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Thread started 24 Sep 2014 (Wednesday) 17:01
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Has the 7D2 spec changed your mind to buy ? ? ?

 
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Sep 24, 2014 19:56 |  #16

palad1n wrote in post #17175865 (external link)
there is one feature i really miss on any other camera and which only 1D series has:

exposure metering related to selected AF point.

also f/8 autofocus possibility is great too.

stop being oriented just about highISO performance, currently the noise level gaps between Canon cameras are narrower than ever even across the format if you shoot RAW. Other features are important as well.

From the 7DI to the 1DX/6D, there is a rough 2 1/3 stop gap at high ISOs in raw content. There are 6 cameras occupying this space currently, including the 7D2 due to be out in 2 months. The APS-Cs occupy the first 2/3 stop, the FF occupy the last 2/3 stop, with about a 1 stop gap between the APS-C and FF.

7D - 70D/7D2..... 1 stop ...... 5D3 - 6D - 1DX

The older 5D2 and 1D4 sit right in the middle of that 1 stop gap.

That is my assessment after having worked with raw files from just about all 8 cameras, either personally taking the raw shots myself, or supplied by others. Copy variations will shift one's assessment one way or another a bit, but on average, this is pretty close to what we see. A 1 stop advantage is not very narrow, because that is about the limit of how much noise one can post process out of a file while still leaving respectable amount of detail to work with.


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Sep 24, 2014 20:00 |  #17

GeoKras1989 wrote in post #17175952 (external link)
I am kind of surprised at my reaction to the 7D2. Anyone familiar with my posts knows I specifically avoided the 7D, and thought the 7D2 would never exist. Well here goes... I was impressed by three things: the AF system, fps, and the buffer. Over 1,000 full-rez JPGs! The motivation for my change of heart is that my subjects are changing. When I bought my 60D, my action shooting consisted of T-ball and other elementary school activities. My grandchildren are getting older, more active in things, and faster. I was considering maybe next year, selling my 60D and 6D, and moving to a 5D3. If I am going to shoot action, the 7D2 certainly looks like a better camera, and its half the price of a 5D3. I'm cheap. You do the math. There may be a 7D2 in my future.

I would still pit the 5D3 against the 7D2 in the AF department, they should be so close to each other.The budgetary concern is a big one though, and the effective reach via the crop factor is a nice thing too when shooting action, along with 10fps.


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Sep 24, 2014 20:01 |  #18

canon rookie wrote in post #17175929 (external link)
Ha true but my 6D needs no noise reduction work at all at ISO 6400 and when your shooting 300+ pics a game 4-5 times a week I sure don't have time to smooze a high ISO 7D pic.;)

I can process 300 7D images for ISO 6400 with a click of a button, then go to dinner. When I come back, I only have to work on any exceptions and compositional cropping. :) Seriously, people make it sound like noise removal is a picture by picture action, but if you set up your camera to shoot something as consistently as you can, the files can be batched processed.


I had to shoot at some high ISOs this weekend. Yikes...

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Sep 24, 2014 20:02 |  #19
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nwa2 wrote in post #17175919 (external link)
I really like the features on the new 7D ii, but I have recently purchased a 6D so not in the market for a new crop body. The combination of the 7D and 6D works for me. If anything my next purchase is likely to be a wide EF lens to replace my sigma 10-20 EF-S.

I replaced my 10-22 with a 17-40 when I got a 6D. The 17-40 is not held is such high esteem by FF shooters, but the 6D/17-40 combination is better than the 60D/10-22 was, for my use anyway.


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Sep 24, 2014 20:06 as a reply to  @ post 17175939 |  #20

I am holding out for the 6d mkii :)

I would love it if canon made a camera right in the middle of the 5diii and the 6D. Love the sensor in the 6d but my old t4i had a much better focus system. Something like a 6D with a working 70D focus system in it with a 1/8000 shutter would be awesome. for me :)

I knew the 7D2 would be a crop and really figured the way they ran the 18mp sensor forever that they would just do the same thing with the 70D sensor.
That AF system looks amazing but is some serious overkill for the average shooter. It's like they made a camera just for the few people who shoot birds all the time.
The no tilty touch screen was a real bummer but I think its going to be a great camera for a lot of people. Jut doesn't interest me much, mainly because i don't shoot birds at all.




  
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Sep 24, 2014 20:06 |  #21
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TeamSpeed wrote in post #17175960 (external link)
I would still pit the 5D3 against the 7D2 in the AF department, they should be so close to each other.The budgetary concern is a big one though, and the effective reach via the crop factor is a nice thing too when shooting action, along with 10fps.

