Canon 60D Users, Unite! (4!)

^^/^ What a couple of cuties...

Question for 60D users. . .

Any 60D users have trouble with servo focus accuracy shooting at apertures of f/3.2 and larger?

I've recently noticed I'm having a real problem maintaining focus when trying to shoot sports with my 60D paired with fast lenses. I use center point AF and back-button focus, and it works great if I'm stopped down to f3.5 and beyond. I recently tried a Tamron 70-200 2.8, which is a great lens, but noticed if I didn't stop down to 3.5 or more, the AF just wouldn't keep up. More recently,I had the same experience with a canon 50mm 1.4. I can shoot my 24-105 at f4 all day long and the servo focus is fine. The Tamron at f3.5 was solid as well, but starting at 3.2 servo focus just went to hell.

I'm wondering if what I thought was a lens problem (3rd party AF just not working well enough) is actually a limitation of the body. The 60D's center point is supposed to be a more sensitive cross type sensor up to f 2.8, which should allow me to use the open aperture and the center AF point. But it's just not working for me right now. Is it just beyond the capability of the camera to do?

Any users here have success shooting sports or other "action" at more open apertures with the 60D?

No problem with EF 50 f1.8, EF 24-70 MkII f2.8 or EF 70-200 MkII f2.8.

I shoot exclusively BBF AIServo and I can place any AF point anywhere and make the shot fully open.

I think the Tamron is probably having the difficulty...

mplezia wrote in post #16983915
Question for 60D users. . .

Any 60D users have trouble with servo focus accuracy shooting at apertures of f/3.2 and larger?

I've recently noticed I'm having a real problem maintaining focus when trying to shoot sports with my 60D paired with fast lenses. I use center point AF and back-button focus, and it works great if I'm stopped down to f3.5 and beyond. I recently tried a Tamron 70-200 2.8, which is a great lens, but noticed if I didn't stop down to 3.5 or more, the AF just wouldn't keep up. More recently,I had the same experience with a canon 50mm 1.4. I can shoot my 24-105 at f4 all day long and the servo focus is fine. The Tamron at f3.5 was solid as well, but starting at 3.2 servo focus just went to hell.

I'm wondering if what I thought was a lens problem (3rd party AF just not working well enough) is actually a limitation of the body. The 60D's center point is supposed to be a more sensitive cross type sensor up to f 2.8, which should allow me to use the open aperture and the center AF point. But it's just not working for me right now. Is it just beyond the capability of the camera to do?

Any users here have success shooting sports or other "action" at more open apertures with the 60D?

I've shot a lot of hockey at 2.8 without any issues on my 60D.

MakisM1 wrote in post #16983965
No problem with EF 50 f1.8, EF 24-70 MkII f2.8 or EF 70-200 MkII f2.8.

I shoot exclusively BBF AIServo and I can place any AF point anywhere and make the shot fully open.

I think the Tamron is probably having the difficulty...

I'm starting to narrow it down to the Tamron or the photographer.

Great. I'll keep working on it. Will probably do some more testing with canon lenses to see if I can get it sorted out. The Tamron 70-200 is really a nice lens, so it was disheartening to have this problem with it.

MakisM1 wrote in post #16983965
No problem with EF 50 f1.8, EF 24-70 MkII f2.8 or EF 70-200 MkII f2.8.

I shoot exclusively BBF AIServo and I can place any AF point anywhere and make the shot fully open.

I think the Tamron is probably having the difficulty...

I prefer one shot for some reason

Cameras generally autofocus at the widest aperture a lens can provide, so stopping down a lens doesn’t change autofocusing. On your f/1.8 it focuses at f/1.8 even if you set f/16 for a shot. Then it stops down and takes the picture. You’ll notice the difference if you stop a lens down, look through the view finder and focus on something (the viewfinder doesn’t darken) and then press the Depth of field preview button: the view finder will get darker, the aperture set to f/16. Page 117 of the English manual for the DOF button.

There are a few possibilities. When using one-shot autofocus and single shot drive, the camera shouldn’t release the shutter unless focus is achieved. You could use that to test the camera’s part in focusing, on a tripod of course, aperture wide open.

Slight front or back focus: Lenses and cameras are designed to tolerances. If the individual camera is at one extreme of tolerance and the lens at the other, front or back focusing (in front of, or behind the subject) can occur. This will be more evident with narrow depth of field –wide aperture- than stopped down. That’s what microadjust is about, but the 60D doesn’t have that. The remedy is to have the lens adjusted to the camera by the manufacturer or someone who knows what he’s doing. If ALL (fast) lenses give the problem then having Canon calibrate the camera might be a good idea.

User ‘error’. Remember that with AIServo the shutter will be released when you press it, regardless of correct focus, and there is no focus confirmation in AI. Half-press the shutter button (or back button focus) and give the camera a second to find focus before releasing the shutter. Shooting fast bursts is always iffy because of lack of focus confirmation, but if you start off with an unfocused shot it’s a good bet all shots will be out of focus. So wide open at 1.8 or 2.8 (DOF again) out of focus odds grow compared to stopped down. Combine that with front or back focus and you could have a problem.

