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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 15 Sep 2014 (Monday) 14:16
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7D Mark II vs 5D MIII

 
FEChariot
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Sep 25, 2014 17:40 |  #256

snake0ape wrote in post #17177490 (external link)
Here is a 100% crop of the 50D vs a matching enlargement crop photo of the 5Diii. Both are using the Tamron 150-600 @ 600mm f8 iso 200 .3 sec. on tripod. Distance is 10 meters. Guess which one is from the 50D. This is the dead center of the lens.

To be clear, both shots from the same position and you cropped the 5D3 image 1.6 times more? So it's a 160% crop from the 5d3?


Canon 7D/350D, Σ17-50/2.8 OS, 18-55IS, 24-105/4 L IS, Σ30/1.4 EX, 50/1.8, C50/1.4, 55-250IS, 60/2.8, 70-200/4 L IS, 85/1.8, 100/2.8 IS L, 135/2 L 580EX II, 430EX II * 2, 270EX II.

  
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snake0ape
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Sep 25, 2014 18:00 |  #257

FEChariot wrote in post #17177731 (external link)
To be clear, both shots from the same position and you cropped the 5D3 image 1.6 times more? So it's a 160% crop from the 5d3?

Same position, magnified live view manual focus, 3 sample shots each.
And it should not be 1.6x because of different pixel density. Its more like 135%. It was done in photoshop by enlarging scale to match.

This is to show that reach on a crop camera doen't necessarily give you the sharper photo as compared to a FF enlargement.

It is also about the sensor's ability to resolve details for each particular lens.

Forgot to mention, yes the second photo is the 5diii enlarged to match the 100% crop of the 50D. I would say that there is not need to use my 50D for additional reach on the Tamron 150-600 at 600.


5Diii | 50D | 8-15L 4| 16-35L 2.8 II| 24-70L 2.8 II | 70-200L 2.8 IS II |Tamy 150-600 | Σ35Art 1.4 | 40 2.8 | Σ50Art 1.4 | 85L 1.2 II | 100 2.8 Macro | Helios 44-3 58mm f2.0 |Helios 40-1 85mm f1.5 | 1.4x & 2x teleconverters

  
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snake0ape
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Sep 25, 2014 18:10 |  #258

someone0 wrote in post #17177640 (external link)
Enlargement usually problematic as the setting could make it sharp or not sharp.

Yes and no. For ultra-scientific publications, you are right. But for this casual comparison, it doen't really matter. The point is that the crop did not give me a 1.6x sharper photo. For your information, I used the "transform" command in Photoshop to about 135%. Also when you enlarge on screen or print an enlargement, its also problematic with sharpness too.


5Diii | 50D | 8-15L 4| 16-35L 2.8 II| 24-70L 2.8 II | 70-200L 2.8 IS II |Tamy 150-600 | Σ35Art 1.4 | 40 2.8 | Σ50Art 1.4 | 85L 1.2 II | 100 2.8 Macro | Helios 44-3 58mm f2.0 |Helios 40-1 85mm f1.5 | 1.4x & 2x teleconverters

  
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snake0ape
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Sep 25, 2014 18:13 |  #259

butterfly2937 wrote in post #17177629 (external link)
^^^^^^
Is the 5D3 the second shot?

Yes


5Diii | 50D | 8-15L 4| 16-35L 2.8 II| 24-70L 2.8 II | 70-200L 2.8 IS II |Tamy 150-600 | Σ35Art 1.4 | 40 2.8 | Σ50Art 1.4 | 85L 1.2 II | 100 2.8 Macro | Helios 44-3 58mm f2.0 |Helios 40-1 85mm f1.5 | 1.4x & 2x teleconverters

  
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sploo
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Sep 25, 2014 18:13 |  #260

snake0ape wrote in post #17177763 (external link)
This is to show that reach on a crop camera doen't necessarily give you the sharper photo as compared to a FF enlargement.

It is also about the sensor's ability to resolve details for each particular lens.

Appreciating that the question was about your specific crop and FF bodies; it is worth considering that the 50D is obviously a much older sensor than the 5D3, so, for example, things might start to swing the other way if the 70D were compared against the 5D2.

It would be interesting if a test site could do this comparison with a variety of crop and FF bodies, to see if there were any general patterns. The 7D has a fairly aggressive AA filter for instance, so may not fare that well.


Camera, some lenses, too little time, too little talent

  
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snake0ape
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Sep 25, 2014 18:20 |  #261

sploo wrote in post #17177788 (external link)
Appreciating that the question was about your specific crop and FF bodies; it is worth considering that the 50D is obviously a much older sensor than the 5D3, so, for example, things might start to swing the other way if the 70D were compared against the 5D2.