My thoughts exactly. A 70-200 2.8 OS on crop is fine for field sports in daylight. The 5D3 is expensive, and I'd want a 300 f/4 or a Sigma 120-300 in front of it. $$$$$ counts. I may even be able to get by with a used 7D, the camera I've been avoiding for 5 years!


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Sep 24, 2014 20:10 |  #22
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Scoobert wrote in post #17175975 (external link)
I am holding out for the 6d mkii :)

I would love it if canon made a camera right in the middle of the 5diii and the 6D. Love the sensor in the 6d but my old t4i had a much better focus system. Something like a 6D with a working 70D focus system in it with a 1/8000 shutter would be awesome. for me :)

...

Yeah! 6D2 with 70D AF, 1/250 sync and 1/8000. Of course, then I wouldn't need a 7D2, just a Sigma 120-300. Why is this hobby so darn EXPENSIVE?!?!?


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Sep 24, 2014 20:12 |  #23

Scoobert wrote in post #17175975 (external link)
I am holding out for the 6d mkii :)

I would love it if canon made a camera right in the middle of the 5diii and the 6D. Love the sensor in the 6d but my old t4i had a much better focus system. Something like a 6D with a working 70D focus system in it with a 1/8000 shutter would be awesome. for me :)

I knew the 7D2 would be a crop and really figured the way they ran the 18mp sensor forever that they would just do the same thing with the 70D sensor.
That AF system looks amazing but is some serious overkill for the average shooter. It's like they made a camera just for the few people who shoot birds all the time.
The no tilty touch screen was a real bummer but I think its going to be a great camera for a lot of people. Jut doesn't interest me much, mainly because i don't shoot birds at all.

There is always the Rebel line and the 70D for the average shooter. AF with a great spread across the frame and 10fps is useful for much more than birds.


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Sep 24, 2014 20:58 |  #24

canon rookie wrote in post #17175929 (external link)
Ha true but my 6D needs no noise reduction work at all at ISO 6400 and when your shooting 300+ pics a game 4-5 times a week I sure don't have time to smooze a high ISO 7D pic.;)

well don't buy it then :rolleyes:- so just because it doesn't suit your use does'nt mean it wont suit mine use or others - so why bag it if your not interested in it - just stay happy with you 6 D :lol:


C:- 7D Mk11 ; 7Dc ; 600D & SX10 IS / L:- EFS 10-22 f3.5-4.5 USM ; 55-250 f4-5.6 IS 11; 18 -200 f3.5-5.6 IS ; & EF 16- 35 f4 L IS USM , 24-105 f4 L IS USM; 70-200 f4 L IS USM; 100-400 f4.5-5.6 L IS 1 USM (V1 and V11); + C 1.4 Ext Mk3 & Tam 150 - 600 f5-6.3 DI VC USD.

  
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Sep 24, 2014 21:09 |  #25

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17175953 (external link)
From the 7DI to the 1DX/6D, there is a rough 2 1/3 stop gap at high ISOs in raw content. There are 6 cameras occupying this space currently, including the 7D2 due to be out in 2 months. The APS-Cs occupy the first 2/3 stop, the FF occupy the last 2/3 stop, with about a 1 stop gap between the APS-C and FF.

7D - 70D/7D2..... 1 stop ...... 5D3 - 6D - 1DX

The older 5D2 and 1D4 sit right in the middle of that 1 stop gap.

That is my assessment after having worked with raw files from just about all 8 cameras, either personally taking the raw shots myself, or supplied by others. Copy variations will shift one's assessment one way or another a bit, but on average, this is pretty close to what we see. A 1 stop advantage is not very narrow, because that is about the limit of how much noise one can post process out of a file while still leaving respectable amount of detail to work with.

Hmmm I hate to say it team speed but I suspect that may not be a totally accidental outcome by canon to maintain that sort of gap between the higher end full frame cameras and the lower market price crops re iso capability (although the pricing and performance of the 6D and now 7Dmk2 possibly kind of muddy the waters a bit (I do wonder if canon meant the 6D to be better than the 5Dmk3 at high iso or if that was a miscalculation) - if canon bring out a super capable high iso new sensor I doubt if it will be seen in a lower priced camera for quite awhile but it may see the rebirth of the 1D4 crop 1.3 type series and that might be good news for many although probably too exe for me as an amateur hence the 7D mk 2 on pre order can just about justify that one ???
cheer rob


C:- 7D Mk11 ; 7Dc ; 600D & SX10 IS / L:- EFS 10-22 f3.5-4.5 USM ; 55-250 f4-5.6 IS 11; 18 -200 f3.5-5.6 IS ; & EF 16- 35 f4 L IS USM , 24-105 f4 L IS USM; 70-200 f4 L IS USM; 100-400 f4.5-5.6 L IS 1 USM (V1 and V11); + C 1.4 Ext Mk3 & Tam 150 - 600 f5-6.3 DI VC USD.

