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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 27 Aug 2014 (Wednesday) 14:36
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The path of the full frame

 
Archibald
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Aug 30, 2014 13:10 |  #61

Wilt wrote in post #17126297 (external link)
Not puzzling at all, when one understands the fundamental optical law that the smaller the image circle of a lens, the higher the line-count per millimeter delivered to the film/sensor. For example microfilm lenses have always been able to resolve very tiny detail on super fine grain microfilm. In theory, a lens designed for APS-C only coverage ought to be able to resolve the same number of lines-pairs-per-picture-height as the FF lens, so that pixel count alone becomes the determining factor. But in dSLRs the FF lens is a dual purpose lens and the APS-C lens is generally more of a 'less expensive lens for amateurs' so the total resolution goal of the lens is lowered in the goal of lower cost to produce and sell.

It is an unfortunate historical fact that the very different FF and APS-C formats share a lens mount, and often FF lenses are considered dual purpose.

When I started in digital more than 8 years ago, there were no high quality EF-S lenses. So we used the crappy kit EF-S lenses together with the good quality EF lenses. It was an unsatisfactory kludge because the EF lenses were expensive and heavy, and more than half the useful image was cropped away.

Since then, Canon has introduced some very fine EF-S lenses, like the 17-55, and then the 15-85, and now the STM line. This has legitimized the format and made it much more useful for pro and amateur alike.

The FF and APS-C formats should now be considered separate lines. And indeed, many keep and use both formats, because each has their strengths. It is as in the olden days when many (including me) kept both 35mm and 120 format film cameras and lenses. (And sometimes 4x5 and larger formats too.)

With the very fine lenses now made for APS-C, the appropriate performance comparison should be FF body and FF lens against APS-C body and APS-C lens. As you suggest, they would probably come out about even for resolution.

FF still has advantages because the lens line is way more extensive, and also I believe DR is better. As well, ultimate noise performance is better because to get equivalent noise on an APS-C you would need an ISO of 25 or 50 (compared to 100 for FF), and those ISOs are not available on APS-C.

Those differences IMO are significant but mostly show up when we are light-stressed or when there are special demands. Under most conditions, the differences between FF and APS-C are not noticeable.


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Rolfe ­ D. ­ Wolfe
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Aug 30, 2014 14:17 as a reply to  @ Archibald's post |  #62

^ another thing I forgot-

The 5d can go down to 50 iso whereas my 550d is 100.

Some may not think that's a big deal, but every bit helps when you are going for a certain shot.


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Charlie
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Aug 30, 2014 14:18 |  #63

Rolfe D. Wolfe wrote in post #17126494 (external link)
^ another thing I forgot-

The 5d can go down to 50 iso whereas my 550d is 100.

Some may not think that's a big deal, but every bit helps when you are going for a certain shot.

it's boosted, it really doesnt help. it's essentially ISO100 pulled down a stop.


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Aug 30, 2014 16:02 |  #64

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17125502 (external link)
Where? I don't see that on the refurb Canon site. I am quite sure Canon isn't ready to sell the 6d for that price just yet. :)

Sorry that was the 7D price. Your right the 6D refurb is around the $1500 range. Which is a sign my oldtimerz is worsening, as I have bought both in the last 6 months.:lol:


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Aug 30, 2014 16:29 |  #65

Any thoughts on a 1D3?
Under 1K now. The APS H 1.3 sensor is still a big step up.


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Aug 30, 2014 16:54 |  #66

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #17126688 (external link)
Any thoughts on a 1D3?
Under 1K now. The APS H 1.3 sensor is still a big step up.

Ugh, no wide angle with that format.


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chinch
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Aug 30, 2014 18:00 |  #67

Archibald wrote in post #17126727 (external link)
Ugh, no wide angle with that format.

16-35 is fantastic though on the 1D3.




  
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Rolfe ­ D. ­ Wolfe
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Aug 30, 2014 19:07 |  #68

Charlie wrote in post #17126498 (external link)
it's boosted, it really doesnt help. it's essentially ISO100 pulled down a stop.

Again, the 550d doesn't have that function.

Boosted or not, it still serves a purpose.


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gonzogolf
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Aug 30, 2014 20:31 |  #69

Rolfe D. Wolfe wrote in post #17126864 (external link)
Again, the 550d doesn't have that function.

Boosted or not, it still serves a purpose.

Considering an ND filter can replicate that function with no loss of dynamic range its a poor reason to pick one camera over another.




  
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CyberDyneSystems
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Sep 01, 2014 12:28 |  #70

chinch wrote in post #17126799 (external link)
16-35 is fantastic though on the 1D3.

12-24mm Sigma, and many others.


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Sep 01, 2014 14:24 |  #71

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17124159 (external link)
Would you be willing to show some of your weddings shots where you feel your 70d AF was a better choice than the 6d? I need a 2nd body due to be becoming a 2nd shooter, and haven't decided what to pair with the 5d3.

This is from a couple days ago. The AF wasn't tested, but the frame rate certainly helped (only got 2-3 pics with the plane anywhere in the frame). And just to clarify, I wasn't saying a 70d is going to be a better camera for weddings than a 6d. Only that the auto-focus abilities and better frame-rate, coupled with MUCH cheaper glass options make it an attractive route.

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Sep 01, 2014 15:38 |  #72

Rolfe D. Wolfe wrote in post #17126864 (external link)
Again, the 550d doesn't have that function.

Boosted or not, it still serves a purpose.

The ISO 50 setting reduces dynamic range by a stop in the highlights.

http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/Canon_EOS_5D (external link)

Yeah let's buy a FF camera because it has a higher DR, so it's so much better and you can use ISO50. Oh wait.... :eek:


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Sep 01, 2014 15:41 |  #73

But ok, having ISO50 and 1/8000s speed is very handing when the OP is shooting with his 50 f1.2 L @f1.2 in a very sunny day. Oh snap....


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gonzogolf
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Sep 01, 2014 16:23 |  #74

Azathoth wrote in post #17129990 (external link)
But ok, having ISO50 and 1/8000s speed is very handing when the OP is shooting with his 50 f1.2 L @f1.2 in a very sunny day. Oh snap....

Snap yourself. Anyone shooting that combo should have ND filters.




  
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Sep 01, 2014 19:02 |  #75

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #17129578 (external link)
12-24mm Sigma, and many others.

+1
I don't have one but a local Pro is quite happy with his Sigma 12-24 on his 1D4 - I found it a bit wider than I need on full frame.


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The path of the full frame
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