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Thread started 08 Sep 2014 (Monday) 20:30
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creepy old guy photographing miggle school girls

 
phantelope
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Sep 09, 2014 16:29 |  #16

the principal and the police know now. There's something not quite right with that guy.


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IShootThings
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Sep 09, 2014 17:35 |  #17

Everybody has already said it, call the cops. If nothing else, they'll run him off.


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20droger
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Sep 10, 2014 11:29 |  #18

IShootThings wrote in post #17144890 (external link)
Everybody has already said it, call the cops. If nothing else, they'll run him off.

Of course, then those in the creepy-old-guy camp will be complaining in yet another cops-persecute-photographer thread.




  
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mikeinctown
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Sep 11, 2014 08:28 as a reply to  @ post 17144592 |  #19

Justinsmnz wrote in post #17144511 (external link)
You honestly think it's the school's dress code that's to blame for situations such as this?

If the school allows short skirts then yes I do believe that the attire is part of the problem. This is no different then schools mandating uniforms to keep gang colors and other violence out of schools.

phantelope wrote in post #17144548 (external link)
But that's besides the point, he's a slimy cretin.

And you know this because he stands there with his dog. he isn't violating any laws and you have no idea what he is really doing, yet you want to place a label. What exactly does that make you, then?




  
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20droger
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Sep 11, 2014 15:20 |  #20

mikeinctown wrote in post #17147787 (external link)
If the school allows short skirts then yes I do believe that the attire is part of the problem. This is no different then schools mandating uniforms to keep gang colors and other violence out of schools.

The problem with short skirts lies not with the school, but with the girls and their parents. This is a whole 'nuther subject, and I shan't go into it here.

And you know this because he stands there with his dog. he isn't violating any laws and you have no idea what he is really doing, yet you want to place a label. What exactly does that make you, then?

It makes him observant.

Standing around (with or without a dog) ogling and/or photographing random 12–14 year old girls may not be illegal, but it is immoral and most definitely creepy. Such persons need to be monitored to protect society as a whole, and the young girls in particular. If he never crosses the line, fine, but far too often some do.

After all, would you want him collecting pictures of your daughter on a windy day?




  
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Wolfeye
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Sep 11, 2014 15:33 |  #21

This is an overreaction. Taking pictures is not a crime. Taking pictures of a girl in public and then going home and masturbating to that picture is also not illegal. It might disgust you, but it is not illegal.

There are PLENTY of things this guy could do that are indeed illegal and if he does, or attempts any of them, he should be arrested and prosecuted.

The funny thing is, 90% of the "street photogs" I've seen are taking the same type of pictures, surreptitiously, and yet their efforts are called art. They just do it with a cell phone.




  
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losangelino
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Sep 11, 2014 15:41 |  #22

Wolfeye wrote in post #17148589 (external link)
This is an overreaction. Taking pictures is not a crime. Taking pictures of a girl in public and then going home and masturbating to that picture is also not illegal. It might disgust you, but it is not illegal.

You're right both are not crimes. But it is also indicative of behavior that may be criminal. If one is 50 years old and he's been masturbating to children since he was 18 (btw no one just one day becomes attracted to a child. People are attracted to what they're attracted to at adolescence), then for 32 years he's been dreaming about sex with kids. And has been reinforcing the behavior and thoughts of sex with minors with the sexual self gratification. If given the opportunity would he? I bet yes. But even if we don't know, would you want your kids around him. it is a good idea for parents and teachers to keep an eye on people like him. There is no overreaction in reporting suspicious activity. Let the police and courts and jury of peers decide. There is a lot of steps involved. A very small percentage of child molesters are ever reported. An even smaller percentage of them arrested. And a percentage of that percentage--convicted.

But about 1 in 3 girls and 1 in 5 boys are sexually abused in the us. It's a large number. Which means as a society not enough is being done.



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Sep 11, 2014 21:28 as a reply to  @ losangelino's post |  #23

When I was working for a newspaper I was assigned a job to shoot a house for a real estate feature. The house was across the street from a public high school. Late morning, I parked the company car (which doesn't have any identifying information on it) across the street from the school. With my camera over my shoulder I stood by the car waiting for the real estate agent. It took about five minutes for someone who identified himself as the Deputy Principal and another male teacher to ask the question, what I was doing there.

I was in my rights to ignore them as I was on public property. I told them who I was and what I was doing there. A few pleasantries were exchanged and they were on their way.

Now,, why was it taking so long for someone to approach this guy?

My first thought was to wonder what the heck the school dress code is that would allow such short skirts that a guy would be standing there to take photos of them

The problem with short skirts lies not with the school, but with the girls and their parents. This is a whole 'nuther subject, and I shan't go into it here.

I've always been in favour of school uniforms. Our girls wore them (with pride) and our grandson who starts school this coming January will also wear one. Compulsory in both schools.

Standing around (with or without a dog) ogling and/or photographing random 12–14 year old girls may not be illegal, but it is immoral and most definitely creepy. Such persons need to be monitored to protect society as a whole, and the young girls in particular. If he never crosses the line, fine, but far too often some do.

