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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 04 Apr 2012 (Wednesday) 08:26
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Composition and all that Arty stuff - discussion thread.

 
airfrogusmc
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Jun 28, 2014 16:19 |  #3406

Lowner wrote in post #16997085 (external link)
I believe that in the "heat of the moment" the photographer has to work on instinct. By all means pre-plan as much as possible, but the exact moment that shutter button is pressed and the shape" an action shot makes in the viewfinder is all down to instinct.

Pre plan. Not me... Some great words and exactly how i do my best work by Meyerowitz.

It says poster not available but just push the play button....
http://www.traileraddi​ct.com/everybody-street/trailer (external link)

To do this type of work well takes a real ability to see the moment and the skill to capture it when you see it as it happens. Bresson called it a developed instinct.




  
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airfrogusmc
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Jun 28, 2014 16:23 |  #3407

OhLook wrote in post #16990087 (external link)
The woman petting the cat probably thought I was just taking a picture of a cat. Instead, I was practicing finding compositions in ordinary scenes, including those that include something that moves.

QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: http://s641.photobucke​t.com …2214_zps0a13309​e.jpg.html  (external link)

I meant to comment on this yesterday sorry I'm late but in my opinion there are some interesting things going on here. I really like hte strong movement from the upper left into the frame. At first you think this is just a picture of a cat but then you start seeing the triangles. Then the different textures. The rough concrete and the soft fur. To me this is not a picture of a cat but a study of shape, texture and subtle color. Theres a light blue (jacket) and the warm skin tones. I mean you can feel the heat of the sun and the softness of the fur and then there are the some very interesting design elements also working here.

Oh Look some of the best work I see on sites like here get little in way of comments. I would rather see a photo that looks like a photo that you took than a 1,000 photos that look like every ever other photo I see.




  
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chauncey
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Jun 28, 2014 18:48 as a reply to  @ post 16999951 |  #3408

It must be an area thingy then because I've never seen it. :confused:


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Ricardo222
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Jun 28, 2014 20:23 |  #3409

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16999957 (external link)
Pre plan. Not me... Some great words and exactly how i do my best work by Meyerowitz.

It says poster not available but just push the play button....
http://www.traileraddi​ct.com/everybody-street/trailer (external link)

To do this type of work well takes a real ability to see the moment and the skill to capture it when you see it as it happens. Bresson called it a developed instinct.

I liked that, specially the phrase "...moment of clarification"!

Lowner wrote in post #16997085 (external link)
I believe that in the "heat of the moment" the photographer has to work on instinct. By all means pre-plan as much as possible, but the exact moment that shutter button is pressed and the shape" an action shot makes in the viewfinder is all down to instinct.

Yes. And that working by instinct comes to most of us through practice and study. Study of our craft, but also in action or wiildlife photography in particular, by being able to anticipate what might come next.


Growing old disgracefully!

  
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airfrogusmc
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Jun 28, 2014 20:43 |  #3410

Ricardo222 wrote in post #16996660 (external link)
I only had a few moments to grab this shot, waiting as long as I could for the plane to reach darker cloud but just before he climbed out of the dive. so the framing was more instinctive than carefully planned. (This has not been cropped, SOOC except for just a touch of contrast added.)

I like this a lot Ricardo. The plane tuning back towards the viewer stops the eye from moving out of the frame yet still gives the image a nice sense of speed and movement.




  
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Ricardo222
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Jun 28, 2014 21:14 |  #3411

airfrogusmc wrote in post #17000291 (external link)
I like this a lot Ricardo. The plane tuning back towards the viewer stops the eye from moving out of the frame yet still gives the image a nice sense of speed and movement.

Thanks Allen. I have to say that all the conversations I have followed in this and other threads have left a mark. That big 600mm lens on it's gimbal takes on a life of it's own...and the subject wants to jump all over the place which is where the practice and instinct come in, specially as one is shooting at low shutter speeds to allow for propeller blur.

(I have to say that I have learned a lot about photographing aircraft from Jay Beckman who is amongst the true masters of that craft.)


Growing old disgracefully!

