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Thread started 15 Sep 2014 (Monday) 14:16
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7D Mark II vs 5D MIII

 
Geordie ­ Amanda
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Sep 23, 2014 17:20 |  #241

sploo wrote in post #17173820 (external link)
I'm thinking that someone needs to develop a speech website where you can type in words, select an accent, and enjoy ;)

Difficult to know. I'd assume (with little experience in that sport to be certain) that what you're tracking would be mostly moving side-to-side from your shooting position, so maybe the 6D would do the job. The 5D3 is "only" 6fps, so slower than the 7D.

Renting bodies is pricey, granted. There must be 5D3 and 6D shooters in your area somewhere that might be willing to turn up and let you shoot for a while with their body?

Genius idea. Actually Sploo sounds quite funny in Geordie I reckon :D

Flyboarders and Kite surfers are pretty 3 dimensional, so I don't think a monpod would work for me. I'm off to Ainsdale beach tomorrow if anyone in the area wants to turn up and let me try their expensive FF on a windy beach :) I am pretty good with plastic bag covers :D


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Sep 23, 2014 17:26 |  #242

Geordie Amanda wrote in post #17173818 (external link)
Is it a good combination for surfing?

I think so. I am happy with my 5diii and tamy 150-600 for surfing. However, its my first time trying the surf shoots. There is some cropping done for more reach but the lens is sharp enough to do it. When I did soccer, the combo wasnt so great, so I just got the lens back from service and will try soccer again.

Forgot to mention that I had to pump up the shadows. The noon sun is harsh in Los Angeles. So it will be interesting to see how the 7Dii will handle pushing of the shadows. From what I have seen and read, the 7Dii can push shadows to 5 stops and zero banding and the noise is very finely grained.


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5Diii | 50D | 8-15L 4| 16-35L 2.8 II| 24-70L 2.8 II | 70-200L 2.8 IS II |Tamy 150-600 | Σ35Art 1.4 | 40 2.8 | Σ50Art 1.4 | 85L 1.2 II | 100 2.8 Macro | Helios 44-3 58mm f2.0 |Helios 40-1 85mm f1.5 | 1.4x & 2x teleconverters

  
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Geordie ­ Amanda
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Sep 23, 2014 17:42 |  #243

snake0ape wrote in post #17173843 (external link)
I think so. I am happy with my 5diii and tamy 150-600 for surfing. However, its my first time trying the surf shoots. There is some cropping done for more reach but the lens is sharp enough to do it. When I did soccer, the combo wasnt so great, so I just got the lens back from service and will try soccer again.

Forgot to mention that I had to pump up the shadows. The noon sun is harsh in Los Angeles. So it will be interesting to see how the 7Dii will handle pushing of the shadows. From what I have seen and read, the 7Dii can push shadows to 5 stops and zero banding and the noise is very finely grained.

Very nice. I don't think the Irish sea looks quite so splendid on a cold, late, September afternoon though :D


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snake0ape
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Sep 24, 2014 12:09 |  #244

This is what I need to think about when I consider reach with a crop camera over a full frame.

If I pair the Tamron 150-600mm with my 5diii, DXOmark gives this pair a 17P-Mpix sharpness rating. This means I really have a 17megapixel camera when I use this lens.

If I used a 70D camera, DXOmark gives the camera/lens pairing a low 8P-Mpix sharpness rating. This means that I am really using a 8Mpix camera, because that is all the pair can resolve.

So doing the math (17/8) means that my 5Diii has 2.125 times more resolution than the 70D camera. So lets do the reach calculation. The 70D has a 2.56 (1.6 x 1.6) greater pixel density then the 5Diii. So 2.56 / 2.125 = 120%. So this means that the 70D will only give me 20% more resolution compared to enlarging my 5Diii's photos to match the 70D.

Of course this is not real world comparison and the DXO number is a general single factor number. But it is something that makes me ask the question if the reach of the 7dii worth getting. Well at least with this lens and compared to using my 5diii.

I also own the 70-200ii. With this lens and using DXOmark's numbers, I will have a 170% resolution advantage using the 70D over the 5diii. Now for me, that is enough of an "numbers" advantage to justifying getting a crop camera.


