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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk 
Thread started 23 Nov 2013 (Saturday) 08:53
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Getting kicked off our own sideline.

 
Sibil
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Jan 12, 2014 12:51 as a reply to  @ post 16598023 |  #61

Just a side note; I have been shooting recreational (non-competitive) basketball and soccer for years, since my kids play these sports. The real challenge for me has been shooting the less athletic kids and make them look good. These kids never get the lens of a pro/semi-pro shooter, even the other PWAC, pointed at them. Although I seldom know these kids or their parents, I bust my chops trying damn hard to find a good shot of them, and share the pics with the parents. The gratitude afterwards is enough reward for me. Not to mention; the challenge from shooting perspective is also very inviting, sometimes taking an entire game to get one or two shots.




  
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PhotoGeek
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Jan 14, 2014 09:13 |  #62

CoPhotoGuy wrote in post #16596652 (external link)
Well what if the other photographer takes better photos than you two DWAC's?

I see no sample of quality here.

Maybe you do take good photos but just being devils advocate. If the league wants photos from a certain photographer and that photographer doesn't want other people getting in his/her way, then they may have the right to prevent you from going out there.

More often it's the other way around. The "pros" that I see at many high school and lower sporting events don't do anything more than snapshots. I've seen stuff for sale at very expensive club volleyball tournaments that would be deleted off my camera long before I ever downloaded to my computer.

The DWACs at our high school's games do some pretty high level stuff.


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calvin3
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Jan 17, 2014 10:28 |  #63

Wow this thread is still going? Great perspective from both sides.

I have said it my other posts my photos are far from anything that you guys post but I love doing it and I am happy that I can make parents happy with my photos. With that being said here is a link to my Facebook page. I am just a dad with a rebel and a big lens.

http://m.facebook.com …=public&__user=​1261407073 (external link)


Flickr (external link) - Facebook (external link)

  
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Mike ­ R
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Jan 26, 2014 08:41 |  #64

calvin3 wrote in post #16613058 (external link)
Wow this thread is still going? Great perspective from both sides.

I have said it my other posts my photos are far from anything that you guys post but I love doing it and I am happy that I can make parents happy with my photos. With that being said here is a link to my Facebook page. I am just a dad with a rebel and a big lens.

http://m.facebook.com …=public&__user=​1261407073 (external link)

As long as you enjoy it, and the parents appreciate what you do, keep at it, but if the team hires a pro, you may be restricted to shooting from the stands. If the team considers you their "team photographer" you will be allowed to shoot from the sidelines. Many times, I'm next to the schools official yearbook photographer. He knows we're there for different reasons. He's better at posing for team shots, so he sets them up and we both shoot the team. The man has been a photographer since the Korean War and still has the passion. The way he interacts with the kids is incredible. I've learned a lot form him.


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flyingwolf
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Aug 05, 2014 18:16 |  #65

chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
I realize that I'm new around here, but this is something I feel strongly about, so here goes. And by the way, the "pro's" are not going to like this, but due to the pompousness of some of the "pro's" in this thread I feel compelled to tell my view. And if you look at my pictures to judge me, I'll tell you right now, I'm not that good. This is a hobby that I'm trying to get better at. That's why I'm here, on this forum.

Which is why you shouldn't be on the sidelines taking pictures and getting in the way of the professional. Just saying.

chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
Coming from a parents perspective, I don't think a "pro" quite understands what my needs are. Not every kid on those teams are going to be the "star" athlete who always has the ball. Thus the "non-star" athletes often times don't even get photographed by the "pro's" who are only looking to make a buck(ok, several bucks) off the star shots. The "pro's" don't know who's been getting photographed all season and who has had no photographs, or not played until one certain event and then the "pro" still misses his/her shot. This one simple fact is one of the biggest reasons I got started.

Many times, the pro, like myself, are actually out there from 7am to 8pm, have rosters of the kids playing, have NPR list (lists for the number of plays each player has had, usually regulated to a minimum number of plays) and lists of kids which may need creative shots to get some good action ones. We are usually a parent of one of the kids and are at each practice, know the strengths and weaknesses of each kid, and know the best places to be. We are usually volunteering our time, talent, equipment and pictures to the league for free. The only compensation is usually by the parents paying for pictures, then a percentage of those sales usually also goes back to the league.

chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
And what about the parents shooting movies with the pro or prosumer DSLR's? They can't break them out either because a "pro" might feel threatened? Crazy!