  
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OhLook
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Jun 28, 2014 21:23 |  #3412

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16999966 (external link)
I meant to comment on this yesterday sorry I'm late but in my opinion there are some interesting things going on here. I really like hte strong movement from the upper left . . . and then there are the some very interesting design elements also working here.

Am I ever glad you turned up! I've felt lately that I've hit a plateau. It's harder than a few weeks ago to find scenes while walking around that strike me as having potential. Then we met a woman and her neighbor's cat. The hand and the cat were both moving. When I saw a set of shapes I liked on the screen, I pressed the button. This picture isn't cropped.

The two who commented weren't unkind, but the message I took from what they said was that there simply wasn't anything in the image to interest them. That's worse than a plateau. Maybe I've been sliding downhill! But after your comment it seems more likely that different viewers will have different sensibilities and will evaluate images in ways that are personal to them.

Thank you very much.


PRONOUN ADVISORY: OhLook is a she. | A FEW CORRECT SPELLINGS: lens, aperture, amateur, hobbyist, per se, raccoon, whoa, more so (2 wds.), shoo-in | Comments welcome

  
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airfrogusmc
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Jun 28, 2014 21:34 |  #3413

OhLook wrote in post #17000347 (external link)
Am I ever glad you turned up! I've felt lately that I've hit a plateau. It's harder than a few weeks ago to find scenes while walking around that strike me as having potential. Then we met a woman and her neighbor's cat. The hand and the cat were both moving. When I saw a set of shapes I liked on the screen, I pressed the button. This picture isn't cropped.

The two who commented weren't unkind, but the message I took from what they said was that there simply wasn't anything in the image to interest them. That's worse than a plateau. Maybe I've been sliding downhill! But after your comment it seems more likely that different viewers will have different sensibilities and will evaluate images in ways that are personal to them.

Thank you very much.

Many people want to see photographs that look like photographs they know and are obvious instead of looking for things that are not so obvious. Keep following your vision and not popularity. You have a good eye and see differently than most. (thats a very good thing). Follow that where ever it leads you. You might not find to many fans but if you are honest you will find your way. I can just imagine what Joel Peter-Witkin went through or Diane Arbus.




  
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DocFrankenstein
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Jun 28, 2014 23:10 |  #3414

airfrogusmc wrote in post #17000368 (external link)
Follow that where ever it leads you. You might not find to many fans but if you are honest you will find your way. I can just imagine what Joel Peter-Witkin went through or Diane Arbus.

Let's not wish OhLook to go the same way Arbus did. ;)

OhLook - don't mind my "criticism", I have a very basic understanding of composition and even less practice applying it myself, so airfrog is someone I'd pay attention to.


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Clean ­ Gene
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Jun 29, 2014 02:20 |  #3415

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16999966 (external link)
I meant to comment on this yesterday sorry I'm late but in my opinion there are some interesting things going on here. I really like hte strong movement from the upper left into the frame. At first you think this is just a picture of a cat but then you start seeing the triangles. Then the different textures. The rough concrete and the soft fur. To me this is not a picture of a cat but a study of shape, texture and subtle color. Theres a light blue (jacket) and the warm skin tones. I mean you can feel the heat of the sun and the softness of the fur and then there are the some very interesting design elements also working here.

Oh Look some of the best work I see on sites like here get little in way of comments. I would rather see a photo that looks like a photo that you took than a 1,000 photos that look like every ever other photo I see.

I just want to pick out one thing here. In particular, your comment about the rough contrast and the soft fur.

That kind of struck me as a little bit weird, because the lighting which was employed isn't doing a lot to emphasize texture. Same lighting, same focus/sharpness. Neither looks harder or softer than the other (if anything, I'd say that the fur looks softer because of the rigid spikes, while the concrete is just flat). In order for me to agree with the hard/soft relationship/contrast, I feel like I need to already know that concrete=hard and cat=equals soft. I feel like I need to override what I'm literally seeing, and to replace that with trivia and biases and assumptions that I have picked up at some point in the past.

