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FORUMS News & Rumors Camera Rumors and Predictions 
Thread started 07 Aug 2014 (Thursday) 17:32
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My thoughts on the 7D mkII and Canon Rumors

 
andrikos
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Sep 12, 2014 05:42 |  #316

pwm2 wrote in post #17149518 (external link)
It would be very interesting if the camera gets released with a 5-color foveon-style sensor.

Foveon-like sensor with 10fps and 16k ISO?

Super-mega-highly unlikely.

If that happens, my pre-order is already in.


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Shadowblade
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Sep 12, 2014 06:32 |  #317

20.2MP could represent a very good sensor, or a very poor sensor.

It's a decent pixel density for a 1.6x crop sensor. If they managed to match the Exmor for dynamic range, then it would be a good sensor. If it's merely a rehash of the 70D, however, then it would be a very poor sensor, only useful if you shoot exclusively at ISO 3200 and above (where Canon and Nikon/Sony sensors perform about the same). So far, there's nothing to suggest it's the former or that there's any new technology that actually improves the RAW image quality.




  
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Geordie ­ Amanda
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Sep 12, 2014 08:29 |  #318

May I ask a potentially daft question. Assuming the new 7DII does indeed have the 70D sensor, albeit with a few tweaks to associated hardware and software, I am assuming the basic IQ (especially noise) wont be much of an improvement over the 7D. But, the advanced AF, high burst rate etc will mean I have a better chance to catch that all important action shot or perhaps bif as well as improved buffer to machine gun till my hearts content. Ok, so here is the question.

If the cost of the 7DII is not much lower than the current discounted 5DIII, might it be a good move to go 5DIII FF, lose a little reach and burst rate, but gain improved noise and of course the lovely FF image benefits too. I am guessing that the extra pixels would mean the ability to crop slightly tighter would help regain some of the lost reach back in PP (with suitable high IQ lenses of course).

I've not used a 5DIII in anger, but it's AF system is still considered pretty advanced I believe and would certainly be superior to my current 7D. Can I just add that of course I don't know if the 7DIII will turn out to be my personal Holy Grail or not yet, so of course this is all just an idea (and me wanting to blow the money I have saved up for a 7DII :D ).


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howiewu
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Sep 12, 2014 08:49 |  #319

Geordie Amanda wrote in post #17149833 (external link)
May I ask a potentially daft question. Assuming the new 7DII does indeed have the 70D sensor, albeit with a few tweaks to associated hardware and software, I am assuming the basic IQ (especially noise) wont be much of an improvement over the 7D. But, the advanced AF, high burst rate etc will mean I have a better chance to catch that all important action shot or perhaps bif as well as improved buffer to machine gun till my hearts content. Ok, so here is the question.

If the cost of the 7DII is not much lower than the current discounted 5DIII, might it be a good move to go 5DIII FF, lose a little reach and burst rate, but gain improved noise and of course the lovely FF image benefits too. I am guessing that the extra pixels would mean the ability to crop slightly tighter would help regain some of the lost reach back in PP (with suitable high IQ lenses of course).

I've not used a 5DIII in anger, but it's AF system is still considered pretty advanced I believe and would certainly be superior to my current 7D. Can I just add that of course I don't know if the 7DIII will turn out to be my personal Holy Grail or not yet, so of course this is all just an idea (and me wanting to blow the money I have saved up for a 7DII :D ).

It is an interesting question, but you are making too many assumptions (as we all are). To answer this kind of specific comparison question, it's better to withhold judgement until we see the actual samples from the purported 7DII. And to speculate the 7DIII (!) is just too premature at this point, when we don't even know the actual specs of the 7DII.


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Geordie ­ Amanda
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Sep 12, 2014 09:21 |  #320

howiewu wrote in post #17149886 (external link)
It is an interesting question, but you are making too many assumptions (as we all are). To answer this kind of specific comparison question, it's better to withhold judgement until we see the actual samples from the purported 7DII. And to speculate the 7DIII (!) is just too premature at this point, when we don't even know the actual specs of the 7DII.