As a father of daughters, I couldn't agree more.


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Sep 11, 2014 22:15 as a reply to  @ yogestee's post |  #24

As with most things, there are two sides to this.

As the OP is/was, I too would be concerned about an unaccompanied man taking photographs outside my daughter's school at home-time. This is a perfectly natural reaction.

However, to instantly call the police is ridiculous. And could possibly damage the perceptions regarding all photographers of a certain demographic in that area. A certain amount of pertinent information should be gleaned before calling the police.

Was he using a telephoto or wide-angle lens ? As in, was he singling individual girls out or was he taking photos of the school as a whole ? For all you know, he could be chronicling the school as it changes through the years, including uniforms and dress styles and such.

Or, he could indeed be a pervert.

I think informing the school is as far as the OP should go. Let them decide the next course of action.

As for school girls wearing short skirts as part of a uniform, well this is a touchy subject and as a father of a growing young girl myself, I tend to think that schools allow too much freedom in uniform interpretation. That said, in my area, a lot of schools are cracking down on it.

All told, a man with a camera in public places will always be under suspicion in the eyes of society these days. Parents are paranoid creatures (and I include myself in that analogy).


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Sep 11, 2014 22:42 |  #25

I noticed nobody actually talked to the guy. If you did and he turns out to be a stroke victim who shakes so much no photo would matter, or an early Alzheimer's patient who thinks it is 1972, or an older Down's Syndrome sufferer, then what?

I'm a parent. We had the armada of parents at the bus stop, and all because over time in the back of everyone's mind is the Amber Alert. And that's because our alarmist media culture combined with insanely graphic TV increased fear, not because any more kids fell victim than they did when I was a child.

In my school district, when we thought we had some concern, a few big guys showed up for a very cordial conversation. And all that was said was that we noticed something during a casual chat. And ya know what? Nobody ever found a darn thing.

So, the evidence you have is that the guy has looked flaky for a long time. And never did anything to anyone. Ever. He's creepy. He acts strange. That reminds me of something I was taught as a child near Boston, MA. Something about Salem, if memory serves.

There's a reason you need evidence. Sadly, today, many don't confront a fear, they try to convince someone else to do it for them. Anonymously.

I think someone once said that courage is being scared as h(ll of getting on that horse, and doing it anyway.

Talk to the guy. Be nice. He may be fighting a battle you know nothing about.


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Justinsmnz
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Sep 11, 2014 23:16 |  #26

mikeinctown wrote in post #17147787 (external link)
If the school allows short skirts then yes I do believe that the attire is part of the problem. This is no different then schools mandating uniforms to keep gang colors and other violence out of schools.

So had he been taking photos of little girls at a public pool we wouldn't even be having this conversation because the dress code there is so irresistible that we can just accept it, right? I honestly don't understand your argument here.

The man in question is innocent until proven guilty, of course. However, if he is actually taking pictures of the girls for "immoral" purposes, then the dress code of the school is entirely irrelevant. It sounds like you're trying to say that if the school allows short skirts, then they're somehow attempting to put their students on display for the pedophiles of the world to enjoy. Or similarly, if the girls choose to wear short skirts then they're somehow putting themselves on a platter for the pedophiles with open arms? Or maybe I'm just totally misunderstanding what you're saying?


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Sep 12, 2014 09:05 |  #27

quickben wrote in post #17149251 (external link)
As with most things, there are two sides to this.

As the OP is/was, I too would be concerned about an unaccompanied man taking photographs outside my daughter's school at home-time. This is a perfectly natural reaction.

However, to instantly call the police is ridiculous. And could possibly damage the perceptions regarding all photographers of a certain demographic in that area. A certain amount of pertinent information should be gleaned before calling the police.

Was he using a telephoto or wide-angle lens ? As in, was he singling individual girls out or was he taking photos of the school as a whole ? For all you know, he could be chronicling the school as it changes through the years, including uniforms and dress styles and such.

Or, he could indeed be a pervert.

I think informing the school is as far as the OP should go. Let them decide the next course of action.

As for school girls wearing short skirts as part of a uniform, well this is a touchy subject and as a father of a growing young girl myself, I tend to think that schools allow too much freedom in uniform interpretation. That said, in my area, a lot of schools are cracking down on it.

All told, a man with a camera in public places will always be under suspicion in the eyes of society these days. Parents are paranoid creatures (and I include myself in that analogy).

along these lines...

I like to take street shots. and I am fully aware I appear creepy to 99% of people. half the people who see me give me a wtf look. and there are plenty of times I have seen kids who I thought would have looked amazing in a candid shot but I couldn't bring myself to do it because of all the people who posted in this thread. it is purely for artistic reasons I want the shot but immediately everyone assumes the worst.

