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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 14 Jan 2014 (Tuesday) 07:48
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70D focus issue & blurred pictures

 
meaton
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Aug 06, 2014 08:35 |  #1186

Molybdo42 wrote in post #17079660 (external link)
Yeah I've seen youtube videos who show that setting up FoCal targets can be difficult if you don't have proper lightning. https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=ALDWPtYwZ6I (external link)
I would suggest you to do the calibration at night (to avoid lightning variations) and with several desk lamps (preferably incandescent bulbs).

For parallelism you should use a bare mirror (no surrounding plastic frame) laid flat against the target, adjust the tripod head in order to center the image of the lens barrel on the center focus point.

Also for the distance it's advised to use roughly 50 times the focal length, so for a 60mm, you'll need 3000 mm or 3 meters. But that depends on people, some prefer to do the calibration at their shooting distance.

From the values you gave me looks like you need to put something like 10 or 15 in the MFA values (don't remember which sign to use). For me that's abnormal and it could vary a lot depending on the distance you shoot at. If the lens worked flawlessly on your 600D, you should send the camera to Canon (the lens isn't necessary).
Unless you can prove to Canon that the camera has an issue (maybe by measuring the AF coverage, I'm still waiting for my camera so I don't know if it'll work) ; I would wait a few months for the repair centers to get maybe some sort of notice on how to fix the issue and on what to look for. Because up until now, on first try the repair center will only do some software adjust, and you had to send the camera a second time and even a third time to get it fixed. But it now looks like some people are seeing their camera either replaced or repaired (might depend on where you live) and apparently one repair center is getting at least twenty 70D per week (https://www.flickr.com …/72157639283256​254/page2/ (external link)). So maybe you wont have to wait too long.

Last thing : having great LiveView focus doesn't rule out a lens issue, because a lens could also need some MFA to perform well. The only way to rule out a lens issue would be to test it on several bodies, like you did with your 600D, so I think that in your case we can rule out a lens issue.

Thanks, strange thing is though that I just tried it again using area focus on every section starting with the middle and several single focus point mostly in a cross across the middle and up/down middle and got exactly the same results.

I also used MFA blindly to backfocus 10 and 20 and got the same results i.e. front focussing by the same amount. Nothing changed.

I am now lost, think I'll just get a refund and check out my options later. I can't justify going through all that effort to resolve what is so obviously a faulty piece of equipment. If it cost a tenner, I would bin it but not £850.

Thanks for your help anyway.




  
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Molybdo42
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Aug 06, 2014 09:02 |  #1187

meaton wrote in post #17079694 (external link)
Thanks, strange thing is though that I just tried it again using area focus on every section starting with the middle and several single focus point mostly in a cross across the middle and up/down middle and got exactly the same results.

I also used MFA blindly to backfocus 10 and 20 and got the same results i.e. front focussing by the same amount. Nothing changed.

I am now lost, think I'll just get a refund and check out my options later. I can't justify going through all that effort to resolve what is so obviously a faulty piece of equipment. If it cost a tenner, I would bin it but not £850.

Thanks for your help anyway.

Can you post a picture, with single center point focus ?




  
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meaton
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Aug 06, 2014 10:15 |  #1188

Molybdo42 wrote in post #17079749 (external link)
Can you post a picture, with single center point focus ?

I hope that I have sized them correctly. The first is AF and the second is LiveView. I had to take it outside the light is too dim so hopefully it will all be clear. Both were on a tripod at c45 degrees. I have cropped them so only the relevant parts are in view in a bid to save space but leave the in and out of focus areas clear.

I don't know how to save from DPP with the AF point in view so you will just have to trust me that the focus point for both is on the 'Focus here' line in the chart. :)


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electricme
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Aug 06, 2014 10:25 |  #1189

Having the Center Focus issue with my 70D! Thanks for all of the information, they are giving me a new one since I bought the extra warranty at Cardinal Camera. Hopefully this one is better. Supposedly newer manufacture date. When I get home I will post my comparison shots. Took conscecutive shots from tripod and my 50 f/1.4 USM in Live view and in VF on Auto Focus selecting the center point NOTICEABLY out of focus on the VF almost perfectly sharp in Live view.




  
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i-G12
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Aug 06, 2014 10:28 |  #1190

WOW.

Incredible that the consumer has to go to these lengths to see if his new $1200 camera is worth a ****. Pathetic.




  
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Molybdo42
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Aug 06, 2014 11:02 |  #1191

meaton wrote in post #17079882 (external link)
I hope that I have sized them correctly. The first is AF and the second is LiveView. I had to take it outside the light is too dim so hopefully it will all be clear. Both were on a tripod at c45 degrees. I have cropped them so only the relevant parts are in view in a bid to save space but leave the in and out of focus areas clear.