I seriously doubt any pros feel threatened, they are just annoyed with parents who think that their 12 hours a day, plus 30 hours of editing and culling are worth nothing because the parent put their prosumer camera on greenbox and took a few snapshots at high noon with their flash on.

chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
This brings out the next problem, if the "pro's" made the photo's more affordable then they wouldn't be going out of business.

What would you consider affordable for an 8x10? Do you know why Wal-Mart can charge 3.50 for an 8x10? Because they can sell a few million a day.

chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
Apparently not many of the "pro's" chiming in on this thread have ever been in a tight place with their finances. Just because "you, the pro" think the price is fair doesn't mean it is.

Are you kidding? You have to be kidding here?

chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
On my salary, I barely make the bottom end of of the middle class in the US and with everyone else at these events raping the parents, the "paid only" photo's are just ridiculous.

So 10 bucks for that 8x10 that took an hour to retouch, host, used thousands in equipment, hundreds a year in professional services costs, insurance riders and professional grade paper that won't fade to white in 2 years is raping the parents. Take all the pictures you want from the stands, have fun, just stay off the sideline if you don't know what you are doing. Here is an even better idea, watch your kids game, participate, cheer them on, and then buy a nice photo of a good play which will help support the league.

chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
On average, between the cost of equipment fee's, coaching fee's, practice facility fee's, uniform fee's, gasoline, hotels, eating out, t-shirts, event entry fee's, parking fee's, shuttle fee's, gate fee's and the fact that most events don't even let parents bring a cooler with sandwiches in it, my costs per weekend is around $800.

So you can afford 3200 a month on sports, yet consider yourself at the bottom end of the middle class. I don't think you know what this means.

chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
I don't want just one lousy picture of my kid from that weekend and neither does my kid.

If the picture is lousy why would you buy it? Do you think its fine for each child to have a parent on the sidelines taking pictures? So 22 kids, 22 parents, 3 to 4 coaches, a team mom, an official and 3 to 4 refs.
Who is in the stands watching this again?

chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
I would think more in the neighborhood of 20 pictures as a minimum. And you think $13 per picture is fair? $260 for pictures that the "pro" thinks are good?

It honestly sounds to me like you are jaded that your not able to consider yourself pro. You keep putting pro in quotes. And yes 13 per picture is fair. If you want 20 then I am willing to bet there is a package you can buy. More to the point, are you actually going to hang up 20 pictures form each game of your kid? Or will you realistically hang up one of maybe each of the games, maximum?

chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
Not to mention, its more than likely a "pro" wouldn't even have 20 pictures of most kids.

You again show your disdain and ignorance, a pro would absolutely be ensuring that he has a large number of images of each child, it makes fiscal sense to make at least a few images available of each child,otherwise the parents won't buy them.

chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
You want to add 25% to my already outrageous weekend costs?

No, I want to cover my hard costs, my CODB and be able to give back to the league that my children are on. No one is forcing you to buy an image, take your images from the stands and enjoy them.


chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
You're not shooting with film any more, there is no loss for taking pictures any more, you're not wasting film.

Yea, digital cameras have infinite lifespans, 3k shutter clicks a weekend won't bother it at all.

chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
Sure, you would develop them. You'd probably use a preset and spend about 2 seconds on each picture.

If that's the attention you give your images before publishing then perhaps this explains why you don't consider yourself good anymore. Conversely a pro is able to get the shot in camera first time, so post processing time is kept to a minimum. That's the difference between a pro and a PWAC.

chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
Whats the percentage of markup there? REALLY? You wonder why you're not wanted at these sort of events any more?

A lot less than it should be. You pay a plumber 100 bucks an hour for turning a wrench and getting his hands wet, but you won't pay a photographer 10 bucks for 20 hours of work and hundreds of hours of education and experience.

chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
Now on the other hand, if you want to charge me $1 per picture with something like a minimum of 20 pictures, this may be ok.