5Diii | 50D | 8-15L 4| 16-35L 2.8 II| 24-70L 2.8 II | 70-200L 2.8 IS II |Tamy 150-600 | Σ35Art 1.4 | 40 2.8 | Σ50Art 1.4 | 85L 1.2 II | 100 2.8 Macro | Helios 44-3 58mm f2.0 |Helios 40-1 85mm f1.5 | 1.4x & 2x teleconverters

  
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sploo
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Sep 24, 2014 16:21 |  #245

snake0ape wrote in post #17175215 (external link)
This is what I need to think about when I consider reach with a crop camera over a full frame.

If I pair the Tamron 150-600mm with my 5diii, DXOmark gives this pair a 17P-Mpix sharpness rating. This means I really have a 17megapixel camera when I use this lens.

If I used a 70D camera, DXOmark gives the camera/lens pairing a low 8P-Mpix sharpness rating. This means that I am really using a 8Mpix camera, because that is all the pair can resolve.

So doing the math (17/8) means that my 5Diii has 2.125 times more resolution than the 70D camera. So lets do the reach calculation. The 70D has a 2.56 (1.6 x 1.6) greater pixel density then the 5Diii. So 2.56 / 2.125 = 120%. So this means that the 70D will only give me 20% more resolution compared to enlarging my 5Diii's photos to match the 70D.

Of course this is not real world comparison and the DXO number is a general single factor number. But it is something that makes me ask the question if the reach of the 7dii worth getting. Well at least with this lens and compared to using my 5diii.

I also own the 70-200ii. With this lens and using DXOmark's numbers, I will have a 170% resolution advantage using the 70D over the 5diii. Now for me, that is enough of an "numbers" advantage to justifying getting a crop camera.

Interesting theory, and a good way of thinking about the benefits of a crop body for a given lens.

Would it be easier though to just think of it as the FF body having 1.6^2=2.56 times the area, therefore taking a Canon APS-C sized crop out of the middle gives 2.56x less resolution, therefore 17MP sharpness cropped to APS-C size is 17/2.56=6.64MP.

That gives the same result (8MP/6.64MP = 120%), but might be easier to visualise.

The only note of caution I'd sound is that the 24-70II is rated as 18MP sharpness, but I've seen a number of claims that it outresolves the 5D3 sensor, and shows noticeably better results on a 36MP A7R. But if it "only" gives 18MP sharpness on a 22MP 5D3 then I'm assuming the rating is a bit more complex. For example, the Sigma 35mm F1.4 DG HSM rates as 17MP on the 5D3 (so appears to be lens, not sensor, limited), but then rates as 30MP on the D800E.

I suppose the presence (or not) of an AA filter would skew results; e.g a 20MP sensor with an AA filter may show <20MP of resolution with a good lens, but that same lens may show higher resolution on another sensor without an AA filter.


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pwm2
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Sep 24, 2014 16:41 |  #246

sploo wrote in post #17175651 (external link)
The only note of caution I'd sound is that the 24-70II is rated as 18MP sharpness, but I've seen a number of claims that it outresolves the 5D3 sensor, and shows noticeably better results on a 36MP A7R. But if it "only" gives 18MP sharpness on a 22MP 5D3 then I'm assuming the rating is a bit more complex. For example, the Sigma 35mm F1.4 DG HSM rates as 17MP on the 5D3 (so appears to be lens, not sensor, limited), but then rates as 30MP on the D800E.

I suppose the presence (or not) of an AA filter would skew results; e.g a 20MP sensor with an AA filter may show <20MP of resolution with a good lens, but that same lens may show higher resolution on another sensor without an AA filter.

Look at the 24-70 Mk II with the 70D and you'll notice that it's mighty sharp when used with a sensor with high resolution and weak AA filter. You then get 14MP which multipled with 1.6*1.6 would be 36MP.

I think the best I have seen with a 70D is 18MP which would be 18*1.6*1.6 = 46MP.
The 300/2.8 Mk II gives 17MP with a 70D.

In the end, it's always important to figure out if the lens can take advantage of the extra resolution from a APS-C body. Or from a Sony A7R.

But the AA really matters a lot, as can be seen on the evaluations of the D800 in relation to the D800E.


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sploo
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Sep 24, 2014 16:51 |  #247

pwm2 wrote in post #17175677 (external link)
Look at the 24-70 Mk II with the 70D and you'll notice that it's mighty sharp when used with a sensor with high resolution and weak AA filter. You then get 14MP which multipled with 1.6*1.6 would be 36MP.