That's not a bad thing. Nothing wrong with that. Any language (visual or not) is going to have to require a certain degree of assumption when it comes to "what feeling is conveyed" or "what is this saying?"

My point is that the same process is happening when one dismisses it as a snapshot. I'm TOTALLY making assumptions when I see harsh midday sun with a cat (I blame the internet for this). My prior experiences inform me of what a "snapshot" looks like. That's not to say that I'm right, but this brings up questions. I see the use of various triangles and other design elements, but I can't see how they relate to everything else. What does that stuff say about the cat (after all we can't just be expected to totally ignore the obvious, which is "cat"), and what does the cat say about design? What does all of this say about shape, texture, and design? I see shapes, textures, and designs in there, but I am genuinely confused as to what the image is saying about them. Can you help me out a little bit on that?




  
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tonylong
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Jun 29, 2014 02:38 |  #3416

OK, I'll jump in here, not because I have any expertise to offer but because, well, hey, it's Saturday night...

Anyway, if I take a quick look at the shot by OhLook, well, it's a snapshot, in fact it was probably snapped from a cellphone, just a quick snap!

But then I know that OhLook has been really working, going "outside the box", with all this composition "stuff" in mind, and so when she posts something, I pay attention to such things!

We're on a journey, and I see OhLook as pursuing that journey! As to that one photo of a cat on a sidewalk being petted by some person, well, sure, maybe I have a snapshot like that (somewhere), but as to whether her shot is capturing something that she sees, well...I'm enjoying the ride!!


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airfrogusmc
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Jun 29, 2014 08:13 |  #3417

Clean Gene wrote in post #17000657 (external link)
I just want to pick out one thing here. In particular, your comment about the rough contrast and the soft fur.

That kind of struck me as a little bit weird, because the lighting which was employed isn't doing a lot to emphasize texture. Same lighting, same focus/sharpness. Neither looks harder or softer than the other (if anything, I'd say that the fur looks softer because of the rigid spikes, while the concrete is just flat). In order for me to agree with the hard/soft relationship/contrast, I feel like I need to already know that concrete=hard and cat=equals soft. I feel like I need to override what I'm literally seeing, and to replace that with trivia and biases and assumptions that I have picked up at some point in the past.

That's not a bad thing. Nothing wrong with that. Any language (visual or not) is going to have to require a certain degree of assumption when it comes to "what feeling is conveyed" or "what is this saying?"

My point is that the same process is happening when one dismisses it as a snapshot. I'm TOTALLY making assumptions when I see harsh midday sun with a cat (I blame the internet for this). My prior experiences inform me of what a "snapshot" looks like. That's not to say that I'm right, but this brings up questions. I see the use of various triangles and other design elements, but I can't see how they relate to everything else. What does that stuff say about the cat (after all we can't just be expected to totally ignore the obvious, which is "cat"), and what does the cat say about design? What does all of this say about shape, texture, and design? I see shapes, textures, and designs in there, but I am genuinely confused as to what the image is saying about them. Can you help me out a little bit on that?


It's about our own life experiences. We know that direct sun is warm. The fur of cats is usually very soft and concrete is rough. And it's not a photograph about a cat but those experienced relationships and the contrasts. If it were a cat portrait, which the world wide web is full of, then it's not a good cat portrait.

It is an interesting image about subtle color, opposing textures and shape. The obvious cat is only relevant in the fact it is soft and being petted. What it actually looks like is only relevant in its monochromatic color. The person is only relevant to show the act of touching the soft, warmed by the sun fur, which most know what that feels like. The person is also relevant because the cool blue on the jacket also bringing contrast to the warm skin tone.

So rough/smooth. Cool/warm color. Wonderful movement from upper left into the image. A simple life moment that we have all experienced and most important through all of this is it looks like one of Oh Looks photographs.