And some photographers may do this, but that's less than my hard cost for the paper and shipping, I would literally lose money on each 8x10 picture. I could print the files at Wal-Mart, then you would complain about them being wal-mart prints. So make up your mind.

chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
However, you better be sure to hire a whole truckload of photographers for each game on each field, court, stage or whatever platform their may be for my kids' event. This obviously isn't feasible so relax about parents taking picture's.

Again, no one cares about parents taking pictures, they care when parents are on the field taking pictures.

chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
Most importantly, what about the kids? Have you forgotten the "magic" that those pictures bring to those kids, especially the ones who don't often get photographed? This is what it should all be about, the kids are the ones out there busting their asses and doing all the work. Do you realize, or have you forgotten, how great a good picture of a kid can make them feel about themselves? I've found it often times confidence inspiring for some of the kids I've photographed.

Nope, I haven't forgotten at all, that's why I volunteer 11 hours a day at the fields on game day, give the league all digital photos free of charge for promotional and editorial use, stay up until 3am Monday morning after a Sunday game making sure the images are ready before putting them on my website for parents to see Monday morning after going home and getting to sleep WAY before I do.

I also havent forgotten the ungratefulness of overhearing "he isn't exactly our type" by a catty group of parents because I don't make 200k a year and drive a bentley. Instead I make less a year than you spend on weekend sports, and I drive an old truck. But I scrimp and save each year to pay the 500 in fees needed to put my kids on the team, then I give freely of the one thing I have available to me, time and talent so that our team can fundraise without asking parents to go door to door, instead they just buy a few photos.


chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
So what happens when those kids come home with no memories from these events? Many of them quit and give up because they can't see how good they're really doing.

In my league it doesn't happen, at the end of year party I take any sales I have made and make a collage for each kid, if I don't make enough in sales, I take the price out of my own pocket, I am not reimbursed for this.

chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
It happened with my daughter, so don't think it doesn't happen. Also, think of the asshat parents who berate their kid because they make one bad play, but 50 great plays. These pictures show that kid they're doing amazing things. Without the pictures, all they have is the memory of their asshat parents telling them they're no good.

I am sorry your daughter has experienced that.

chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
I've also had several occasions where the parents and/or kids have come up to me and told me how much my pictures have helped them improve. Some of the high speed shots show something they were doing wrong with their pitching or batting for example. "Pro's" are not going to have that much coverage of my team, its just not possible.

Bull, I have this much and more coverage of each team I photograph, see above. You are projecting.

chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
If you're a "pro" and are threatened by an amateur or prosumer, then you need to think about changing your business strategies. If you can't take that much better of a picture than someone with no skill, then there is your problem.

I don't see where this has been said, what has been said is that in many cases parents will happily accept a blurry, high contrast iPhone photo for free rather than pay 10 bucks for an 8x10 that comes with a 100 year guarantee. Some people are simply bad at cost averaging.

chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
This is just like the strategy of Apple, dominate the market by force, not by skill or ability.

Apple currently holds less than 10% of the cell phone market, they got big by having a single offering and great advertising.

chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
Take the Google approach, if they like it they will pay for it.

Exactly, no one is forcing you to buy a photo, just telling you not to be on the field getting in front of the guy who is getting pro shots to help the league.

chrisnosleep wrote in post #16528213 (external link)
Bend over the people who know they're going to have to pay through the nose, like weddings, senior portraits and family portraits, not the kids busting their asses, possibly looking for their future.

How about you don't bend over anyone and instead charge what the market will bear.

I haven't commented in a while, but this just got my goat, I had to.


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Aug 05, 2014 18:18 |  #66

^^ beyond awesome


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JM ­ Photos
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Aug 05, 2014 18:28 |  #67

SeattleSpeedster wrote in post #17078494 (external link)
^^ beyond awesome

Haha, that is classic. I can't even complain that he brought back a thread over 6 months old. Probably took him that long to quote all of that...


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Aug 05, 2014 18:58 |  #68

flyingwolf

Excellent post with excellent points. Now bookmarked/subscribed to this one.


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flyingwolf
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Aug 05, 2014 20:10 |  #69

JM Photos wrote in post #17078509 (external link)
Haha, that is classic. I can't even complain that he brought back a thread over 6 months old. Probably took him that long to quote all of that...

FRIG! I didn't see the timestamp, I was just reading through.


