getting one to try.

I'm not sure why Canon doesn't make one for any of their cameras, I don't feel right coughing up $100+ for an aftermarket focus screen when the one's from Canon are only $35 and designed to play well with the meter/VF.

As for your movie lenses, look no further than the Samyang primes, their excellent and even have de-clicked aperture cinema versions ;)


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Jun 08, 2014 03:06 |  #59

davesrose wrote in post #16958413 (external link)
That would help with focus:) If I get non-EF lenses, I'm going to be using them for LV movie recording. Many new AF lenses have pretty bad/non-fluid focus rings. If only Canon had come out with their dual pixel AF with the 5DmkII: it wouldn't have forced an increase in price of used MF lenses! :D Since LV would be the main time I'd use non-EF lenses, I'm probably not going to explore split screens for the 5DmkIII. But for your uses, you may enjoy a split screen...and say it's worth getting one to try.

What's wrong with AF confirm? Wait till the green dot lights up.


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Mornnb
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Jun 08, 2014 03:17 |  #60

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #16958315 (external link)
Fair enough. I've shot with my friend's D800 side by side with my 6D though and even he agreed that the files from the 6D looked better, the colors were more true and the noise was less obtrusive, less color noise. After post production though, the difference is pretty much non-existent. I will say that I've also shot side by side with my other friend's 5D3 and to my eyes there's no difference for what I was shooting anyway (haven't needed to go above ISO3200 in the situations where I used his camera).

There you go the difference gets more obvious at 12800 and 25600.

So I'll say it again, if you need the more advanced AF system, get the 5D. If you like to shoot with MF glass and/or like the idea of having built in WiFi and GPS and a slightly (though noticeably) smaller and lighter body, get the 6D.

The lightness of the 6D is more than slight. Put it this way, a 6D with a 24-70mm II 2.8 is lighter than a 5D3 with a 24-105mm.

IMO the other differences aren't even worth bringing up (joystick, LCD size, 1/8000s shutter, etc... all of those are negligible differences, again IMO).

I agree than 1/8000 and the joystick aren't particularly important. Who needs a joystick when you only have a handful of AF points.
But the LCD of the 5D3 is quite a big advantage, it has more accurate colours and better contrast which is more important than the size. It gives you a better idea of the final product.
The 5D3 has a couple of other minor but useful advantages over the 6D:
In view finder level meter, which also shows both the horizon and vertical, the 6D's only shows the horizon. This is quite a big deal for landscape and architecture shooting with tilt shifts.
DOF preview button in a sensible location.
Dual memory cards.
Rating button, start picking keepers before you get home.


Canon 5D Mark III - Leica M240
EF 16-35mm F/4 IS L - EF 14mm f/2.8 L II - - EF 17mm TS-E L - EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L II - EF 70-200mm IS II f/2.8 L - Sigma 35mm f/1.4 Art - Sigma 85mm f/1.4 EX
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Pros/Cons Canon 6D vs 5DMKIII
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Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.