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FORUMS Photo Sharing & Visual Enjoyment Sports 
Thread started 23 Jul 2013 (Tuesday) 22:21
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Scooby-Bullet
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Jul 01, 2014 13:50 as a reply to  @ post 16910767 |  #121

Freestyle BMX (from the Goodwood Festival of Speed action arena)


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Biffbradford
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Jul 01, 2014 14:59 |  #122

TooManyShots wrote in post #16996239 (external link)
Seriously, you can actually pay bills shooting spec? When I was really into shooting spec (cycling) and even with supports from my local race organizers, I could barely make over $100 per race, selling digital downloads and some prints. My prices were not high but my sales weren't a lot either. After couple of years, most of my clients have photos of themselves already. Since I don't travel far to shoot, I would always shoot at the same race locations. That's why I stop shooting. I do few races now just for the fun of it.

What sells? Depends. If the shots are good, different, and can convey more than they are representing, they will sell. I sold plenty of panning shots. However, when the subject is only a single rider, it is good idea to shoot closer and to crop tighter.

Static looking shots? I only shoot like that when capturing the environment. Like this shot here:

Otherwise, I would avoid them because most newer photogs shooting bike races tend to think that they need 1/1000s shutter speed to freeze everything...hehehhe :) And they don't track their subjects!!!! I see plenty of those.

Shooting spec. for $ is just dead. When you've got one or two guys dumping a card full of photos on FB with the the horizon off by 30 degrees (I mean like 100's of shots with the horizon off 30 degrees), yet they still get the "GREAT PHOTO!" compliment, there is just no need for solid shots anymore. There's no 'art' in cycling photography anymore. If you get a closeup of a rider, they stick their tongue out and give your the devil horns. WFT? Obviously, they don't want a good shot of themselves riding. I guess it's just the way the culture is these days, it's too easy to take crappy photos that people think a good one is just a matter of luck. Podium photos are not taken with flash and are so shadowy and under exposed you can't see the rider's faces. Such a shame to see crappy photos passing for acceptable. I've shot 100s of races in the past, but have had enough, and so have SO many other folks who have shot bicycle races. It's not worth the effort. Now I try to shoot the 'non-profit' mud runs for organizations, because Tah Dah! that's where the profit is these days. ;)


My pictures: John Wilke Photography (external link), Flikr (external link) , Facebook (external link), Fine Arts America (external link), Canon 1D MkII N, 1D MkIII, various Canon and Tokina lenses. :D

  
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TooManyShots
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Jul 02, 2014 14:55 |  #123
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Biffbradford wrote in post #17005668 (external link)
Shooting spec. for $ is just dead. When you've got one or two guys dumping a card full of photos on FB with the the horizon off by 30 degrees (I mean like 100's of shots with the horizon off 30 degrees), yet they still get the "GREAT PHOTO!" compliment, there is just no need for solid shots anymore. There's no 'art' in cycling photography anymore. If you get a closeup of a rider, they stick their tongue out and give your the devil horns. WFT? Obviously, they don't want a good shot of themselves riding. I guess it's just the way the culture is these days, it's too easy to take crappy photos that people think a good one is just a matter of luck. Podium photos are not taken with flash and are so shadowy and under exposed you can't see the rider's faces. Such a shame to see crappy photos passing for acceptable. I've shot 100s of races in the past, but have had enough, and so have SO many other folks who have shot bicycle races. It's not worth the effort. Now I try to shoot the 'non-profit' mud runs for organizations, because Tah Dah! that's where the profit is these days. ;)


The thing scared me now is the enormous amount of time and effort in the post editing. I didn't know how I managed it in the past. I guess I was really into it. You go through like 900 shots. After culling, you are down to 200 shots. Now, in those 200 shots, you have mixed fields of riders. Somehow, you have to separate them in their own fields. With the NYC racing format, it isn't that hard to separate them and it helps if you know the riders. But the time and effort to check and double check each of the 200 shots are insane. Batch processing and manually rechecking and editing them all 200 shots would usually take 1 to 2 days. You would develop the eyes for color balancing and whether or not you can batch process all the shots using the same editing format....because each race corner and location has their own different lighting condition..:) You can only batch process all the shots if they are shot under the same or similar lighting condition. I don't expect my photography would take me far but it would be nice to shoot something else without all that labor intensive post editing.


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LincsRP
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Jul 02, 2014 16:58 |  #124

TooManyShots wrote in post #17007709 (external link)
The thing scared me now is the enormous amount of time and effort in the post editing. I didn't know how I managed it in the past. I guess I was really into it. You go through like 900 shots. After culling, you are down to 200 shots. Now, in those 200 shots, you have mixed fields of riders. Somehow, you have to separate them in their own fields. With the NYC racing format, it isn't that hard to separate them and it helps if you know the riders. But the time and effort to check and double check each of the 200 shots are insane. Batch processing and manually rechecking and editing them all 200 shots would usually take 1 to 2 days. You would develop the eyes for color balancing and whether or not you can batch process all the shots using the same editing format....because each race corner and location has their own different lighting condition..:) You can only batch process all the shots if they are shot under the same or similar lighting condition. I don't expect my photography would take me far but it would be nice to shoot something else without all that labor intensive post editing.

