Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 23 May 2014 (Friday) 13:23
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Brutal Critiques vs Silence

 
gonzogolf
dumb remark memorialized
29,426 posts
Gallery: 52 photos
Likes: 2601
Joined Dec 2006
     
Jun 11, 2014 09:18 |  #61

Clean Gene wrote in post #16964590 (external link)
Do they KNOW that they aren't looking for an honest critique? Maybe, but sometimes I think you'd be surprised. I've known some actual GOOD photographers who produce a LOT of awesome work to the extent that they put me to shame. Yet despite being serious enough to get that good, they make mistakes like getting defensive about their work before anyone gets to see it, and making excuses whenever someone points out potential flaws.

My point being...learning how to talk about work is an acquired skill just as much as making work is. Knowing what you want from your work and what you want from your audience is an acquired skill. Most people don't know this stuff. Making good images is the easy part, and a lot of people get there without learning the other stuff. That doesn't NECESSARILY mean that they don't want to get better, that might just mean that they still really don't know what the hell they actually want.

And you can call people out on this during critiques. Again, not saying that you SHOULD. It's your time and you can do what you want to with it. I'm just saying that I strongly disagree with the assumption that someone's work isn't worth a critique if they get defensive in a title or suck at talking about photographs. Those things are also worthy of critique. Titling works, attitude towards works, and ability to discuss works are also important for people who make photographs, and it's valid to critique that stuff as well. I don't like to categorically dismiss people just because they suck at one area. I might categorically dismiss someone because I'm too LAZY to open the thread or comment on how their title isn't doing the image justice, but that's a different thing. That's me not feeling like telling someone that they screwed up. That's on me, it's not their fault for screwing up. If it was a certainty that they wouldn't screw up, then that would diminish much of the point of doing a critique in the first place.

I pretty much know when someone uses a title like, random shots of my friends done in a hurry in iffy light, CC please they are hoping for praise and not looking for critique. Because as soon as you point out a problem, they respond with "well I said it was done quickly in bad conditions." If it wasnt a serious effort why post in the first place, especially asking for critique? I suppose you will respond that I cant know, but I've enough experience with these posts to know the usual response.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
DocFrankenstein
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
12,324 posts
Likes: 7
Joined Apr 2004
Location: where the buffalo roam
     
Jun 11, 2014 16:50 |  #62

gonzogolf wrote in post #16965082 (external link)
I pretty much know when someone uses a title like, random shots of my friends done in a hurry in iffy light, CC please they are hoping for praise and not looking for critique. Because as soon as you point out a problem, they respond with "well I said it was done quickly in bad conditions." If it wasnt a serious effort why post in the first place, especially asking for critique? I suppose you will respond that I cant know, but I've enough experience with these posts to know the usual response.

Yeah... I get those too.

Or you find out what they're going for and try to explain why something different would work better (using textbook techniques) and get something along the lines of "bug off, art is subjective"


National Sarcasm Society. Like we need your support.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
RMH
Goldmember
Avatar
1,000 posts
Likes: 35
Joined Jan 2011
Location: Canterbury
     
Jun 11, 2014 17:35 |  #63

Critiquing the bad photos is easy. Complementing the great ones is easy.

Critiquing the 'ok' ones is harder. I think silence often means that there's no glaring flaws, it's just not very interesting, and about the only thing you can say is "it's boring". That's probably why I never ask for critique :p I guess I should really; I'm probably at the stage where I need some professional advice to get better



All the stuff I've owned at one time or another

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Clean ­ Gene
Goldmember
1,014 posts
Joined Nov 2010
     
Jun 12, 2014 01:11 |  #64

gonzogolf wrote in post #16965082 (external link)
I pretty much know when someone uses a title like, random shots of my friends done in a hurry in iffy light, CC please they are hoping for praise and not looking for critique. Because as soon as you point out a problem, they respond with "well I said it was done quickly in bad conditions." If it wasnt a serious effort why post in the first place, especially asking for critique? I suppose you will respond that I cant know, but I've enough experience with these posts to know the usual response.

Just curious...how often do you actually tell THEM that?

I'm just saying, that's exactly the kind of thing that I actually do mention when I do critiques. Sure...sometimes I'm wrong, but assuming that I'm right I think it's something that deserves to be said. It's essentially noticing when people are peddling BS and then calling them out on it. And I think that serves a useful lesson just as any other. If they don't learn that people can see that they're full of $***, how are they ever gonna know to stop doing that?