My copy of the 60D has no noticeable front or back focus problems. The 50mm f/1.8 II (the cheap one) doesn’t focus fast, so wide open it misses more often than not in AIServo bursts, for me. The first shot however, because I wait that second, is 99% good. Hand held, single shot, it’s great but slow to focus. 70-200 f/2.8, no problems at all, lightning fast focus. So I would say it’s not the 60D’s focusing abilities. I’d start with suspecting imperfect user technique, slow focus lens, and gradually maybe graduate to front/back focus in lens and/or camera.

Any other suggestions could be true too

Regarding AIServo vs OneShot in fast moving situations...

In OneShot you get confirmation that the camera has achieved focus and you release the shutter on the focus that was achieved then.

Learn to trust your AIServo (preferably with a USM driven lens... ..)

For some reason my 60d has terrible backfocusing issues, and at low ISO is excessively grainy.

JWdlft thanks for adding your thoughts. I didn't realize that the camera would basically focus at the largest aperture. That's interesting; I'll have to think about that a little bit.

I'm shooting with BBF, so I would focus on target and give it a second to focus, then track the target with my center point, continuing to focus. I think my technique is adequate given the results I get with my 24-105.

In my case, with the Tamron 70-200 2.8, single shot focus was very good, even at 2.8. AI Servo was generally good at 3.5 and smaller, but straight up bad at 2.8 and 3.2. The initial frame would tend to be decent, but by the 3rd or 4th shot in a burst it would be OOF. It seemed like the AF motor just wouldn't keep up with the action. The DOF difference between 3.2 and 3.5 would be an inch or two, so I don't think that explains my results. It may add to the problem, but I think it only a small part of the story. Although, given your point about focusing at the largest aperture, I suppose I can't really explain the difference in results between 3.2 and 3.5.

Shooting my 24-105 at f/4, it was dead on. My son coming straight at me on his bike -- nailed.

As you mention with your 50mm 1.8, the quality of the AF motor/system may be the culprit. That's my current best guess given the users here who have had success with the 60D and the better Canon lenses. I'll probably wind up renting a Canon 70-200 to see if I can achieve better results.

JWdlft wrote in post #16984999
Cameras generally autofocus at the widest aperture a lens can provide, so stopping down a lens doesn’t change autofocusing. On your f/1.8 it focuses at f/1.8 even if you set f/16 for a shot. Then it stops down and takes the picture. You’ll notice the difference if you stop a lens down, look through the view finder and focus on something (the viewfinder doesn’t darken) and then press the Depth of field preview button: the view finder will get darker, the aperture set to f/16. Page 117 of the English manual for the DOF button.

There are a few possibilities. When using one-shot autofocus and single shot drive, the camera shouldn’t release the shutter unless focus is achieved. You could use that to test the camera’s part in focusing, on a tripod of course, aperture wide open.

Slight front or back focus: Lenses and cameras are designed to tolerances. If the individual camera is at one extreme of tolerance and the lens at the other, front or back focusing (in front of, or behind the subject) can occur. This will be more evident with narrow depth of field –wide aperture- than stopped down. That’s what microadjust is about, but the 60D doesn’t have that. The remedy is to have the lens adjusted to the camera by the manufacturer or someone who knows what he’s doing. If ALL (fast) lenses give the problem then having Canon calibrate the camera might be a good idea.

User ‘error’. Remember that with AIServo the shutter will be released when you press it, regardless of correct focus, and there is no focus confirmation in AI. Half-press the shutter button (or back button focus) and give the camera a second to find focus before releasing the shutter. Shooting fast bursts is always iffy because of lack of focus confirmation, but if you start off with an unfocused shot it’s a good bet all shots will be out of focus. So wide open at 1.8 or 2.8 (DOF again) out of focus odds grow compared to stopped down. Combine that with front or back focus and you could have a problem.

My copy of the 60D has no noticeable front or back focus problems. The 50mm f/1.8 II (the cheap one) doesn’t focus fast, so wide open it misses more often than not in AIServo bursts, for me. The first shot however, because I wait that second, is 99% good. Hand held, single shot, it’s great but slow to focus. 70-200 f/2.8, no problems at all, lightning fast focus. So I would say it’s not the 60D’s focusing abilities. I’d start with suspecting imperfect user technique, slow focus lens, and gradually maybe graduate to front/back focus in lens and/or camera.

Any other suggestions could be true too

Got some college graduation money from my girlfriends parents, with a card that basically said, go get a new camera. So I was looking at the 70D but decided on the 60D since I didn't see a whole lot of an upgrade for what I shoot.

Here's a bit of what I've used it for so far!

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Just a couple of shots of vintage planes at a local show.

I didn't crank up the saturation on the Stearman, but I may have been using a polarizer, I don't remember...

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Just got a refurbished 60d. moved up from a t1i and I couldn't be happier.

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