Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 19 Jun 2014 (Thursday) 22:41
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

7D versus 70D - AF Focus System Differences | ISO Performance | IQ

 
dinanm3atl
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
Avatar
3,120 posts
Likes: 106
Joined Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
     
Jul 02, 2014 09:52 as a reply to  @ post 17005892 |  #31

GregDunn wrote in post #17002834 (external link)
One thing that a lot of people don't understand about sensors: the 70D has more pixels in the same area as a 7D. Therefore, the pixel full well capacity will be the same or less, meaning the raw signal to noise will be similar.

No doubt Canon has improved the JPEG processing algorithms and processed images may have improvement over the 7D. But the Raw images, as indicated above, are only slightly better if at all - most of the improvement is due to having more pixels which means that you crop in PP or resize and eliminate some noise. Further, it is possible that the pattern of the noise is improved which means that the noise may be less objectionable. But like others, my 7D lives in point expansion mode and the additional AF modes are the reason I chose it in the first place.


This is my potential hold up. How much is actually there in improvement? Most are just saying "It's better" but no review really brings forth any solid details.

TJays wrote in post #17002887 (external link)
The 70D is a 60D upgrade series, 7D is a 6D upgrade series, two different series of cameras. It's like comparing a 5D III with a 1DX, they have similar parts & features, but not the same. Not saying all these camera's are not good for what they were designed to do or be attractive to the needs of the shooter.
Best wishes with your choice.

No....

Mike55 wrote in post #17003222 (external link)
The 70D feels like the true upgrade to the 50D, with slightly less build quality.

That is an issue for me. Less build quality. I hated the 60D but if I can get something better I can deal with some problems. But where I shoot I need build quality. The tilt/rotate screen is a gimmic in my world. A gimmic I'd rather not have. And the rear dial/button/whatever they call it sucks I think. Not sure why they took their standard layout from almost every camera and changed it.

This is why the 5D MKIII or 7D MKII seems more interesting to me but have no idea. As said if I can get real world results better I'd consider it.

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #17004377 (external link)
Garbage post, is garbage.

The 70D has nearly every feature that the 7D has, the big thing to keep the 7D interesting is the layout (up to your preference) and the different AF modes. Pretty much everything else tips in favor to the 70D.

As for the 7D to 6D... I really don't even think I need to elaborate... that's just a silly assertion.

That isn't really true. The layout is different. The build quality is way off. Some important things to many. But I think I need to just rent one and test it.


And where the heck is the update to the 7D? Canon would seemingly have a slew of new purchases if one was released as I know of many waiting on it holding onto 7Ds...


Halston - MotorSports Photographer
1Dx - 1Dx - A7r - 400L f/2.8 - 70-200L f/2.8 - 24-105L f/4 - 17-40L f/4 - 50 f/1.4 - 8mm f/3.5 Fisheye - 1.4x TC - 2x TC
Photography Site (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
EverydayGetaway
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
10,420 posts
Gallery: 7 photos
Likes: 3355
Joined Oct 2012
Location: Bowie, MD
     
Jul 02, 2014 10:57 |  #32

dinanm3atl wrote in post #17007147 (external link)
That is an issue for me. Less build quality. I hated the 60D but if I can get something better I can deal with some problems. But where I shoot I need build quality. The tilt/rotate screen is a gimmic in my world. A gimmic I'd rather not have. And the rear dial/button/whatever they call it sucks I think. Not sure why they took their standard layout from almost every camera and changed it.

That isn't really true. The layout is different. The build quality is way off. Some important things to many. But I think I need to just rent one and test it.

And where is it that you shoot that you need more "build quality"? There's absolutely nothing gimmicky about a flip out screen, they're extremely useful and I'm actually thoroughly annoyed that they aren't standard on all DSLR's at this point, including the 1DX.