Presumably raw?

I only shoot jpeg for these events. AWB, aperture priority. Camera set on 'S' for the smallest file with minimal compression. Give 3-4mb files which fly through the system.

900 a night is something I'm happy with - all done within 20-30 mins or therabouts. Shot 300 tonight at a British Cycling training session and they're ready to go up. Got home at 21.30 the images were ready at 22.00hrs. Only problem I have at the moment is I have 42,000 images on my site and the software is **** somewhat with a technical glitch. :cry:


Steve
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TooManyShots
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Jul 02, 2014 19:02 |  #125
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LincsRP wrote in post #17007964 (external link)
Presumably raw?

I only shoot jpeg for these events. AWB, aperture priority. Camera set on 'S' for the smallest file with minimal compression. Give 3-4mb files which fly through the system.

900 a night is something I'm happy with - all done within 20-30 mins or therabouts. Shot 300 tonight at a British Cycling training session and they're ready to go up. Got home at 21.30 the images were ready at 22.00hrs. Only problem I have at the moment is I have 42,000 images on my site and the software is **** somewhat with a technical glitch. :cry:


It has to be raw because I have my editing style. You can tell in my shots. Majority of my racing shots are taken early in the morning 6:30 am and I have to use iso 3200 for 60% of the shots. I had a 1dmarkIII back then. All these high ISO shots needed special NR. It was labor intensive, editing part.


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Biffbradford
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Jul 02, 2014 21:09 |  #126

I did a lot of batching. Noise reduction if necessary, renaming, and backing them up as soon as I got home. I also used Photoshop and got pretty fast at setting up hot keys such as F7 to up the brightness 1/2 stop for example or F6 to bring up the shadows. Then I could open a photo do: F7, F7, F6, save ... next, and have them uploading as I edited. There were times, however, when I spent 5 or 6 hours working on an all day shoot. Come home with 3,000 photos and oh Lord, let the fun begin. All part of the learning curve, never again. :D FWIW, here's (external link) the mud run shots I got over the weekend. I shot with a 1DMkIIn and a 135L (prime). A zoom would have been the ticket. Live and learn.


My pictures: John Wilke Photography (external link), Flikr (external link) , Facebook (external link), Fine Arts America (external link), Canon 1D MkII N, 1D MkIII, various Canon and Tokina lenses. :D

  
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LincsRP
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Jul 04, 2014 06:45 |  #127

TooManyShots wrote in post #17008162 (external link)
It has to be raw because I have my editing style. You can tell in my shots. Majority of my racing shots are taken early in the morning 6:30 am and I have to use iso 3200 for 60% of the shots. I had a 1dmarkIII back then. All these high ISO shots needed special NR. It was labor intensive, editing part.

Don't take offence at this observation but, I do feel the fun of shooting sports is tainted by the post processing many feel they have to do. I have been shooting sports since 2003 digitally and (my view) continue to sell because I 'was there' not necessarily because I'm good or whatever at PP or indeed taking the actual shots.

There's a point I believe, a point of cutoff I suppose, where you enjoy something but you also have to have a life with the Family or friends. I still have to check myself from filling the diary with every sporting event reachable by road. I'm not going to the Tour De France which starts tomorrow barely 80 miles from where I'm sitting because you know what? The TV companies will do a wonderful job from where I'm sitting and no-one is going to buy from me anyway so it's a waste of time going photographically speaking for me.

Not having any galleries that go back more than a year also prompts folk to buy as soon as they see stuff disappearing they change their mind about whether to buy current images.

I smile when a lot of folk are incredulous at professionals shooting jpegs but, that's where the money went. You mention noise reduction at 3200iso. I leave it to the camera because it's better at it than I am. That's not to say I couldn't find a better method but then that takes time as you quite rightly comment on. 25,000 images on a Bank Holiday weekend would freak out most raw shooters but, that's what my friends are doing at the horse shows, the motor racing circuits and no doubt tomorrow at the start of the Tour.

