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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 14 Aug 2014 (Thursday) 17:08
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jrmy
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Aug 14, 2014 17:08 |  #1

I've recently received a request by a friend to shoot his upcoming Kickstarter campaign. He wants product and lifestyle shots and has offered "catering and booze" as "payment." I'm not sure what their budget is for their campaign but I do know they're sinking money into it.

Frankly, I'm insulted. I don't need the money, but I don't want to work for free. I'm a set photographer primarily and do some portraiture on the side. I normally do portrait work for friends on the cheap, but never free.

Do I risk damaging the relationship or suck it up and help a friend out?


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ksbal
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Aug 14, 2014 17:12 |  #2

Do you want/need to go? maybe a session (paying gig) got offered and you need the money?

What he is asking for takes quite a bit of skill, and is worthy of payment.


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kiapolo
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Aug 14, 2014 17:43 |  #3

If it's a kickstarter campaign, do you want what ever product or service he is trying to raise funds for? Why not bargain in exchange for your services for a an amount of the product or service they are offering should their kickstarter campaign be successful? Assuming you're interested in what ever product/service they are going to be promoting/offering.


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Box ­ Brownie
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Aug 14, 2014 17:54 |  #4

I suppose the question is are the other suppliers & creative being paid for their services i.e. is the catering & booze being supplied free? If there are people in the shots is there a MUA and is s/he being paid.

If the answer is yes to any of those then why not pay you??? He must know you are pro photographer (i.e. you earn a living from it) so what sort of favour is he doing you not to pay you "the rate"???

Out of interest what is his day job...............some​thing you could make use of for "free". Perhaps a barter arrangement it worth your while???


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Alveric
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Aug 14, 2014 17:56 |  #5
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jrmy wrote in post #17096584 (external link)
Do I risk damaging the relationship or suck it up and help a friend out?

Someone who takes advantage of a friend isn't one.


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jecottrell
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Aug 14, 2014 17:59 as a reply to  @ Alveric's post |  #6

Do it with a contract stating that if the project is funded, you'll receive $xxx.xx for your work.




  
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Clean ­ Gene
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Aug 14, 2014 19:43 |  #7

jrmy wrote in post #17096584 (external link)
I've recently received a request by a friend to shoot his upcoming Kickstarter campaign. He wants product and lifestyle shots and has offered "catering and booze" as "payment." I'm not sure what their budget is for their campaign but I do know they're sinking money into it.

Frankly, I'm insulted. I don't need the money, but I don't want to work for free. I'm a set photographer primarily and do some portraiture on the side. I normally do portrait work for friends on the cheap, but never free.

Do I risk damaging the relationship or suck it up and help a friend out?

Do it for free if you want to (I wouldn't), but I wouldn't worry about damaging the relationship. If he's the kind of person who'll ruin a relationship because you won't work for free, then you have to consider if it's really a relationship worth having.




  
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banquetbear
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Aug 14, 2014 19:54 as a reply to  @ Clean Gene's post |  #8

...leave your ego at the door. Offering catering and booze is a more than acceptable means of barter. If it was a mate, I'd take it in a heartbeat. They don't call me Big Mark for nothing. If his terms are acceptable to you then take the job. If they aren't, renegotiate. If you can't settle on terms, then turn him down.

This is business. His intent isn't to insult you. He needs photography. If his terms aren't acceptable to you, then simply politely decline.


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sspellman
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Aug 14, 2014 20:51 |  #9

Unless you can come to a real compensation agreement, just say no. I also try to be flexible for young businesses, but you work has value and must be compensated. You could defer compensation to a later date, get a bonus if funding is successful, or work out a trade of services or goods. I only agree to differ or trade up to 50% of my fees. The facts are that most young or small businesses fail, so be very careful negotiating.


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Car2n
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Aug 14, 2014 21:09 |  #10

In 2005, Mr. Choe was invited to paint murals on the walls of Facebook's first offices in Palo Alto, Calif., by Sean Parker, then Facebook's president. As pay, Mr. Parker offered Mr. Choe a choice between cash in the "thousands of dollars," according to several people who know Mr. Choe, or stock then worth about the same.

Mr. Choe, who has said that at the time that he thought the idea of Facebook was "ridiculous and pointless," nevertheless chose the stock.

Many "advisers" to the company at that time, which is how Mr. Choe would have been classified, would have received about 0.1 to 0.25 percent of the company, according to a former Facebook employee. That may sound like a paltry amount, but a stake that size is worth hundreds of millions of dollars, based on a market value of $100 billion. Mr. Choe's payment is valued at roughly $200 million, according to a number of people who know Mr. Choe and Facebook executives.


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sspellman
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Aug 14, 2014 21:25 |  #11

Car2n wrote in post #17096948 (external link)
In 2005, Mr. Choe was invited to paint murals on the walls of Facebook's first offices in Palo Alto, Calif., by Sean Parker, then Facebook's president. As pay, Mr. Parker offered Mr. Choe a choice between cash in the "thousands of dollars," according to several people who know Mr. Choe, or stock then worth about the same.

Mr. Choe, who has said that at the time that he thought the idea of Facebook was "ridiculous and pointless," nevertheless chose the stock.

Many "advisers" to the company at that time, which is how Mr. Choe would have been classified, would have received about 0.1 to 0.25 percent of the company, according to a former Facebook employee. That may sound like a paltry amount, but a stake that size is worth hundreds of millions of dollars, based on a market value of $100 billion. Mr. Choe's payment is valued at roughly $200 million, according to a number of people who know Mr. Choe and Facebook executives.

Its a good story, but hardly representative of the majority of stock offer trades. Had Choe painted his murals at WebVan, Pets.com, or eToys, then the story would not have a happy ending.


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tcphoto1
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Aug 14, 2014 22:58 |  #12

jecottrell wrote in post #17096686 (external link)
Do it with a contract stating that if the project is funded, you'll receive $xxx.xx for your work.

This is the only way that I would participate.


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Clean ­ Gene
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Aug 14, 2014 23:12 |  #13

sspellman wrote in post #17096982 (external link)
Its a good story, but hardly representative of the majority of stock offer trades. Had Choe painted his murals at WebVan, Pets.com, or eToys, then the story would not have a happy ending.

It's also sort of irrelevant since jrmy wasn't offered stock. He was offered catering and booze.




  
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SOK
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Aug 15, 2014 07:55 |  #14

banquetbear wrote in post #17096848 (external link)
...leave your ego at the door. Offering catering and booze is a more than acceptable means of barter. If it was a mate, I'd take it in a heartbeat. They don't call me Big Mark for nothing. If his terms are acceptable to you then take the job. If they aren't, renegotiate. If you can't settle on terms, then turn him down.

This is business. His intent isn't to insult you. He needs photography. If his terms aren't acceptable to you, then simply politely decline.

Exactly.

Man photographers really are a precious bunch...or perhaps hopeless negotiators who can't see past dollars and cents.

I'm on the same page as you Mark...maybe the beer economy is stronger in our part of the world?


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Sparrow19
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Aug 15, 2014 08:53 |  #15

For me, it would depend on how long he wanted me there working, and how involved you needed to be. If it was just a couple hours casually taking pictures, then I'd do it and enjoy the evening.

On the other hand, if its several hours, having to set up everything and basically be an event planner, then I'd request to be paid, or turn it down.


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