It would be interesting if a test site could do this comparison with a variety of crop and FF bodies, to see if there were any general patterns. The 7D has a fairly aggressive AA filter for instance, so may not fare that well.

So far, the dxo rating of the sharpness grading of lens pairing seems to be a good predictor. The 50D sharpness rating is a low 9M-pix which means that the 50D pairing can only resolve as it were a 9mega-pixel camera. The 5Diii rating is 18M-pix (?). The 70D is 11m-pix. So that is an improvement that should make the 70D slightly sharper than the 5Diii with enlargement. But only slightly. For the 7Dii, I have a feeling that this will have alot better rating and the reach will be worthy for this lens.


5Diii | 50D | 8-15L 4| 16-35L 2.8 II| 24-70L 2.8 II | 70-200L 2.8 IS II |Tamy 150-600 | Σ35Art 1.4 | 40 2.8 | Σ50Art 1.4 | 85L 1.2 II | 100 2.8 Macro | Helios 44-3 58mm f2.0 |Helios 40-1 85mm f1.5 | 1.4x & 2x teleconverters

  
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Geordie ­ Amanda
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Sep 25, 2014 19:44 |  #262

If I lived in LA I could pop round and drop my 7D off for a comparison although it might be a bit too far to come just for this experiment :( It would be great to see the test done with a 70D as currently that's the cutting edge crop sensor in Canon's arsenal (7DII excluded until it ships of course)


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FEChariot
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Sep 25, 2014 19:59 |  #263

snake0ape wrote in post #17177763 (external link)
And it should not be 1.6x because of different pixel density. Its more like 135%. It was done in photoshop by enlarging scale to match.

Right I didn't think about MP differences. My gut tells me I need to just get the 5D3, my wallet and finance manager, ie the wife, would slap me into next year.

Side note: I can't wait to see how the two new Siggy 150-600's compare to the Tammy.


Canon 7D/350D, Σ17-50/2.8 OS, 18-55IS, 24-105/4 L IS, Σ30/1.4 EX, 50/1.8, C50/1.4, 55-250IS, 60/2.8, 70-200/4 L IS, 85/1.8, 100/2.8 IS L, 135/2 L 580EX II, 430EX II * 2, 270EX II.

  
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tickerguy
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Sep 25, 2014 22:06 |  #264

snake0ape wrote in post #17175215 (external link)
This is what I need to think about when I consider reach with a crop camera over a full frame.

If I pair the Tamron 150-600mm with my 5diii, DXOmark gives this pair a 17P-Mpix sharpness rating. This means I really have a 17megapixel camera when I use this lens.

If I used a 70D camera, DXOmark gives the camera/lens pairing a low 8P-Mpix sharpness rating. This means that I am really using a 8Mpix camera, because that is all the pair can resolve.

This is VERY real and exactly the right way to look at it.

I own both a 7d and 5d3, AND a 150-600. On the 7d the 150-600 is about the same in terms of usable magnification/resoluti​on (as a pair) as it is on the 5d3.

The 7d/150-600 pair simply doesn't have the actual sharpness to get "all" of the sensor -- by about 50%, in fact. Then you look at the crop factor and they're pretty close.

If you are looking for 1000mm of actual lens "reach" with 18mp of resolution the 7d/150-600 doesn't get there.

It is what it is.


Canon 7D & 5d3, EF-S 15-85, 24-105L, 70-200L f/4 IS, 100mm Macro/L, EF 50 f/1.4 and more

  
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sploo
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Sep 26, 2014 04:24 |  #265

snake0ape wrote in post #17177806 (external link)
So far, the dxo rating of the sharpness grading of lens pairing seems to be a good predictor. The 50D sharpness rating is a low 9M-pix which means that the 50D pairing can only resolve as it were a 9mega-pixel camera. The 5Diii rating is 18M-pix (?). The 70D is 11m-pix. So that is an improvement that should make the 70D slightly sharper than the 5Diii with enlargement. But only slightly. For the 7Dii, I have a feeling that this will have alot better rating and the reach will be worthy for this lens.

Good points - though check out pwm2's post (https://photography-on-the.net …?p=17175695&pos​tcount=249). I think the DXO rating is where the lens is "best" - not necessarily longest.

In this FF vs crop scenario the point is about reach, so I suspect the numbers that matter are the relevant MP sharpness values for FF and crop at 600mm.

It's hard to tell from the graph, but it might be 5-6MP at 600mm f/8 on a 70D and ~12MP for a 5D3. The 50D looks to be around 4MP - which I guess would align with your images showing a cropped 5D3 shot to be slightly better than the 50D.


Camera, some lenses, too little time, too little talent

  
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7D Mark II vs 5D MIII
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