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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 24 Sep 2014 (Wednesday) 17:01
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Has the 7D2 spec changed your mind to buy ? ? ?

 
h4ppydaze
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Sep 24, 2014 22:34 |  #31

Admittedly, I don't do lab tests. Just throwing in my two cents on what I've seen in my use.

This RAW comparison on DPreview is more like what I've noticed:
http://www.dpreview.co​m …445728&extraCam​eraCount=0 (external link)

The 7D is set at 6400, the 5D2, 5D3, and 6D are at 12,800. The 6D looks a little better than the 7D. The 5D3 looks worse at 12,800 than the 7D at 6400.

All that said, I use the ISO I need to get my exposure.




  
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ejenner
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Sep 24, 2014 22:34 as a reply to  @ post 17176093 |  #32

Agree with Teamspeed. I'm definitely one to call BS on the massive stop differences sometimes quoted. I've had a t1i and now have 7D, 5DII and 5DIII and tested them extensively. I nearly stupidly upgraded to a t2i from a t1i because of the reviews and posts about the 'new' sensor with less noise. Seriously, the 7D is very, very close to the t1i in IQ. Apart from the MP, the sensors are almost identical.

I was pleasantly surprised when I got the 5DIII that it was actually better than the 5DII (about 1/2 stop which does actually help me for some things) because I was very skeptical with all the 1+ stop differences touted by people with their brand-spanking new 5DIII's when it first came out. (I realize folks get excited and say stuff like 'on the 5DII ISO3200 was acceptable, but with the 5DIII I can go up to 12600 easily adn it looks great' - yea very scientific!)

7D2 looks from the raws to be ~1/2 stop better than the 7D. 7D is not quite 2 stops worse than the 5DIII. I would like a 7D2 and I do use the 7D enough (probably 1/3 - 1/2 the time) for it to be a reasonable thing to do, but for what I do use the 7D for I can't yet convince myself I 'need' the 7DII.

As teamspeed suggests, it's actually pretty hard to really see the real/true difference in one or two 100% crops anyway. I ended up doing multiple tests in different light, subjects etc.. and looking at different areas of the images.


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h4ppydaze
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Sep 24, 2014 22:36 |  #33

Also, the 7D at 6400 prints great at full tabloid size, even cropped. What more could you ask for? Anything better is just sugar on top.




  
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TeamSpeed
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Sep 24, 2014 22:59 |  #34

I often need iso 12800, and the 7d needs pretty aggressive noise cleanup at that iso for poster prints, and you had better nailed your desired exposure too. The 7d2 will get me close to that goal, but I have several 5d3 10000/16000 shots that print large now. My goal is to use the 70-200 II on the 7d2, and the 50-500 for the slower farther away action, between better iso and a slower shutter, the 5d3 and sigma should work well together.


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Mrjeans
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Sep 24, 2014 23:42 |  #35

It's a new toy. ..and I want it !


Canon 5D MK iii &7D,
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35mm 1.4 DG HSM,
70-200 L f/2.8 IS

  
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Mrjeans
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Sep 24, 2014 23:46 |  #36

Back to serious stuff... I own both 7d and 5d3.
7d is excellent for shooting my nephews games...our dog in the back yard...
5d3 is for all the pro work I do.
Pesonally...I never went past 3200 ISO on either bodies.
I still love my 7d and wouldn't go for mk2.


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FEChariot
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Sep 25, 2014 01:54 as a reply to  @ Mrjeans's post |  #37

Even if there is some disagreement over 1/3rd stop here or there, it's nice to see some honest debate over ISO In general with owners of all. We've all heard the, "well my 5D2 is 1.5 stops better than the 7D and the 5D3 is a stop better than the 5D2 and the 6D is a stop better than the 5D3" which quickly lead to the "my 7D is unusable at 1600, but my 6D is crystal clear at 25K" exaggerations.

I volunteered to be the photographer for one of my kid's schools fund raisers in a very dark concert lighting venues and I got some very nice shots with my 7D with 30/1.4, 50/1.4 and 135/2 lenses. Yes it would have been more convenient with a FF body, and a 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8, but it did OK. I can't see myself photographing much harder venues than that.

What I do know is that whatever I decide for an upgrade path from my current kit is going to cost me a crap load of money and I am saving up waiting for the right path for me to light up.


Canon 7D/350D, Σ17-50/2.8 OS, 18-55IS, 24-105/4 L IS, Σ30/1.4 EX, 50/1.8, C50/1.4, 55-250IS, 60/2.8, 70-200/4 L IS, 85/1.8, 100/2.8 IS L, 135/2 L 580EX II, 430EX II * 2, 270EX II.

  
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palad1n
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Sep 25, 2014 03:53 |  #38

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17176093 (external link)
It is easily over 1 stop better, but not quite 2 stops. The 5DII was just over 1 stop better than the 7D, and the 5DIII was under 1 stop better yet than the 5DII. I don't gauge these lightly, I have taken thousands of comparison shots both in the field (full NBA seasons) and in a controlled environment. There are body variations too, you could have a really good 7D and average or less than average 5DIII.

If the 7D is only 1 stop away from the 5DIII, then it just about equals the 5DII by 1/2 to 2/3, but we have several years of comparisons to know that isn't true. If you want to try to convince people that the 7D is only 1 stop worse than the 5D3, good luck. You will find no more avid a 7D supporter than I, but you aren't going to convince me due to my many years with 5 different 7Ds, and the last year with the 5D3 and 2 of those 5 7Ds. :)

don´t worry, nobody is going to question the 5dmkIII´s noise superiority. i don´t think it´s 1 stop either, but this is totally subjective...
but these days, it´s such a small difference, which is really easily erasable in post.
noise is not a problem anymore with new tools and technologies.