The build feel may be slightly different between the bodies, but the quality is the same. Weight does not make something "better". A 60D is just as robust as a 7D, the 7D has a bit more weather sealing, but this isn't the case with the 6D, it's just as well sealed. I shoot regularly with a 5D3 and my 6D and I previously owned a 20D, all 3 bodies are just as well built, the 5D and 20D are just heavier and have different layouts.


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // XF 60mm f2.4 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
flickr (external link) // Instagram (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
dinanm3atl
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
Avatar
3,120 posts
Likes: 106
Joined Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
     
Jul 02, 2014 12:30 |  #33

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #17007284 (external link)
And where is it that you shoot that you need more "build quality"? There's absolutely nothing gimmicky about a flip out screen, they're extremely useful and I'm actually thoroughly annoyed that they aren't standard on all DSLR's at this point, including the 1DX.

The build feel may be slightly different between the bodies, but the quality is the same. Weight does not make something "better". A 60D is just as robust as a 7D, the 7D has a bit more weather sealing, but this isn't the case with the 6D, it's just as well sealed. I shoot regularly with a 5D3 and my 6D and I previously owned a 20D, all 3 bodies are just as well built, the 5D and 20D are just heavier and have different layouts.

I'm a motorsports photographer. The 60D and flip out screen felt like cheap rebel line junk. My stuff gets banged around. It gets wet. To say the 60D is 'just about as robust' from my personal experience is far from the truth.

Shot two events with a 60D and immediately sold. If the 70D is anywhere near that it will feel cheap. And as said I am not sure I can give the rear wheel and 'joystick' or whatever they call it another go. Was wondering if there was something there truly and then I might be able to.

The 5D line has the same layout as everything except the Rebel and now 60D/70D. Its easy to go from camera to camera.


Halston - MotorSports Photographer
1Dx - 1Dx - A7r - 400L f/2.8 - 70-200L f/2.8 - 24-105L f/4 - 17-40L f/4 - 50 f/1.4 - 8mm f/3.5 Fisheye - 1.4x TC - 2x TC
Photography Site (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
EverydayGetaway
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
10,420 posts
Gallery: 7 photos
Likes: 3355
Joined Oct 2012
Location: Bowie, MD
     
Jul 02, 2014 12:38 |  #34

dinanm3atl wrote in post #17007454 (external link)
I'm a motorsports photographer. The 60D and flip out screen felt like cheap rebel line junk. My stuff gets banged around. It gets wet. To say the 60D is 'just about as robust' from my personal experience is far from the truth.

Shot two events with a 60D and immediately sold. If the 70D is anywhere near that it will feel cheap. And as said I am not sure I can give the rear wheel and 'joystick' or whatever they call it another go. Was wondering if there was something there truly and then I might be able to.

The 5D line has the same layout as everything except the Rebel and now 60D/70D. Its easy to go from camera to camera.

Again, had a 20D, now own a 6D and often shoot with my friend's 5D3, never have any real issues with the controls on any of the bodies.

And how a camera "feels" doesn't really tell you how robust it is. I've seen plenty of shots of 60D's and 6D's covered in dirt and still working. I've even taken a rebel out in heavy wet snowfall for an hour and gotten it drenched and it worked fine.

The problem is people have the false assumption that weight is an indication of "quality", it isn't.


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // XF 60mm f2.4 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
flickr (external link) // Instagram (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Mike55
Goldmember
Avatar
4,206 posts
Likes: 7
Joined Jun 2007
Location: Chicago, Illinois
     
Jul 02, 2014 12:40 |  #35

dinanm3atl wrote in post #17007147 (external link)
This is my potential hold up. How much is actually there in improvement? Most are just saying "It's better" but no review really brings forth any solid details.

I have both cameras right here, and I'm not afraid to say the 70D RAW files smoke the 7D RAW files. Jpeg results do not interest me.