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Aug 05, 2014 20:21 |  #70

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078726 (external link)
FRIG! I didn't see the timestamp, I was just reading through.

Like I said, can't even complain with a detailed response like that. Kudos!


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Aug 05, 2014 22:43 |  #71

Sweet, this thread is back. Now for the pwac response. Kick me off the sideline at your own peril. You won't be taking photos for long of my club. That being said. I have never interfered with a professional. I am respectful and when possible helpful..."watch for number 10 he can really elevate. Number 15's parents always buy the most photos etc.". In exchange if I'm doing something stupid I expect them to make a couple quick suggestions.

It's a big field. Plenty of room for everyone and I would never interrupt someone trying to make a living. If your pictures are better than mine I might buy one and $10 seems reasonable. Of course if all my pictures are better than yours...well you shouldn't be taking photos professionally anyway.




  
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Aug 05, 2014 22:46 |  #72

Luxx wrote in post #17079042 (external link)
Sweet, this thread is back. Now for the pwac response. Kick me off the sideline at your own peril. You won't be taking photos for long of my club. That being said. I have never interfered with a professional. I am respectful and when possible helpful..."watch for number 10 he can really elevate. Number 15's parents always buy the most photos etc.". In exchange if I'm doing something stupid I expect them to make a couple quick suggestions.

It's a big field. Plenty of room for everyone and I would never interrupt someone trying to make a living. If your pictures are better than mine I might buy one and $10 seems reasonable. Of course if all my pictures are better than yours...well you shouldn't be taking photos professionally anyway.

See, you're the parent I don't mind.

However in Pop Warner no one is on the field with the kids without a complete background check (that we have to pay for) and CPR training etc.

When a parent goes to the field and then stands directly on the sidelines with a camera when the pro knows there is a dotted line there for a reason, well, it gets annoying quickly.

Also, in my case, its my club too.


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chrisnosleep
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Aug 05, 2014 22:46 |  #73

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
Which is why you shouldn't be on the sidelines taking pictures and getting in the way of the professional. Just saying.

This is what you call professional? http://www.bestlittles​tudio.com/Unions (external link)

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
Many times, the pro, like myself, are actually out there from 7am to 8pm, have rosters of the kids playing, have NPR list (lists for the number of plays each player has had, usually regulated to a minimum number of plays) and lists of kids which may need creative shots to get some good action ones. We are usually a parent of one of the kids and are at each practice, know the strengths and weaknesses of each kid, and know the best places to be. We are usually volunteering our time, talent, equipment and pictures to the league for free. The only compensation is usually by the parents paying for pictures, then a percentage of those sales usually also goes back to the league.

Wait a minute, are you a "pro" or a "pwc"? You do understand there are other sports besides football, right? How can you be giving the pictures to the league for free, yet at the same time charging for them? This paragraph goes back and forth so many times, it makes no sense.

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
I seriously doubt any pros feel threatened, they are just annoyed with parents who think that their 12 hours a day, plus 30 hours of editing and culling are worth nothing because the parent put their prosumer camera on greenbox and took a few snapshots at high noon with their flash on.

Ok, now we're up to 12 hours a day from 11 hours the paragraph before. LOL. This is so hypocritical of you. Many of the daylight shots on your website are done using a flash as well. Did you read any of the comments on this thread about how threatened the "pro's" felt?

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
What would you consider affordable for an 8x10? Do you know why Wal-Mart can charge 3.50 for an 8x10? Because they can sell a few million a day.

I understand you're trying to put on a good show, but I already answered this.

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
Are you kidding? You have to be kidding here?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
So 10 bucks for that 8x10 that took an hour to retouch, host, used thousands in equipment, hundreds a year in professional services costs, insurance riders and professional grade paper that won't fade to white in 2 years is raping the parents. Take all the pictures you want from the stands, have fun, just stay off the sideline if you don't know what you are doing. Here is an even better idea, watch your kids game, participate, cheer them on, and then buy a nice photo of a good play which will help support the league.

Looking at your body of work, especially someone who considers themselves a "pro", I feel I've got a pretty good handle on "what I'm doing". And, yes, you're raping the parents of memories they could have had if you weren't there saying they couldn't take them. If you're talking football, I think its pretty obvious that all "pwc's" wouldn't be allowed on the field at the same time. Most area's I know of, you have to get the permission of the AD to get on the field. But you would know this because "you're a pro".