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MalVeauX
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Sep 25, 2014 04:12 |  #39

Hrm,

I want it. Sure.

But I won't buy it. At least not for a few years. In the mean time, I'm thinking 1D2 on the cheap.

Very best,


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stevewf1
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Sep 25, 2014 04:34 |  #40

Does anyone realize that in 10 years (or less) all this stuff will be sitting in your closet next to your old Polaroid camera, slide projector and screen, your old Pentium 100 computer with the 500MB hard drive and 3.5" floppy disk drive?


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russbecker
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Sep 25, 2014 04:58 |  #41

In 10 years, or less, we could all be dead. Meanwhile, we have to have something to occupy our time.

So far, the 7D2 looks like it will be a winner. We will get more user data starting in about 2 months.


7D2 | 80D | Fuji X-H1 | 100-400 f/4-5.6 IIL | 300 f/4 L | 70-200 f/2.8 IIL | 135 f/2 L | 85 f/1.8 | 100 f/2 | 60 f/2.8 macro | nifty-fifty | 10-22 f/3.5-4.5 | Tamron 150-600 | Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 | Sigma 30 f/1.4

  
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GeoKras1989
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Sep 25, 2014 06:05 |  #42
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stevewf1 wrote in post #17176492 (external link)
Does anyone realize that in 10 years (or less) all this stuff will be sitting in your closet next to your old Polaroid camera, slide projector and screen, your old Pentium 100 computer with the 500MB hard drive and 3.5" floppy disk drive?

My 6D will take photos just as good as it does today. Of course when I give it to my grandson to use for his high-school photography class, he'll smile politely and throw it in trash after I leave.


WARNING: I often dispense advice in fields I know little about!

  
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TeamSpeed
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Sep 25, 2014 06:30 |  #43

palad1n wrote in post #17176464 (external link)
don´t worry, nobody is going to question the 5dmkIII´s noise superiority. i don´t think it´s 1 stop either, but this is totally subjective...
but these days, it´s such a small difference, which is really easily erasable in post.
noise is not a problem anymore with new tools and technologies.

It's not subjective, there are tools that can measure noise and give ideas on how well one works compared to another. 1 stop is not a small difference, again, given really good NR skills, you can remove 1 stop of noise while maintaining a majority of detail, but you have to use the correct tools and accommodate for the camera you have and its characteristics. Most folks don't have that skill or tools, thus making 1 stop a big deal. 1 stop equates to a 1/500th shutter speed vs 1/1000th, if you are shooting action, for example. 1 stop isn't just about the noise, it is about what else on the exposure triangle you now can adjust.

If you remove noise, you remove detail because even the best of tools or techniques cannot distinguish between pixels that represent detail and pixels that are noise. You keep pushing how your 70D is very, very close to the FF, but it really isn't, not technically. It's good enough for you sure, and that is fine, especially photos on a web forum (which print out to the size of a wallet photo), but actually try to produce large prints for clients, or try to enter a contest where they are sticklers for IQ, it won't cut it in many cases. Of course your answer there is, who looks at photos at that detail to see the noise? Any time you crop a photo then try to print it, or submit to an agency for review, and there you will learn the answer.

Noise is as much an issue as it was before? The only thing that has finally changed to help NR is that Canon seems to have gradually "fixed" the banding and pattern issues with noise. The more random evenly dispersed the noise is, the easier it is to work on. That is why noise isn't quite the issue now as it once was, but the amount of noise is still there lurking in the shadows for some shooters, like landscape shooters or high DR shooters.

Let's just put it this way. The 7D2/70D will be within 1/3 to 1/2 stop of the 5D2 at ISO 6400, and that is a very good thing. Better would be if they were closer to the 1D4, but perhaps the next iteration. :)

Of course what do I know? Maybe I am just lacking in my crop processing and noise reduction. A profound quote from Watto to Qui-Gon comes to mind right about now. :D


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Sep 25, 2014 06:41 as a reply to  @ TeamSpeed's post |  #44

I've got a 70D so I didn't think I would be upgrading, but the AF points being spread so far out in the frame, the dual cards slots and 3 custom modes have sold it to me. I'll keep the 70D though as I don't think the live view on the 7D II will be as good without the touch screen. If the image quality and iso performance equals the 70D I won't be that disappointed.


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TeamSpeed
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Sep 25, 2014 06:52 |  #45

These are the specs that interest me over all the 7Ds I had in the past:
- dual card slots
- 10fps (hopefully unfettered by the metering system, unlike the 7D)
- very large buffer (31 raw)
- 65 AF points across quite a bit of the frame
- Revised AF system and algorithm over the 7D
- AF configuration ala 1D and 5D3
- Exposure compensation for auto ISO in manual
- f8 focusing
- better noise characteristics than the 7D (black spots, sparklies after bringing exposure up, etc)
- body layout very similar to what I shoot now
- better OOC JPG files
- MFA for both ends of a zoom lens

These are the specs that I had hoped for in addition to the list above:
- slightly better ISO than the 70D
- slightly more resolution, like 24mpx for example
- touchscreen/wifi/flip screen (the proverbial "icing" for me)

:)


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