Sharpness: 70D by 20%, if not more. Tremendous difference. 7D RAW files are like looking through a slab of margarine in comparison.
Color: 70D by a wide margin.
Focus: Far more consistent across a wide variety of lighting conditions.
Noise: Far superior on 70D at all ISO's. Banding is much better.

Overall, the 70D files are far more malleable.


That is an issue for me. Less build quality. I hated the 60D but if I can get something better I can deal with some problems. But where I shoot I need build quality. The tilt/rotate screen is a gimmic in my world. A gimmic I'd rather not have. And the rear dial/button/whatever they call it sucks I think. Not sure why they took their standard layout from almost every camera and changed it.

Build quality doesn't matter much if the sensor delivers noisy, dull RAW files. I shoot in wilderness conditions. Last winter, I was in -40 (without wind chill) temps in Montana along the Rocky Mountain Front. My 6D did fine along with the 7D (although the 7D refused to focus consistently with the same lens combo). Years of shooting the wilderness has taught me that while build is nice, image quality and focus consistency trumps all.

The 70D is not built as tough as the 7D, but it's no slouch, either.

The flip out screen is great in video mode. Also, you can zoom to 100% with your fingers on the touchscreen to check sharpness and skim photos.

I consider the 70D a significant upgrade to the 7D.


6D | 70D | 24-105 L IS | 17-40 L | 300 F4 L IS | 50 1.8 II | 1.4x II | LR5 | HV30 | bug spray | wilderness
Gallatin National Forest, Montana (external link)/Lassen Volcanic NP Campgrounds (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
dinanm3atl
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
Avatar
3,120 posts
Likes: 106
Joined Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
     
Jul 02, 2014 12:52 |  #36

Thanks. Sounds like a rental is in order. Run it with my 500mm and 70-200 and see results.


Halston - MotorSports Photographer
1Dx - 1Dx - A7r - 400L f/2.8 - 70-200L f/2.8 - 24-105L f/4 - 17-40L f/4 - 50 f/1.4 - 8mm f/3.5 Fisheye - 1.4x TC - 2x TC
Photography Site (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
GregDunn
Goldmember
Avatar
1,287 posts
Likes: 127
Joined Mar 2013
Location: Indiana
     
Jul 02, 2014 19:23 |  #37

dinanm3atl wrote in post #17007147 (external link)
This is my potential hold up. How much is actually there in improvement? Most are just saying "It's better" but no review really brings forth any solid details.

There isn't much, other than the increased number of pixels on target. The difference between a poor lens and a quality one is much greater than the difference between sensors these days. Don't be fooled into thinking that just because a sensor is newer and has some whiz-bang new technology it's going to make a noticeable difference in image quality.

YOU have to understand the camera and be willing to post-process the images if you want the best quality - 7D images do require some post-sharpening to look their best, and depending on the lens, perhaps other tweaks in contrast or saturation. Nothing wrong with the camera, just a difference in how the raw files come out of the camera.

I have been wringing out my 5D3, and I'm sure I haven't mastered it yet - but last night I swapped a Canon 24-70 between it and the 7D (both carefully MFA for focus), and the 7D clearly had the sharper and more saturated images after processing. Does that mean the 7D has a better sensor than the 5D3? Of course not. It means my post-processing favors the 7D at this point. Mind you, the images were excellent, but I'm sure I can do better.

Put the best lens you can afford on any current camera, learn to exploit its behavior and you will probably get more for your money than pursuing the body-of-the-month.


Canon 1Dx | 5D3 | 7D2 | 6D | 70-200L f/2.8IS | 70-200L f/4 | 24-70L f/2.8 | 24-105L f/4IS | 100-400L f/4.5-5.6IS | 17-55 f/2.8IS | 50 f/1.8 | 28-105 f/3.5-4.5 | 4x Godox AD360

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
EverydayGetaway
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
10,420 posts
Gallery: 7 photos
Likes: 3355
Joined Oct 2012
Location: Bowie, MD
     
Jul 02, 2014 21:19 |  #38

GregDunn wrote in post #17008200 (external link)
There isn't much, other than the increased number of pixels on target. The difference between a poor lens and a quality one is much greater than the difference between sensors these days. Don't be fooled into thinking that just because a sensor is newer and has some whiz-bang new technology it's going to make a noticeable difference in image quality.