I've been told that in Europe it is far more common to take pictures of other people's kids and people don't automatically think along the lines of these. do you think there are less sickos in Europe? for a country built on freedoms we seem the most active in taking away rights.

do you think it's right for cops to profile against blacks? what makes you think it's okay to profile against photographers?

many hypocrites here. people don't want to be hassled about their right to take pics in public spaces yet that is exactly what is happening here, by photographers themselves.

heck, I even hesitated to post this post just in case google causes problems for me later. but well, someone has to say it.

look, men like grown women. many men will do things in private looking at grown women. BUT, most men will not hurt a grown woman. I am not saying it is right, but it is logical to think most people would not hurt kids either. there are sick people out there, but don't be a hypocrite and assume of them what you don't want others to assume of you.

...and lastly, do you think it's harmless to tell the principal? to "alert" the authorities? have YOU been hassled before? I am profiled constantly for the car I drive. I've been pulled over many many times for the stupidest reasons. some cops even have apologized to me afterwards. and because of this, every single time I see a cop my heart jumps out of my chest. EVERY TIME. it is NOT harmless just to tell.


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phantelope
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Sep 12, 2014 15:16 |  #28

I know it's not illegal, but he behaved in a very strange way, hiding in the bushes. He's obviously behaving odd enough for the principal to approach him last year and several parents knew exactly whom I was talking about. Since he saw me taking photos I haven't seen him, though I do have my phone on video every day now driving past where he was, just in case.

It's a bit different walking around town and doing street photography and standing behind a trashcan in the shade taking photos of kids. I know it's perfectly legal, that doesn't make it right though.

And who ever gets hung up on the clothing, the school has the same policy as any other school here in NorCal and enforces it for one, and 2nd I don't see where that has any relevance here anyway. I'd not want some guy like that taking secret pictures of my daughter in a swim suit or in a deep sea diving suit. And it's certainly better to inconvenience some guy than looking away. I believe in See Something, Say Something. I'd not mind a cop or anybody else asking what I'm doing when I'm taking pictures, but if he's there with a dirty mind, he might think twice about showing up with his camera again.

Anyway, the school knows, their onsite officer knows, and an other parent informed the police. And all were thankful. If I see him again taking photos I will send that evidence on to the principal as well and let them handle it.

I did not approach him, as I'm in the car stuck in pickup traffic, nor would I, as you can never know who might or might not have a weapon in the back of his pants. I leave confrontations like that to those that are trained in it.

Street shots of kids splashing in a fountain or having icecream dripping off their face are a bit different than hiding in the bushes under a big tree, at least I'd think so. Local newspaper always has such photos (though the photographers always come up to people and get their info after they took the shot). He was behaving "shifty" IMO.

Oh, and as I am from Germany and my sis with her 4 kids lives there, I can tell you it's pretty much the same there. Some old guy with a camera hanging around a school or playground would arouse the exact same suspicions. We were in Paris last year, you're not even allowed to enter playgrounds without a kid or more in tow. It's always better to be careful than careless. And some had a guard.

And yes, I think it's not only completely harmless to tell the principal, I think it's necessary. And I'd not want to read in the paper about something I might have been able to help avoid. Just as I'd report a most likely completely harmless forgotten backpack sitting at a bus stop etc.

If there's nothing to it, the guy might have a conversation and that's it. Would not bother me one bit.

I'm curious though, what kind of car do you drive?


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Sep 12, 2014 15:38 as a reply to  @ phantelope's post |  #29

Typical profiling material

Numerous incidents in a black c4 corvette

Followed 2mi from my house to a restaurant in my brand new corvette c5 z06. Into the parking lot. Got out of my car. Then the cop turned and left.

Followed 3mi from a gas station I a beat up 86 corolla. Onto freeway. Cop pulled me over and apologized.

Pulled over randomly in vegas with my new Evo x. No reason. Cop said nice car.

Not too much happened in my s2000.

Anyway... Yes I agree guy is suspicious. But that's why we teach that people have rights and profiling is wrong.

Why is sexual harassment wrong when there will be no immediate danger? Why do we not follow black kids just cause they wear hoodies? Etc. the obvious answer is because harassment itself is harmful.

Let's say the principal talks to him and he never comes back. Would you feel good about the fact that u made a person feel bad about doing something completely within his rights?

I admit I'm a sucky street photog. When people approach me I put away my camera. Yeah I look heall suspicious standing in the corner under shadows point my camera at people. But I'm a nice guy and it's the only way for someone of my skill level to get that shot. If u was at the park taking pictures of pretty girls running by what does one immediately think??? Right. And I assure you I am not that.

Well anyway just something to think about. I don't think any minds will be changed but as long as the seed is there I am happy enough.


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Sep 12, 2014 16:03 |  #30

Xyclopx wrote in post #17150587 (external link)
Anyway... Yes I agree guy is suspicious. But that's why we teach that people have rights and profiling is wrong.

Isn't everyone who agrees that this man is suspicious based on the description of him presented in this thread acknowledging the validity of profiling?

If not, on what basis are we determining that he's suspicious and should be confronted by the authorities?


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