So,for any of you that have given up on shooting cyclists because of the PP work etc would you rethink and shoot jpegs to promote our wonderful sport with your, quite obvious, talent? It would be great to swamp the market with top quality shots and put some of the mediocre stuff to shame :D


Steve
www.lincsracephotos.co​.uk (external link)

  
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Mister ­ Scott
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Jul 04, 2014 13:03 |  #128

Oulton Park 17 June 2014

IMAGE: https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3912/14573249345_402286f33e_o.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/ocMH​iK  (external link) Oulton Park 17June2014 (external link) by Routerer (external link), on Flickr



  
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Mister ­ Scott
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Jul 04, 2014 13:06 |  #129

IMAGE: https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3917/14386572930_9b6d2e6a56_o.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/nVhW​US  (external link) Oulton Park 17June2014 (external link) by Routerer (external link), on Flickr



  
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Mister ­ Scott
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Jul 04, 2014 13:09 |  #130

IMAGE: https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2913/14571517704_cc6d1cfef3_o.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/ocCQ​xS  (external link) Oulton Park 17June2014 (external link) by Routerer (external link), on Flickr



  
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Mister ­ Scott
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Jul 04, 2014 13:10 |  #131

IMAGE: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5509/14386641389_28ede6b342_o.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/nVii​gc  (external link) Oulton Park 17June2014 (external link) by Routerer (external link), on Flickr



  
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Biffbradford
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Jul 06, 2014 06:06 |  #132

LincsRP wrote in post #17010903 (external link)
Don't take offence at this observation but, I do feel the fun of shooting sports is tainted by the post processing many feel they have to do. I have been shooting sports since 2003 digitally and (my view) continue to sell because I 'was there' not necessarily because I'm good or whatever at PP or indeed taking the actual shots.

There's a point I believe, a point of cutoff I suppose, where you enjoy something but you also have to have a life with the Family or friends. I still have to check myself from filling the diary with every sporting event reachable by road. I'm not going to the Tour De France which starts tomorrow barely 80 miles from where I'm sitting because you know what? The TV companies will do a wonderful job from where I'm sitting and no-one is going to buy from me anyway so it's a waste of time going photographically speaking for me.

Not having any galleries that go back more than a year also prompts folk to buy as soon as they see stuff disappearing they change their mind about whether to buy current images.

I smile when a lot of folk are incredulous at professionals shooting jpegs but, that's where the money went. You mention noise reduction at 3200iso. I leave it to the camera because it's better at it than I am. That's not to say I couldn't find a better method but then that takes time as you quite rightly comment on.
25,000 images on a Bank Holiday weekend would freak out most raw shooters but, that's what my friends are doing at the horse shows, the motor racing circuits and no doubt tomorrow at the start of the Tour.

So,for any of you that have given up on shooting cyclists because of the PP work etc would you rethink and shoot jpegs to promote our wonderful sport with your, quite obvious, talent? It would be great to swamp the market with top quality shots and put some of the mediocre stuff to shame :D

I wouldn't care if I shot 25,000 images if I made enough money to easily pay for a new shutter if I blew one out. For me, it's not the post processing that's driven me out of the game, it's just NO sales. My site had 1/4 million views, at the end, if I sold 5 images a month, that was good. Yet photos with my watermark emblazoned right across dead center kept appearing on social media, so they were good enough to steal but not worth a couple bux to support my talent and effort. It was just time to pull the plug. I'd get emails stating: " I can't figure out how to get the full rez size of this image." So, I had a page made up describing exactly where to click to buy and the whole process. "Oh, I have to BUY it?" That came from riders, custom bike builders, teams, etc. If I see nice photos on FB, with no photo credit given, I'll call 'em on it. Shame on the photographer for not watermarking them, but I won't let people toss those images around without saying where they found 'em.

On the flip side, I was looking for an audio recording of a Chipmunk 'clucking' (not 'chirping'.) 99 cents was too rich for me just to hear it, so I kept looking until I found some free ones to compare to the recording I made (external link). What goes around, comes around. ~:^)


My pictures: John Wilke Photography (external link), Flikr (external link) , Facebook (external link), Fine Arts America (external link), Canon 1D MkII N, 1D MkIII, various Canon and Tokina lenses. :D

  
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crbinson
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Jul 14, 2014 19:30 |  #133

Just stumbled across this thread so was compelled to post a few of my favorite shots...

IMAGE: https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8317/8062241073_268c73a6f0_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/dhr6​or  (external link)

IMAGE: https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8451/8062242413_5c7636b1d4_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/dhr6​Mx  (external link)

IMAGE: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7359/10437552935_aea319d47a_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/gUkb​Re  (external link)

My Flickr (external link) | My Gear List

  
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Klystron
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Jul 22, 2014 12:25 as a reply to  @ crbinson's post |  #134

From a local club time trial.

IMAGE: http://sheridan.zenfolio.com/img/s12/v179/p786488529-4.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://sheridan.zenfol​io.com/mad_10m_tt_1507​14/e2ee0dcd1  (external link)

IMAGE: http://sheridan.zenfolio.com/img/s5/v131/p629841319-4.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://sheridan.zenfol​io.com/mad_10m_tt_1507​14/e258a9da7  (external link)

IMAGE: http://sheridan.zenfolio.com/img/s6/v148/p643590365-4.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://sheridan.zenfol​io.com/mad_10m_tt_1507​14/e265c68dd  (external link)

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LincsRP
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Jul 23, 2014 06:43 as a reply to  @ Klystron's post |  #135

I've never seen anyone do a time trial on a penny farthing. Recumbents and stuff but that is quite unique!


Steve
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