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Thread started 27 Jun 2014 (Friday) 16:19
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Photographer vs. Police

 
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Preeb
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Jun 28, 2014 10:12 |  #31

gremlin75 wrote in post #16999343 (external link)
Officers deal with a lot of crap, put themselves in dangerous situations, get paid crap, are always under a microscope, and have to deal with a lot of jack holes. It's the job. You know that going in. I beleive you deal with it or don't do the job!

Exactly, so if you have nothing to hide why not make his job easier by just offering you driver's license for ID? I wouldn't even question it if an officer asked me politely for ID. I have nothing to hide. Just taking someone's word that he's giving his real name and DoB is to my way of thinking being awfully gullible. If his real intent was something illegal, he's probably got a story all prepared. Like believing everything that you read posted on an internet forum.


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Jun 28, 2014 10:47 |  #32

Preeb wrote in post #16999399 (external link)
Exactly, so if you have nothing to hide why not make his job easier by just offering you driver's license for ID?

He could have, but again, he is well within his rights to deny the request to hand over his ID. He is well within his right to deny answering any questions (and if he was doing something suspicious then the officer would have been within his rights to detain him) He was doing nothin illegal so they were just fishing and the fish refused to bite. LOL!

In the video you can hear the first officer tell the second officer that he's "clear" meaning he has no wants, warrants, or criminal history. Personally at that point I would have said, " I'm clear so am I free to go or are you detaining me?" because at that point there is no reason to continue any questioning. No illegal activity is taking place and there are no warrants or criminal history. There is no reason for the second instance of questioning!




  
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Luckless
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Jun 28, 2014 11:05 |  #33

Dan Marchant wrote in post #16999050 (external link)
Waah?! Seriously, how does being on the other side of the road "bother" a policeman? The guy was standing there filming. That isn't illegal and it certainly doesn't interfere with the police doing there job any more than someone standing watching would. There simply was no "reasonable grounds" and the police should never have approached him.

1. Did you READ the section of text quoted above my response? "those that are respectful and are trying to educate the police"

2. There very much IS reasonable grounds to approach someone standing at the sidelines of an event and begin questioning them. Are they just some random curious onlooker who stumbled across a scene and are trying to be nosy? Or are they someone with some stake involved, possibly another suspect who is worried about their friends/stash/whatever and is too dumb to just calmly walk away?

3. My original statement was far more in general and in direct response to the person I was quoting, and not as much about the video in the original post. However in that video he begins to be a bother when he chooses the dickish tone in which to converse with. He is hesitant, appears slightly nervous, projects as if he is trying to lie and hide something. Is it his right to do so? Yes. Is it a smart or polite thing to do? No. (And no. I did not bother watching the entire video. I got sick of listening to his self-righteous evasive comments rather quickly because I've watched far too many videos like this already.)

If a bear wanders up to you, and you sit there to deliberately bait it into biting you to prove to the world that a bear bites and there is a problem, then I will have zero pity when you get bit, even if the bear is in the wrong. I would want the bear dealt with of course, because a bear biting people isn't a good thing, but I'm not going to get overly worked up over the idiot that went out of his way to get bit while trying to be cocky.


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Jun 28, 2014 11:13 |  #34

The videographer and the officers all acted as if they were trying to prove something, like puffed-up kids making boasts and threats in a schoolyard. A battle of the giant egos.

No one has mentioned that the location was important. I don't know of a legitimate reason for the repeated question "Where are you from?" but residents of small towns tend to mistrust outsiders. In addition, this was a small Southern town, the officers spoke with local accents and the videographer didn't, and the cultural history of the area includes ideas about "those damn Yankees who come down here and think they can tell us what to do."


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NYRGTO
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Jun 28, 2014 11:16 |  #35

Luckless wrote in post #16999505 (external link)
2. There very much IS reasonable grounds to approach someone standing at the sidelines of an event and begin questioning them. Are they just some random curious onlooker who stumbled across a scene and are trying to be nosy? Or are they someone with some stake involved, possibly another suspect who is worried about their friends/stash/whatever and is too dumb to just calmly walk away?

There is no problem with an officer approaching them and trying to get information from them. However, a person who is standing on a public sidewalk is under no obligation to give their personal information to police. If the guy in the video had no camera he likely would have never been approached by the police. THAT is the problem with these videos. A camera does not make a criminal.


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NYRGTO
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Jun 28, 2014 11:22 |  #36

Luckless wrote in post #16999505 (external link)
1. Did you READ the section of text quoted above my response? "those that are respectful and are trying to educate the police"

If a citizen isn't going to stand up for his right as an american then who is?


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Jun 28, 2014 11:26 |  #37

It's good to have the right to be provocative, and it's also good to have the discernment to know when to exercise it.


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Preeb
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Jun 28, 2014 11:58 |  #38

NYRGTO wrote in post #16999527 (external link)
If a citizen isn't going to stand up for his right as an american then who is?

You need to pick your time to fight when there is actually a reason for it. Taking offense every time an officer asks for ID is just paranoia, unless you actually have cause to be afraid of something. I've been approached by police many times for one reason or another, and it's easiest to simply cooperate and let them do their job. I don't want to be the guy who puts a road block in the way of an investigation just because I'm "protecting my rights".