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
So you can afford 3200 a month on sports, yet consider yourself at the bottom end of the middle class. I don't think you know what this means.

I guess my childs future is more important to me? What do you want here, my tax statement?

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
If the picture is lousy why would you buy it? Do you think its fine for each child to have a parent on the sidelines taking pictures? So 22 kids, 22 parents, 3 to 4 coaches, a team mom, an official and 3 to 4 refs.
Who is in the stands watching this again?

I wouldn't buy it, how ignorant is that? Again, if you're talking football (lots of other sports out there you know), I would say it would be up to the AD to decide that as long as several different parents were allowed each week. You talk like this is overcrowding. Have you ever seen a college or pro football game? You do realize how big the field is?

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
It honestly sounds to me like you are jaded that your not able to consider yourself pro. You keep putting pro in quotes. And yes 13 per picture is fair. If you want 20 then I am willing to bet there is a package you can buy. More to the point, are you actually going to hang up 20 pictures form each game of your kid? Or will you realistically hang up one of maybe each of the games, maximum?

I do apologize for the quotes around "pro", but I'm not jaded by any means. I just feel like you should only consider yourself a "pro" when your body of work supports it. Not because your brothers friends sisters grandma paid you $50 for some pictures at a wedding. I was recently at a tournament where a "pro" was shooting and selling 8 x 10's for $20. He did a pretty decent job finding the right shot (one single shot per kid, and this is softball I'm talking about), but the images weren't focused at all. He was a nice guy and he did have several that were pro quality shots, but no way was every shot worth $20. And to answer your question about hanging each picture up, have you ever heard of scrapbooking or photo albums? Why wouldn't I want smaller photo's?

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
You again show your disdain and ignorance, a pro would absolutely be ensuring that he has a large number of images of each child, it makes fiscal sense to make at least a few images available of each child,otherwise the parents won't buy them.

Wow, can you be any more inflammatory? As I said above, the recent "pro" only had one single shot of each girl. That's a pretty obtuse statement of you. And how does that make me ignorant? Maybe you should go back and read the whole thread.

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
No, I want to cover my hard costs, my CODB and be able to give back to the league that my children are on. No one is forcing you to buy an image, take your images from the stands and enjoy them.

Again, "pro" or "pwc"? Which are you? Why should I have to stay in the stands when an inferior photog is cock blocking me? If the photog isn't invited by a majority, what's he doing there anyway? If no one wants him there, what's the deal? If he's not selling pictures, what's the point?

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
Yea, digital cameras have infinite lifespans, 3k shutter clicks a weekend won't bother it at all.

That should last you about a year, right? A 'REAL' "pro" should be able recoup that cost fairly quickly, if you're worried about it. Which, I don't understand why YOU even bring it up. If you're making money with each click, like a good "pro" photographer would be, why is this an issue?

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
If that's the attention you give your images before publishing then perhaps this explains why you don't consider yourself good anymore. Conversely a pro is able to get the shot in camera first time, so post processing time is kept to a minimum. That's the difference between a pro and a PWAC.

Didn't you just say you would spend an hour on each photo?

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
that took an hour to retouch

You sure do flip-flop around. You're questioning my statement and methods in the first sentence, then backing them up in the rest?

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
A lot less than it should be. You pay a plumber 100 bucks an hour for turning a wrench and getting his hands wet, but you won't pay a photographer 10 bucks for 20 hours of work and hundreds of hours of education and experience.

First, why would I pay a plumber for work that I can do myself? Second, you didn't spend 20 hours on every child you took pictures of. Third, you have no basis for any of this because you clearly have neither.

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
And some photographers may do this, but that's less than my hard cost for the paper and shipping, I would literally lose money on each 8x10 picture. I could print the files at Wal-Mart, then you would complain about them being wal-mart prints. So make up your mind.

Again, why does everything have to be about size with you? Ever heard of 4x6's and 5x7's? Not to mention simple digital rights to photo's? Are you sure you're a "pro"? The $1 was just an example you know?

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
Again, no one cares about parents taking pictures, they care when parents are on the field taking pictures.

Yes, they do, IF YOU READ THE WHOLE THREAD!