I agree and as I said, it may be that the 7DII is my personal Holy Grail :) But the question of the 5DIII over a crop sensor of any realistic ability, is one that has been in my mind for several months. It's just that my thoughts on this matter have been clarifying as of late. I love my 7D except for the noise issue at slightly higher ISO, but find whenever I see a shot that really pops in the lens threads, it is 9 times out of 10, form a FF. I'm beginning to think it might be time to bite the bullet regardless of the 7DII and it's abilities. Only a thought though :)


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howiewu
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Sep 12, 2014 10:02 |  #321

Geordie Amanda wrote in post #17149938 (external link)
I agree and as I said, it may be that the 7DII is my personal Holy Grail :) But the question of the 5DIII over a crop sensor of any realistic ability, is one that has been in my mind for several months. It's just that my thoughts on this matter have been clarifying as of late. I love my 7D except for the noise issue at slightly higher ISO, but find whenever I see a shot that really pops in the lens threads, it is 9 times out of 10, form a FF. I'm beginning to think it might be time to bite the bullet regardless of the 7DII and it's abilities. Only a thought though :)

Well, for ultimate image quality, FF is the way to go. But I get what you are saying: you want IQ but also want very capable AF, etc., which rules out the Sony A7R for example.

But based on the current status of things (and taken the 7DII rumored specs into consideration), I'd say for ultimate reach, the 7DII would be the camera of choice.

So it really comes down to ultimate IQ vs. ultimate reach, IMO.


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Geordie ­ Amanda
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Sep 12, 2014 10:18 |  #322

howiewu wrote in post #17150021 (external link)
Well, for ultimate image quality, FF is the way to go. But I get what you are saying: you want IQ but also want very capable AF, etc., which rules out the Sony A7R for example.

But based on the current status of things (and taken the 7DII rumored specs into consideration), I'd say for ultimate reach, the 7DII would be the camera of choice.

So it really comes down to ultimate IQ vs. ultimate reach, IMO.

I read (from a link somewhere on this site) a comparison between APS-C and FF, where the extra pixels of the FF were taken into account when extra cropping was done in PP in order to match the effective extra reach of the APS-C sensor. It seemed to suggest that the APS-C was slightly better for taking that end of lens shot vs the extra cropping in PP done to the FF image. Of course there are many other factors to include on final result, but it's something for me to ponder :)


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Archibald
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Sep 12, 2014 10:50 |  #323

howiewu wrote in post #17150021 (external link)
Well, for ultimate image quality, FF is the way to go.

We might sometimes think the old 35mm format is somehow "ultimate", but it is popular today essentially because its film predecessor was so ubiquitous. The dimensions are not optimal but a historical accident. There is nothing inherently ultimate about it. For ultimate, check out the medium format backs (Leaf/Phase One).


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kfreels
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Sep 12, 2014 11:14 |  #324

Geordie Amanda wrote in post #17149833 (external link)
May I ask a potentially daft question. Assuming the new 7DII does indeed have the 70D sensor, albeit with a few tweaks to associated hardware and software, I am assuming the basic IQ (especially noise) wont be much of an improvement over the 7D. But, the advanced AF, high burst rate etc will mean I have a better chance to catch that all important action shot or perhaps bif as well as improved buffer to machine gun till my hearts content. Ok, so here is the question.

If the cost of the 7DII is not much lower than the current discounted 5DIII, might it be a good move to go 5DIII FF, lose a little reach and burst rate, but gain improved noise and of course the lovely FF image benefits too. I am guessing that the extra pixels would mean the ability to crop slightly tighter would help regain some of the lost reach back in PP (with suitable high IQ lenses of course).

I've not used a 5DIII in anger, but it's AF system is still considered pretty advanced I believe and would certainly be superior to my current 7D. Can I just add that of course I don't know if the 7DIII will turn out to be my personal Holy Grail or not yet, so of course this is all just an idea (and me wanting to blow the money I have saved up for a 7DII :D ).