The US is a nation of law, and if I can make the job of those whose job is to enforce that law a little easier, then that's the way I'm going to go.


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Jun 28, 2014 12:02 |  #39

Preeb wrote in post #16999399 (external link)
Exactly, so if you have nothing to hide why not make his job easier by just offering you driver's license for ID? I wouldn't even question it if an officer asked me politely for ID. I have nothing to hide. Just taking someone's word that he's giving his real name and DoB is to my way of thinking being awfully gullible. If his real intent was something illegal, he's probably got a story all prepared. Like believing everything that you read posted on an internet forum.

This is what I have to say about handing your ID at any request - "Papers please"

In many states you are only required to identify yourself (name, possibly DOB or address). If I am not driving, they have no reason to have my license. No where in this country requires everyone to have an ID.

Also, to require ID you must be detained. To be detained, the officer must have a reasonable, articulatable, suspicion that you committed a specific crime. I doubt any of these officers had that kind of suspicion.

If you are okay with the officers justifying their actions without the support of law (which they usually do not in these cases), know that that is on its way to us actually living in a police state.

Annoying a cop is not against the law. For that reason alone, it may occasionally need to be done, lest they forget we are allowed to do so.


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Jun 28, 2014 12:12 |  #40

Preeb wrote in post #16999577 (external link)
You need to pick your time to fight when there is actually a reason for it. Taking offense every time an officer asks for ID is just paranoia, unless you actually have cause to be afraid of something. I've been approached by police many times for one reason or another, and it's easiest to simply cooperate and let them do their job. I don't want to be the guy who puts a road block in the way of an investigation just because I'm "protecting my rights".

The US is a nation of law, and if I can make the job of those whose job is to enforce that law a little easier, then that's the way I'm going to go.

Bravo. +1.

There is a time for defending rights and a time for voluntarily and temporarily suspending the exercise of a right.


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Luckless
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Jun 28, 2014 12:14 |  #41

And of course no one has any kind of representatives at any level of government to go to with their complains and push for an actual useful change that could result in better, nation wide, training and review...

People will bleat on about how important it is that they live in a Democracy (which they don't), and then promptly ignore the mechanics set forth by their form of government that encourage changes to be driven in an organized manner.


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Preeb
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Jun 28, 2014 12:16 |  #42

MattPharmD wrote in post #16999581 (external link)
This is what I have to say about handing your ID at any request - "Papers please"

In many states you are only required to identify yourself (name, possibly DOB or address). If I am not driving, they have no reason to have my license. No where in this country requires everyone to have an ID.

Also, to require ID you must be detained. To be detained, the officer must have a reasonable, articulatable, suspicion that you committed a specific crime. I doubt any of these officers had that kind of suspicion.

If you are okay with the officers justifying their actions without the support of law (which they usually do not in these cases), know that that is on its way to us actually living in a police state.

Annoying a cop is not against the law. For that reason alone, it may occasionally need to be done, lest they forget we are allowed to do so.

And you are expressing exactly the paranoia I was referring to. I have never had an officer demand ID unless it was a traffic stop. I have had them ask politely, and I don't have an issue with offering it. Annoying a cop is stupid.


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dkizzle
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Jun 28, 2014 12:55 |  #43

I think the videographer was a bit of a douche and intentionally provoked every officer involved. He had constitution on his side but did not have to act like an ass. Texas’s law requires a person to provide their name, residence address and date of birth if lawfully arrested and asked by police. (A detained person or witness of a crime is not required to provide any identifying information, however it is a crime for a detained person or witness to give a false name.) He did provide his name and dob but not his address. He could've ended it all by saying I'm local or I live in Occupy Wall Street. Instead he wanted to make an activist video. Instead of avoiding an argument he instigated it. If he would provide his id to first officer without being defensive the whole confrontation with several officers could've been avoided.


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Jun 28, 2014 12:59 |  #44

MattPharmD wrote in post #16999581 (external link)
Annoying a cop is not against the law. For that reason alone, it may occasionally need to be done, lest they forget we are allowed to do so.

Around a year ago, a man and woman were walking down a street in an older part of my city known for its high gang and criminal activity. An officer saw the couple, both having cameras slung on their shoulders, pulled up and questioned them if they needed any help. They stated no and continued walking. The officer asked them where they were from and if they knew the area. The man told the officer unless he was being detained he was not answering any questions. The couple continued on their way and the officer left. Within the hour, the couple that had ventured into the neighborhood to take photos of older victorian homes were not only robbed of their camera equipment, but all their cash and cellphones as well. Ironically, the same officer that stopped to speak with them initially and let them know about the area was the same one to take the report. I do believe that some cops may overstep their scope of authority, but most are there just trying to keep the sheep from the wolves.




  
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dkizzle
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Jun 28, 2014 13:11 |  #45

MDJAK wrote in post #16999124 (external link)
Officer had a right to inquire. Dude is a dickhead. Doesn't have ID? Can't remember last time I was out and about without my wallet. He's just trying to cause trouble.

I guess as New Yawkers we agree. In other place, time and circumstances his ass could've been severely beaten for being so smart to cops. I know I would not talk to NYPD the same way he did.


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