I'm not saying that you SHOULD call them out for that stuff, but that's worthy of commenting on. If more people were actually willing to speak up instead of saying, "they're just full of $***, no reason to talk to them", then maybe some of the people who do that stuff would actually realize how transparent their attempts are and how no one is freaking buying into it. I know it's not your job to help people improve, but I tend to think that some people might improve if people were more willing to actually call them out on their BS. Don't tell ME that some other guy was clearly not making a serious effort. I'm not the one who needs to hear that, he/she is the one who needs to hear that.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gonzogolf
dumb remark memorialized
29,426 posts
Gallery: 52 photos
Likes: 2601
Joined Dec 2006
     
Jun 12, 2014 09:29 |  #65

Clean Gene wrote in post #16966807 (external link)
Just curious...how often do you actually tell THEM that?

I'm just saying, that's exactly the kind of thing that I actually do mention when I do critiques. Sure...sometimes I'm wrong, but assuming that I'm right I think it's something that deserves to be said. It's essentially noticing when people are peddling BS and then calling them out on it. And I think that serves a useful lesson just as any other. If they don't learn that people can see that they're full of $***, how are they ever gonna know to stop doing that?

I'm not saying that you SHOULD call them out for that stuff, but that's worthy of commenting on. If more people were actually willing to speak up instead of saying, "they're just full of $***, no reason to talk to them", then maybe some of the people who do that stuff would actually realize how transparent their attempts are and how no one is freaking buying into it. I know it's not your job to help people improve, but I tend to think that some people might improve if people were more willing to actually call them out on their BS. Don't tell ME that some other guy was clearly not making a serious effort. I'm not the one who needs to hear that, he/she is the one who needs to hear that.

I'm pretty blunt, but I dont hunt down people to confront on here, so after a while I just ignore those people. Sometimes i sit back and watch the circus.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
oaktree
Goldmember
1,835 posts
Joined Mar 2007
     
Jun 12, 2014 12:29 |  #66

Scatterbrained wrote in post #16925074 (external link)
Reasons why I won't say anything:
1) The image is so bad I don't know where to start. I feel it would be a bit too much to say "that's so bad I can't find a single redeeming aspect of the image". Granted it's rare, but it happens.
2) The image might be technically sound, in the way a snapshot from a P&S might be sound, but it does nothing for me. I feel this way about 99% of bird/macro/sports/airp​lane photos, therefor I just don't say anything.
3) I may see an obvious issue with the image, but the thread is so full of attaboys that I feel it would be out of place to point out what I felt was obvious.

I agree with you. Probably, better to say nothing. I will rarely say, "Great shot!" and leave it at that. I have a thin skin and assume others are like me. Would not be happy with "Your capture really SUCKS!".


Too much stuff, not enough shooting time.

Canon T4i (2 lenses), Fuji X100s, Olympus OM-D EM-1 (3 lenses)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
kfreels
Goldmember
Avatar
4,297 posts
Likes: 6
Joined Aug 2010
Location: Princeton, IN
     
Jun 12, 2014 13:10 |  #67

I do find occasions where I see a photo that just isn't something I care about. It's not that it's bad. It just does nothing for me. Often it's just the choice of subject. I want to say "why did you even bother taking that shot?" or "That's a really nice shot of a blade of grass you got there." But the WHY someone takes a shot is a personal thing and really isn't my place to question or critique. So I'll just pass on it. That blade of grass may have some kind of meaning to the person who took the shot.


I am serious....and don't call me Shirley.
Canon 7D and a bunch of other stuff

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
DC ­ Fan
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
5,881 posts
Gallery: 3 photos
Likes: 50
Joined Oct 2005
     
Jun 12, 2014 14:05 as a reply to  @ kfreels's post |  #68

An unusual point of online critiques is the "how dare you do something differently than what I would have done without my permission" attitude.

Sometimes the need to control is stronger than the need to understand.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
ejenner
Goldmember
Avatar
3,860 posts
Gallery: 96 photos
Likes: 1033
Joined Nov 2011
Location: Denver, CO
     
Jun 12, 2014 22:56 as a reply to  @ DC Fan's post |  #69

I only critique when I think I might have something useful for the photographer (not that I think they should take it necessarily) and that nearly always means the shot has enough merit to comment on.

It a shot is just crap, what is the point? It's like 'this shot is crap, but you think it is worth people's time to comment on - go look at some real photographs and compare yours and then come back'.

Of course there is lots of stuff like portraits and lighting that I don't feel even close to 'qualified' to critique and lots more that might be OK, but isn't my thing. just saying 'I don't like it' is pointless - just as pointless as 'it's great, good job'.


Edward Jenner
5DIV, M6, GX1 II, Sig15mm FE, 16-35 F4,TS-E 17, TS-E 24, 35 f2 IS, M11-22, M18-150 ,24-105, T45 1.8VC, 70-200 f4 IS, 70-200 2.8 vII, Sig 85 1.4, 100L, 135L, 400DOII.
http://www.flickr.com/​photos/48305795@N03/ (external link)
https://www.facebook.c​om/edward.jenner.372/p​hotos (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

8,333 views & 0 likes for this thread
Brutal Critiques vs Silence
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Boyota
911 guests, 317 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.