It all depends on your goals. To crop and get the same pixel density your FF camera would need to be about 51MP. At 51MP you just won't get the framerates. The camera has a specific goal - to get as much reach as possible and to capture it as accurately as possible as fast as possible. The 7D AF at this point appears to be better than the 1DX actually with 150,000 pixels in the iTR AF instead of 100,000. Plus at 18MP on the full frame, the 1DX has less reach through cropability than even the 5D3. I wouldn't be surprised to see the 7D punch up those framerates even higher - basically replacing the APS-H 1D. And then take the 1D and push those megapixels WAY up providing a greater differentiator.

From a price point, I expect there to still be a considerable difference in price between the 7DII and 5DIII. The 5DIII body is selling around $3400 I think right now. The 7DII will likely come in at close to half that.


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Chakra99
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Sep 12, 2014 11:23 |  #325

Canon is also releasing 3 new lenses along with 7DII

Canon EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM - Pancake

Canon EF 24-105mm f/ 3.5-5.6 IS STM (cheaper kit lens for 6D)

Canon EF 400mm f/4 DO IS II USM


http://petapixel.com …om-400mm-telephoto-prime/ (external link)


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Geordie ­ Amanda
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Sep 12, 2014 11:36 |  #326

kfreels wrote in post #17150160 (external link)
It all depends on your goals. To crop and get the same pixel density your FF camera would need to be about 51MP. At 51MP you just won't get the framerates. The camera has a specific goal - to get as much reach as possible and to capture it as accurately as possible as fast as possible. The 7D AF at this point appears to be better than the 1DX actually with 150,000 pixels in the iTR AF instead of 100,000. Plus at 18MP on the full frame, the 1DX has less reach through cropability than even the 5D3. I wouldn't be surprised to see the 7D punch up those framerates even higher - basically replacing the APS-H 1D. And then take the 1D and push those megapixels WAY up providing a greater differentiator.

From a price point, I expect there to still be a considerable difference in price between the 7DII and 5DIII. The 5DIII body is selling around $3400 I think right now. The 7DII will likely come in at close to half that.

Currently the 5DIII is about £2,300 here in the UK and I guess the 7DII will be around £1,500 at launch (give or take). I now own a Tamron 150-600mm (OK it's not an L lens in IQ) But instead of using a 7D with my 70-200mm f2.8 II and a 1.4TC, I could use the Tamron with a 5DIII.

Its just such a large investment for a hobbyist that it's hard to know what's best. I mainly shoot Sports involving water (and for some strange reason I love taking pictures of Gulls :D ) I'm sure the 7DII would be better for the things I do, but even if the 'keeper' rate goes up due to the improved AF, I probably still wont see a noticeable improvement in overall IQ. Of course I am assuming that the 7DII has the 70D sensor and we don't know that yet :D Perhaps I should wait for he 7DIII etc


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Keith ­ R
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Sep 12, 2014 11:53 |  #327

I probably still wont see a noticeable improvement in overall IQ. Of course I am assuming that the 7DII has the 70D sensor

If it's the same sensor, I assure you that you will see a noticeable improvement in IQ.




  
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Sep 12, 2014 12:55 |  #328

Keith R wrote in post #17150214 (external link)
If it's the same sensor, I assure you that you will see a noticeable improvement in IQ.

I assure you it will not be as big of an improvment as manny here are expecting.


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Sep 12, 2014 13:24 as a reply to  @ FEChariot's post |  #329

I'm convinced Canon is the Apple of Cameras, tiny little upgrades at a time and everyone gets excited and goes out and buys....

i'm hoping the 7D Has a 1d top plate as previously mentioned, but doubt it... will be a 7d body with the MKII symbol and a 70D sensor... Nice!


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Singularity96
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Sep 12, 2014 13:30 |  #330

dtufino wrote in post #17150370 (external link)
I'm convinced Canon is the Apple of Cameras, tiny little upgrades at a time and everyone gets excited and goes out and buys....

i'm hoping the 7D Has a 1d top plate as previously mentioned, but doubt it... will be a 7d body with the MKII symbol and a 70D sensor... Nice!

+ 5d af




  
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