YOU have to understand the camera and be willing to post-process the images if you want the best quality - 7D images do require some post-sharpening to look their best, and depending on the lens, perhaps other tweaks in contrast or saturation. Nothing wrong with the camera, just a difference in how the raw files come out of the camera.

I have been wringing out my 5D3, and I'm sure I haven't mastered it yet - but last night I swapped a Canon 24-70 between it and the 7D (both carefully MFA for focus), and the 7D clearly had the sharper and more saturated images after processing. Does that mean the 7D has a better sensor than the 5D3? Of course not. It means my post-processing favors the 7D at this point. Mind you, the images were excellent, but I'm sure I can do better.

Put the best lens you can afford on any current camera, learn to exploit its behavior and you will probably get more for your money than pursuing the body-of-the-month.

You just said the reason new bodies are still attractive though... sure, you can get good detail out of 7D images, but it takes a lot of work. In my experience the newer bodies require a lot less PP work to get great files from. Even the jump from my T2i to EOS M was noticeable, the RAWs were easier to work with from the M.

The shots I've seen in the high ISO threads from the 70D are very good and far better than anything I could get from my T2i or EOS M. There's a lot more to high ISO performance than just luminance and color noise, from what I've seen the 70D files are easily more detailed and accurate for color than those from the 7D.


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // XF 60mm f2.4 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
flickr (external link) // Instagram (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
richp
Member
55 posts
Joined Oct 2004
     
Jul 02, 2014 23:37 |  #39

I always kind of scratch my head about how a swivel screen is a deal breaker. It's not like it has to be used. There are plenty of reasons to like or dislike a camera, but that one always puzzles me. My new car has a CD player in it even though I only ever use my iPhone for music. I wouldn't rule out a car just because it has a CD player in it. To each his own I guess...


Canon 60D | Canon 15-85 | Tamron 70-200 f2.8 VC| Canon 50 f1.8 | 420EX

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Mike55
Goldmember
Avatar
4,206 posts
Likes: 7
Joined Jun 2007
Location: Chicago, Illinois
     
Jul 03, 2014 08:08 |  #40

GregDunn wrote in post #17008200 (external link)
I have been wringing out my 5D3, and I'm sure I haven't mastered it yet - but last night I swapped a Canon 24-70 between it and the 7D (both carefully MFA for focus), and the 7D clearly had the sharper and more saturated images after processing.


There is something very wrong with your 5D3 if the 7D raw files look better.


6D | 70D | 24-105 L IS | 17-40 L | 300 F4 L IS | 50 1.8 II | 1.4x II | LR5 | HV30 | bug spray | wilderness
Gallatin National Forest, Montana (external link)/Lassen Volcanic NP Campgrounds (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
PrinceAbubu
Senior Member
397 posts
Likes: 5
Joined Sep 2009
     
Jul 03, 2014 19:56 |  #41

I watched this topic before pulling the trigger on the 6d.

I have used a 7d before and was going to this until everyone says 70d. so i tested the 7d and 70D as a shop last nigh. both autofocusing where lightning fast and really what i was looking for. 70d somehow just feels better (milli-milli seconds quicker) than the 7d. feels snappier i guess is the term. But the 7d build feels more high end. 7D is also a bit expensive for a 5yr old body. 70d articulating screen seems plasticky.