I think the best I have seen with a 70D is 18MP which would be 18*1.6*1.6 = 46MP.
The 300/2.8 Mk II gives 17MP with a 70D.

In the end, it's always important to figure out if the lens can take advantage of the extra resolution from a APS-C body. Or from a Sony A7R.

But the AA really matters a lot, as can be seen on the evaluations of the D800 in relation to the D800E.

Good points - and it bodes well for potential high MP bodies from Canon (that the good glass around today could resolve enough detail to make it worthwhile).

It doesn't reflect so well on the Tamron 150-600mm in that it only gets 8MP on a 70D, but then we are talking about a very long lens for a very good price, so it's probably unfair to be too harsh.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Sep 24, 2014 16:59 |  #248

snake0ape wrote in post #17173843 (external link)
... I am happy with my 5diii and tamy 150-600 for surfing.....

I can not explain how much I enjoy that 2nd photo. :cool:


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pwm2
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Sep 24, 2014 17:00 |  #249

sploo wrote in post #17175688 (external link)
Good points - and it bodes well for potential high MP bodies from Canon (that the good glass around today could resolve enough detail to make it worthwhile).

It doesn't reflect so well on the Tamron 150-600mm in that it only gets 8MP on a 70D, but then we are talking about a very long lens for a very good price, so it's probably unfair to be too harsh.

But the important thing here is that while the Tamron is a "reasonably good" lens, it's a damn good lens when taking the price in account.

The 100-400 measures 7MP perceived resolution.
The Tamron manages 8MP. But alas, not at the long end.
http://www.dxomark.com …S-70D---Measurements__895 (external link)
and switch to the "Sharpness" tab.


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Sep 24, 2014 17:11 |  #250

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #17175694 (external link)
I can not explain how much I enjoy that 2nd photo. :cool:

Down boy ;)

pwm2 wrote in post #17175695 (external link)
But the important thing here is that while the Tamron is a "reasonably good" lens, it's a damn good lens when taking the price in account.

The 100-400 measures 7MP perceived resolution.
The Tamron manages 8MP. But alas, not at the long end.
http://www.dxomark.com …S-70D---Measurements__895 (external link)
and switch to the "Sharpness" tab.

Agreed - very good lens for the money.

That sharpness tab does show quite nicely the general perception that it's good to 400mm, decent to 500mm, but suffers a bit after that.


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Sep 24, 2014 17:35 |  #251

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #17175694 (external link)
I can not explain how much I enjoy that 2nd photo. :cool:

x2 lol




  
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Sep 25, 2014 15:14 |  #252

Geordie Amanda wrote in post #17173806 (external link)
How does the Tammy compare on your FF and crop cameras

Here is a 100% crop of the 50D vs a matching enlargement crop photo of the 5Diii. Both are using the Tamron 150-600 @ 600mm f8 iso 200 .3 sec. on tripod. Distance is 10 meters. Guess which one is from the 50D. This is the dead center of the lens.


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5Diii | 50D | 8-15L 4| 16-35L 2.8 II| 24-70L 2.8 II | 70-200L 2.8 IS II |Tamy 150-600 | Σ35Art 1.4 | 40 2.8 | Σ50Art 1.4 | 85L 1.2 II | 100 2.8 Macro | Helios 44-3 58mm f2.0 |Helios 40-1 85mm f1.5 | 1.4x & 2x teleconverters

  
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Sep 25, 2014 16:26 as a reply to  @ snake0ape's post |  #253

^^^^^^
Is the 5D3 the second shot?


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someone0
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Sep 25, 2014 16:34 |  #254

snake0ape wrote in post #17177490 (external link)
Here is a 100% crop of the 50D vs a matching enlargement crop photo of the 5Diii. Both are using the Tamron 150-600 @ 600mm f8 iso 200 .3 sec. on tripod. Distance is 10 meters. Guess which one is from the 50D. This is the dead center of the lens.

Enlargement usually problematic as the setting could make it sharp or not sharp.




  
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Geordie ­ Amanda
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Sep 25, 2014 16:43 |  #255

snake0ape wrote in post #17177490 (external link)
Here is a 100% crop of the 50D vs a matching enlargement crop photo of the 5Diii. Both are using the Tamron 150-600 @ 600mm f8 iso 200 .3 sec. on tripod. Distance is 10 meters. Guess which one is from the 50D. This is the dead center of the lens.

That's great thanks. I prefer the second image :)


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