I don't know how to save from DPP with the AF point in view so you will just have to trust me that the focus point for both is on the 'Focus here' line in the chart. :)

I just need to check the position of surrounding AF points. To save the picture from DPP with focus box, you have to use the "snipping tool" in windows. Could you repost these pictures please ?
But from the picture I can see clearly the issue and would suggest to send the camera to Canon or ask for an exchange, you now know how to test for the issue. I hope that Canon has found a definitive fix for that issue on their side...

@i-G12 :
There are also manufacturing issues on 7000 € bodies...




  
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meaton
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Aug 06, 2014 11:14 |  #1192

Molybdo42 wrote in post #17079955 (external link)
I just need to check the position of surrounding AF points. To save the picture from DPP with focus box, you have to use the "snipping tool" in windows. Could you repost these pictures please ?
But from the picture I can see clearly the issue and would suggest to send the camera to Canon or ask for an exchange, you now know how to test for the issue. I hope that Canon has found a definitive fix for that issue on their side...

@i-G12 :
There are also manufacturing issues on 7000 € bodies...

OK here goes, you will be able to see which is which file by looking at them. Do you think this is the same issue this thread was started about? My biggest problem is that using MFA does not seem to make any difference to the AF or MF using focus confirmation either. I am totally confused.


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electricme
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Aug 06, 2014 11:40 |  #1193

i-G12 wrote in post #17079901 (external link)
WOW.

Incredible that the consumer has to go to these lengths to see if his new $1200 camera is worth a ****. Pathetic.


this




  
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Molybdo42
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Aug 06, 2014 12:42 |  #1194

meaton wrote in post #17079979 (external link)
OK here goes, you will be able to see which is which file by looking at them. Do you think this is the same issue this thread was started about? My biggest problem is that using MFA does not seem to make any difference to the AF or MF using focus confirmation either. I am totally confused.

OK I looked, the surrounding AF marks are well placed so there can't be any confusion, the camera should have focused on the black strip. For the Liveview (Live AF mode) shot I would suggest you to zoom in (use the magnify glass button on the camera, near AF-on). This will reduce the size of the white rectangle and will focus on a smaller area.

From the pictures, and the fact that you don't see any improvement when doing MFA, you clearly have the same issue as I did.

You should send your camera for repair with a letter showing the pictures you shot (maybe redo the LiveAF one with zoom).
You might as well want to expose properly the shots, use manual mode and the histogram in Liveview (http://www.photoplusma​g.com …ogram-on-your-eos-camera/ (external link)) to select the lowest ISO, lowest aperture, and proper shutter. To adjust the shutter speed, in that particular case, your histogram should have two spikes, try to change shutter speed (with top wheel) in order to get both spikes as far as possible, there your picture will be correctly exposed.

Might as well try to see if you can do the test I described here https://photography-on-the.net …p=17077451&post​count=1175 (I changed a bit the text, tell me if it's clear enough).




  
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meaton
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Aug 06, 2014 12:48 |  #1195

Molybdo42 wrote in post #17080160 (external link)
OK I looked, the surrounding AF marks are well placed so there can't be any confusion, the camera should have focused on the black strip. For the Liveview (Live AF mode) shot I would suggest you to zoom in (use the magnify glass button on the camera, near AF-on). This will reduce the size of the white rectangle and will focus on a smaller area.

From the pictures, and the fact that you don't see any improvement when doing MFA, you clearly have the same issue as I did.

You should send your camera for repair with a letter showing the pictures you shot (maybe redo the LiveAF one with zoom).
You might as well want to expose properly the shots, use manual mode and the histogram in Liveview (http://www.photoplusma​g.com …ogram-on-your-eos-camera/ (external link)) to select the lowest ISO, lowest aperture, and proper shutter. To adjust the shutter speed, in that particular case, your histogram should have two spikes, try to change shutter speed (with top wheel) in order to get both spikes as far as possible, there your picture will be correctly exposed.

Might as well try to see if you can do the test I described here https://photography-on-the.net …p=17077451&post​count=1175 (I changed a bit the text, tell me if it's clear enough).

Thanks again for looking at it. What was your problem exactly? Is the focus sensitive plate out of alignment to the viewfinder focus points? That's what it seems to me to be.

I have only had the camera one month and I used a credit card to purchase it, so I think I will just go for a full refund and when I buy another, I will take the chart and a tripod in to the shop and test it before I take it away :)




  
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Molybdo42
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Aug 06, 2014 13:08 |  #1196

Apart from the focus issue, another of my problem was that the areas where the camera can lock focus were completely misaligned with the marks you see in Liveview or through the viewfinder.