But when i touched the 6D.. just felt like heaven hahaha! my two cents worth


Canon 6D | 17-40 F4 L | 70-200 F2.8 L | 50 1.4 | | 430EX II Flash | Olympus OM-D E-M10 14-42mm kit lens | Sony A5000 with 16-50mm kit | Velbon Sherpa 600R | Manfrotto Monopod 790B | Naneu Pro urbangear U30 |Lowe Pro Flipside 200 | Toploader pro 75AW | wish list Fujifilm XT1 with 35mm f2 | (goneski) 1DsMk1, 450D with 18-200mm, 40mm stm

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
DriveHard
Mostly Lurking
13 posts
Joined Apr 2014
     
Jul 07, 2014 07:38 |  #42

The AF on the 70d in low light when their is no direct source of light to focus on, struggles. In a trip of a few hundred pics only a few do I have to manual focus, sometimes the lighting was so bad, I couldn't, so hard to blame the camera.


70D | Sigma 24-105mm F4 DG OS HSM Art | EF-S 10-18mm F/4.5-5.6 IS STM | EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM | EF 50mm f/1.8 II | Yongnuo YN568EX TTL

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Mike55
Goldmember
Avatar
4,206 posts
Likes: 7
Joined Jun 2007
Location: Chicago, Illinois
     
Jul 07, 2014 10:35 |  #43

I just wanted to chime in here concerning my new 70D. I ordered mine from Amazon two weeks ago and it is flawless.

The sharpness, noise handling, and color is the best I've seen in a crop RAW file. Much, much sharper than 7D. Focus seems to be superior, too.

Again, this was ordered via Amazon U.S., sold by Amazon,. Maybe they have a good batch.


6D | 70D | 24-105 L IS | 17-40 L | 300 F4 L IS | 50 1.8 II | 1.4x II | LR5 | HV30 | bug spray | wilderness
Gallatin National Forest, Montana (external link)/Lassen Volcanic NP Campgrounds (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Scoobert
Goldmember
1,149 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 208
Joined Feb 2013
Location: Iowa
     
Jul 07, 2014 12:25 |  #44

DriveHard wrote in post #17016209 (external link)
The AF on the 70d in low light when their is no direct source of light to focus on, struggles. In a trip of a few hundred pics only a few do I have to manual focus, sometimes the lighting was so bad, I couldn't, so hard to blame the camera.

Maybe set a trigger or flash up top to use the focus assist beam on?




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
GregDunn
Goldmember
Avatar
1,287 posts
Likes: 127
Joined Mar 2013
Location: Indiana
     
Jul 07, 2014 19:26 |  #45

Mike55 wrote in post #17009075 (external link)
There is something very wrong with your 5D3 if the 7D raw files look better.

No, when you have sufficient exposure on the sensor and more pixels on target with the 7D, it's not at all surprising. The 7D sensor is quite a bit more densely populated (pixel pitch 4.3 vs. 6.25 microns) so the data / unit area is about 10% better than the 5D3. With the same lens on each, there will be more resolution in the 7D images since the subject will be larger in the frame. If you don't underexpose, the 7D will give quite a good account of itself.

I use the 7D where I have control over the lighting (hence, no need to lift the shadows) and the results are comparable. In some cases, the 7D does look a little better because when using an EF lens, the loss of quality at the edges is notably less.

If you fill the 5D3 frame with your subject (which means a longer focal length), or are forced to underexpose your images, you're handicapping the 7D. These are situations where I do use the 5D3, and it does a great job.

For those who are worried about more post-processing effort on the 7D: I don't see that much extra work is needed, but if you use Lightroom or Photoshop, build an action to handle it on import and the added time required is negligible.


Canon 1Dx | 5D3 | 7D2 | 6D | 70-200L f/2.8IS | 70-200L f/4 | 24-70L f/2.8 | 24-105L f/4IS | 100-400L f/4.5-5.6IS | 17-55 f/2.8IS | 50 f/1.8 | 28-105 f/3.5-4.5 | 4x Godox AD360

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

11,047 views & 0 likes for this thread
7D versus 70D - AF Focus System Differences | ISO Performance | IQ
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Ribosio80
644 guests, 334 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.