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
Nope, I haven't forgotten at all, that's why I volunteer 11 hours a day at the fields on game day, give the league all digital photos free of charge for promotional and editorial use, stay up until 3am Monday morning after a Sunday game making sure the images are ready before putting them on my website for parents to see Monday morning after going home and getting to sleep WAY before I do.

Its funny, I can tell you're looking for sympathy here, yet I do all of this AND work a full time job up to 70 hours a week. I'm sorry, I have no sympathy to hand out.

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
I also havent forgotten the ungratefulness of overhearing "he isn't exactly our type" by a catty group of parents because I don't make 200k a year and drive a bentley. Instead I make less a year than you spend on weekend sports, and I drive an old truck. But I scrimp and save each year to pay the 500 in fees needed to put my kids on the team, then I give freely of the one thing I have available to me, time and talent so that our team can fundraise without asking parents to go door to door, instead they just buy a few photos.

Sympathy again? Really? How much does this talent raise in funds, by the way?

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
In my league it doesn't happen, at the end of year party I take any sales I have made and make a collage for each kid, if I don't make enough in sales, I take the price out of my own pocket, I am not reimbursed for this.

So you make all these for each kid in the league huh? And for free? That's exactly what I've been saying I do, but you seem to think you need to bash me for it? Funny, that's what this argument is all about and what I've been arguing FOR. (Flip-flop-flip-flop)

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
I am sorry your daughter has experienced that.

Are you? You are a "pro" right? Weren't you fighting for the other side? Whats going on here?

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
Bull, I have this much and more coverage of each team I photograph, see above. You are projecting.

WTH? You take this personally like I was pointing you out in a line up. Stop being obtuse, the "pro's" I'm talking about are the only experience I have with "pro's". Yes, this is the way it happened. And its not just me with these complaints if you would just READ THE WHOLE THREAD!

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
I don't see where this has been said, what has been said is that in many cases parents will happily accept a blurry, high contrast iPhone photo for free rather than pay 10 bucks for an 8x10 that comes with a 100 year guarantee. Some people are simply bad at cost averaging.

Clearly, you have not read the whole thread. LOL. Now the price is down to $10? LOL.

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
Apple currently holds less than 10% of the cell phone market, they got big by having a single offering and great advertising.

OMG, you're really going to try to argue every single thing I wrote. Trust me, I know they don't dominate anything (other than theft of idea's), but they try to. Thus the word 'strategy'.

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
Exactly, no one is forcing you to buy a photo, just telling you not to be on the field getting in front of the guy who is getting pro shots to help the league.

To help the league? How is putting money in your pocket helping the league? And yes, you actually are forcing people to buy a photo if camera's were banned like was talked about earlier in the thread.

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
How about you don't bend over anyone and instead charge what the market will bear.

Yes! DING, DING, DING, DING!!! WINNER, WINNER, CHICKEN DINNER!!! Do this and don't ban pwc's and we'll be best bud's!

flyingwolf wrote in post #17078492 (external link)
I haven't commented in a while, but this just got my goat, I had to.

Judging by your previous posts, I can see you have a problem with slandering fellow photog's. Let me start by stating that I'm not very good at biting my tongue when I'm being directly attacked on a forum such as this and such as you have just done. But let me tell you, judging by your body of work(http://www.bestlittles​tudio.com/Unions (external link)), all I can do is chuckle and reiterate what I've already said. Did you even read this whole thread to understand what got my statements started?




  
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JM ­ Photos
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Aug 05, 2014 23:15 |  #74

I wouldn't call this a bash the amateur thread...as I recall, you started the thread to bash on a photographer who was hired that ultimately took your non-contract, non-profit opportunities away. I don't think you're really going to get much support when ranting about how a certain (or any) paid photographer took your place on the sidelines when you're just a parent with a camera. Cheers!


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chrisnosleep
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Aug 05, 2014 23:16 |  #75

JM Photos wrote in post #17079089 (external link)
I wouldn't call this a bash the amateur thread...as I recall, you started the thread to bash on a photographer who was hired that ultimately took your non-contract, non-profit opportunities away. I don't think you're really going to get much support when ranting about how a certain (or any) paid photographer took your place on the sidelines when you're just a parent with a camera. Cheers!

LOL, I didn't start this thread. Does anyone read through these before posting something?




  
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