And with this she is exploring some similar ground as Gibson only she is using color
Heres something because Oh Looks image did remind me a bit of this by Gibson
http://pleasurephotoro​om.files.wordpress.com …ibson-day-at-sea-1972.jpg (external link)

And a few words on the snapshot aesthetic
http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/Snapshot_aesthe​tic (external link)




  
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airfrogusmc
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Jun 29, 2014 08:16 as a reply to  @ airfrogusmc's post |  #3418

IMAGE: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/airfrogusmc/airfrogusmc021/L1024786_zps958f3aed.jpg



  
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airfrogusmc
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Jun 29, 2014 10:37 |  #3419

If anyone is going to be in New York on July 1 please stop by.

I was selected for this exhibit at the Soho Gallery in New York. It was a juried show and only 42 images were chosen from over 2600. The opening is July 1.

Heres the info..
http://www.sohophoto.c​om …te/competitions​/national/ (external link)

And here is the photograph that they selected.

IMAGE: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/airfrogusmc/airfrogusmc019/L1002146_1sharpened_zps66374c7c.jpg

Here are some 8 1/2 X 11 handouts I made for the exhibit.
IMAGE: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/airfrogusmc/shows/Handout_zps26935c02.jpg

And besides having one of my photos selected to be in the exhibit at the Soho Gallery in New York, I just found out that I was selected to have a one man exhibit at the Rangefinder Galley here in Chicago at 300 W Superior probably next July but the exact month hasn't been determined but it will be sometime next summer. If you can't make New York and live near Chicago please come by that exhibit next summer.



  
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OhLook
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Jun 29, 2014 11:44 |  #3420

Clean Gene wrote in post #17000657 (external link)
I just want to pick out one thing here. In particular, your comment about the rough contrast and the soft fur.

That kind of struck me as a little bit weird, because the lighting which was employed isn't doing a lot to emphasize texture.

"Employed"? I didn't have that much control. The lighting was available. Midday is the most practical time for me to go out, and it was a bright day.

My point is that the same process is happening when one dismisses it as a snapshot. I'm TOTALLY making assumptions when I see harsh midday sun with a cat (I blame the internet for this).

Could it be that when you see a cat, you think "There's a cat" and you stop looking?

airfrogusmc wrote in post #17000932 (external link)
It's about our own life experiences. We know that direct sun is warm. The fur of cats is usually very soft and concrete is rough. And it's not a photograph about a cat but those experienced relationships and the contrasts. If it were a cat portrait, which the world wide web is full of, then it's not a good cat portrait.

You are so right. Had I been trying for a cat portrait, I would have rejected this shot because most of the face doesn't show and some of the tail is cut off at the top. After I took pictures, the woman said "It'll be the ten millionth cat on the Internet" (no one had mentioned the Internet until then). Maybe it is, but putting another cat on the Internet wasn't the point. The marginal utility of Internet cats is by now very low.

It is an interesting image about subtle color, opposing textures and shape.

Opposition between the manufactured environment and what happens there. Sidewalks (with their dull, uniform color and their straight lines and geometric forms) are made for walking, not for showing affection to animals. The organic forms (multicolored with curved lines: woman and cat) are at this spot temporarily. The woman interrupted her other business to get down on a knee and attend to the cat. She was carrying things--you can see bits of a bag or something at the right--and later she got into a car and drove off. Of course, you can't see her exit, but something near the right edge isn't clothing. So, among other things, the picture is about time.

The person is only relevant to show the act of touching the soft, warmed by the sun fur, which most know what that feels like. The person is also relevant because the cool blue on the jacket also bringing contrast to the warm skin tone.

I didn't think of rendering temperature. That you see it there is a surprise. I did have complementary colors in mind, at least at the stage of viewing on the computer.

Another thing about colors: it was fortunate that the pants were white, like the cat's torso, which is the main mass of the cat and is similar in shape to the woman's thigh.

And a few words on the snapshot aesthetic
http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/Snapshot_aesthe​tic (external link)

Phooey. I thought I was proceeding independently.

The Wiki article is inconsistent about whether the subject is centered. Subjects are usually centered in snapshots, but off-center framing is mentioned early as a feature of this style.


PRONOUN ADVISORY: OhLook is a she. | A FEW CORRECT SPELLINGS: lens, aperture, amateur, hobbyist, per se, raccoon, whoa, more so (2 wds.), shoo-in | Comments welcome

  
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