A normal 7D (not 70D) should look like this :

IMAGE: http://www.aerien.ch/IM/7d_focus_points.gif

in my case it looked like that (focus on the location of the red rectangles and the transparent ones, don't pay attention to the green marks) :
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This is why I told you that on the 70D (or even any Rebel, 60D, 7D), the area where the camera can perform focus is much wider then the black marks you see in the viewfinder. That's also why I paid so much attention to the location of surrounding marks for your 70D. As you can see, in my case for the central focus point, the yellow rectangle isn't centered.

Since the AF sensor has it's own set of small lenses, and seeing how spread apart the focus areas are, I simply deduced that my AF sensor wasn't well aligned and might be to far or too close from it's ideal position (as well as being slightly tilted or decentered to the left). Now the issue can also come from something else misaligned along the optical path from the end of the lens to the AF chip.

Up until now, this is the only test I can think of that would show the issue, even with slow lenses (but I didn't checked that last point on my 70D).



  
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meaton
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Aug 06, 2014 13:13 |  #1197

Molybdo42 wrote in post #17080224 (external link)
Apart from the focus issue, another of my problem was that the areas where the camera can lock focus were completely misaligned with the marks you see in Liveview or through the viewfinder.

A normal 7D (not 70D) should look like this :
[GIFS ARE NOT RENDERED IN QUOTES]

in my case it looked like that (focus on the location of the red rectangles and the transparent ones, don't pay attention to the green marks) :
QUOTED IMAGE

This is why I told you that on the 70D (or even any Rebel, 60D, 7D), the area where the camera can perform focus is much wider then the black marks you see in the viewfinder. That's also why I paid so much attention to the location of surrounding marks for your 70D. As you can see, in my case for the central focus point, the yellow rectangle isn't centered.

Since the AF sensor has it's own set of small lenses, and seeing how spread apart the focus areas are, I simply deduced that my AF sensor wasn't well aligned and might be to far or too close from it's ideal position (as well as being slightly tilted or decentered to the left). Now the issue can also come from something else misaligned along the optical path from the end of the lens to the AF chip.

Up until now, this is the only test I can think of that would show the issue, even with slow lenses (but I didn't checked that last point on my 70D).

I understand now, that is what I thought. OK guess I better get ready for the big argument with the store then :) Like I said though, glad I paid with my credit card :cool:




  
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electricme
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Aug 06, 2014 13:39 |  #1198

meaton wrote in post #17080236 (external link)
I understand now, that is what I thought. OK guess I better get ready for the big argument with the store then :) Like I said though, glad I paid with my credit card :cool:

If they give you a hard time dont buy from them again. Its not in a stores best interests to ruin a potential camera customer. we tend to drop lots of cash at a time...

Like a said a few posts up I took mine in with a few comparable shots that cant be ignored and they offered to exchange it as soon as I bring my box in tomorrow because they do not want me to be unhappy with a camera that has already been shipped off to service.

GL




  
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i-G12
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Aug 06, 2014 14:21 |  #1199

Molybdo42 wrote in post #17079955 (external link)
@i-G12 :
There are also manufacturing issues on 7000 € bodies...

Are you making excuses for the poor quality of Canon's newest model? There should be no excuse. Like I said PATHETIC. Having other models that have issues doesn't in the slightest excuse this mess with the 70D.

Mine seems to be OK. Although I don't have a 2.8 lens and can't get one now for fear the focus system won't work properly. Call it paranoia or whatever you want. I'm tired of the whole mess.

I'm probably not going to be satisfied until I find a different model to move to. Either the 6D or maybe the 7D Mark II if they ever come up with one.




  
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travisvwright
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Aug 06, 2014 14:59 |  #1200

meaton wrote in post #17079979 (external link)
OK here goes, you will be able to see which is which file by looking at them. Do you think this is the same issue this thread was started about? My biggest problem is that using MFA does not seem to make any difference to the AF or MF using focus confirmation either. I am totally confused.

I don't think it's the same issue. But it's still a pretty big problem. Yours actually looks like it's ignoring the single point AF mode. Maybe just a reset would make it start paying attention to that setting again.

I say it's not the same issue because the main issue the center point is off erratically but all the other points work correctly. Your seems to be consistent and across all points. But that's not to say it's not a real issue.


I come here for your expert opinion. Please do not hesitate to critique or edit.
70D, 6D, Canon 135, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Tamron 70-200 2.8 VC, Canon 50 1.4, Canon 100 2.8 Macro, Canon 85 1.8, Canon 10-18 4.5 STM

Franklin NC Photographer Travis Wright (external link)

  
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70D focus issue & blurred pictures
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