  
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Sep 24, 2014 21:10 |  #26

I'm going to throw some fuel on the fire here real quick and say that there is no way that there are 2+ stops between the 7D and 5D3. I use them both all the time and there isn't a huge difference. The extra reach makes the 7D a very viable camera for sports.

I've uploaded a 100% crop comparing a 5D3 shot at ISO 6400 to a 7D shot at 3200. No noise reduction applied, both from RAW. Now let's play a game. Which one has less noise? The left one, or the right one?

http://i.imgur.com/egy​cE8e.jpg (external link)




  
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Sep 24, 2014 21:22 |  #27

h4ppydaze wrote in post #17176062 (external link)
I'm going to throw some fuel on the fire here real quick and say that there is no way that there are 2+ stops between the 7D and 5D3. I use them both all the time and there isn't a huge difference. The extra reach makes the 7D a very viable camera for sports.

I've uploaded a 100% crop comparing a 5D3 shot at ISO 6400 to a 7D shot at 3200. No noise reduction applied, both from RAW. Now let's play a game. Which one has less noise? The left one, or the right one?

http://i.imgur.com/egy​cE8e.jpg (external link)

I never said there is a 2+ stop difference. The difference is about 1 2/3. Here is an identical set of shots taken during my 7D 5D3 review. You cannot compare 2 different shots the way you did, different material, different lighting, etc. Try the comparisons in a controlled studio with identical exposures. ;)

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Sep 24, 2014 21:25 |  #28

patrol50 wrote in post #17176061 (external link)
Hmmm I hate to say it team speed but I suspect that may not be a totally accidental outcome by canon to maintain that sort of gap between the higher end full frame cameras and the lower market price crops re iso capability (although the pricing and performance of the 6D and now 7Dmk2 possibly kind of muddy the waters a bit (I do wonder if canon meant the 6D to be better than the 5Dmk3 at high iso or if that was a miscalculation) - if canon bring out a super capable high iso new sensor I doubt if it will be seen in a lower priced camera for quite awhile but it may see the rebirth of the 1D4 crop 1.3 type series and that might be good news for many although probably too exe for me as an amateur hence the 7D mk 2 on pre order can just about justify that one ???
cheer rob

Most of that gap comes out due to the amount of total light a larger sensor absorbs over a crop. Most seem to stand by the guideline that "in same generation bodies, a FF sensor is 1.3 stops better at ISO due to its surface area over an APS-C sensor".


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Sep 24, 2014 21:31 |  #29

Fair enough, you never said 2+ stops, but 1 2/3 is still pushing it. I'd say a stop better in real world use.

The 5D3 at 6400 in your example looks like a stop or more worse than the 7D at 1600. So that confirms my experience - that the difference is about a stop. Not a huge price to pay for the reach, since if you're shooting longer than 400 your only option is an f4 lens, and a 300 gives you just about 500mm of 'reach' on a 7D at about half the weight of a 500L.




  
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Sep 24, 2014 21:36 |  #30

h4ppydaze wrote in post #17176086 (external link)
Fair enough, you never said 2+ stops, but 1 2/3 is still pushing it. I'd say a stop better in real world use.

The 5D3 at 6400 in your example looks like a stop or more worse than the 7D at 1600. So that confirms my experience - that the difference is about a stop. Not a huge price to pay for the reach, since if you're shooting longer than 400 your only option is an f4 lens, and a 300 gives you just about 500mm of 'reach' on a 7D at about half the weight of a 500L.

It is easily over 1 stop better, but not quite 2 stops. The 5DII was just over 1 stop better than the 7D, and the 5DIII was under 1 stop better yet than the 5DII. I don't gauge these lightly, I have taken thousands of comparison shots both in the field (full NBA seasons) and in a controlled environment. There are body variations too, you could have a really good 7D and average or less than average 5DIII.

If the 7D is only 1 stop away from the 5DIII, then it just about equals the 5DII by 1/2 to 2/3, but we have several years of comparisons to know that isn't true. If you want to try to convince people that the 7D is only 1 stop worse than the 5D3, good luck. You will find no more avid a 7D supporter than I, but you aren't going to convince me due to my many years with 5 different 7Ds, and the last year with the 5D3 and 2 of those 5 7Ds. :)


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