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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 27 Sep 2014 (Saturday) 17:37
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Can you email me that photo?

 
MT ­ Stringer
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Sep 28, 2014 00:47 |  #16

Each and every time my answer was the same...NO!

Giving your work away doesn't pay the bills or help you recover the cost of your equipment, time and labor. These days, everyone is out for the free hand out.

I have had websites, magazines and schools ask for free images of athletes I shot in competition. I did sell some pics once they were told no. Others just moved on to the next sucker.


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Sep 28, 2014 00:57 |  #17

the flying moose wrote in post #17181398 (external link)
You would never head to a local restaurant and ask them to give you dinner for free because "they already had some made" or go to the supermarket and ask for free groceries because they have lots.

This much I agree with.

However these people haven't lobbed into her place of business and demanded a freebie...they were on holiday together.

When I go on holidays I'm out to relax, have fun, take some cool photos and meet awesome new people...not make a buck out of people who are just there trying to do the same thing I am.

But....maybe I'm doing it wrong.... :rolleyes:


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Sep 28, 2014 01:38 |  #18

Do you have an actual chance of selling the "money shots" or is that just a possibility/dream/low percentage bet?

I've been on a similar trip. I took nice lion and landscape pictures. I gave them to the three guys I traveled with just because it seemed like the right thing to do to me.

No one has purchased any of my money shots from my web site.

I think I'm in the same financial position I would have been in if I hadn't given away the "money shots" and I don't care. I'm not sure exactly why so many of us feel that every time we click the shutter a monitory value has been created. YMMV.


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OhLook
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Sep 28, 2014 02:13 |  #19

MT Stringer wrote in post #17181420 (external link)
Giving your work away doesn't pay the bills or help you recover the cost of your equipment, time and labor.

It can even reduce your income. If the OP gives digital copies to her vacation buddies, they might publish them by putting them online and thereby reduce the value of her rights. This is a concern if she hopes to license these photos.


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Box ­ Brownie
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Sep 28, 2014 06:26 |  #20

The OP and the other female dSLR carrying photographer were there to capture the highest grade of imagery they could with a view to monetising (some of) them. How long and by what route they manage to achieve that goal is up to them but to suggest that they should share their better images without recompense is almost an insult to their 'professionalism'.

I come back to the point I made in my post #9 if sharing on a group holiday is good because they are associating so nicely then their non dSLR companions should offer their services for free...............if you are an amateur/semi-pro wanting to monetise your work and casually met someone drinking in the bar who you ended up buddying up with chatting about the football and it came up that you were a photographer and he said "heh, you/your camera take nice pictures can you do my engagement session/company headshots/kid's birthday party....for free...." what would be your response, yes or no or let's make trade. NB close family & closer friends may get special treatment or not as the case may be?

If the travelling companions do not get the idea then as I think as posted by someone else/others it shows little respect for the OP's skill and efforts and further illustrates how little value some folk associate with photography :(


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Old ­ Coot
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Sep 28, 2014 08:04 as a reply to  @ Box Brownie's post |  #21

Email them a thumbnail sized image with a link back to your online gallery where they can purchase full sized images. You have done what they asked by emailing the image to them. It might not be what they had in mind, but it is what they asked for.


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jra
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Sep 28, 2014 08:57 |  #22

I think the bigger issue is to make sure that you draw a distinct line between business and pleasure. If your vacation was also part "business trip", any photos that you took for your business should be kept for your business and not shown as recreational vacation photos to your friends (or as an "advertisement" where you show the photos and then tell them that they can purchase them if they would like.....WAY TACKY). From there, it makes it easy to explain that you were not simply on vacation but a business trip and any photos taken for the business can not be freely shared. Surely anyone could easily understand that. If you choose to show the photos you want to sell to your friends as your "vacation photos", I think it would be completely appropriate to share them (at least lower resolution copies with no/minimal water marks).




  
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Luckless
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Sep 28, 2014 09:32 |  #23

jra wrote in post #17181783 (external link)
I think the bigger issue is to make sure that you draw a distinct line between business and pleasure. If your vacation was also part "business trip", any photos that you took for your business should be kept for your business and not shown as recreational vacation photos to your friends (or as an "advertisement" where you show the photos and then tell them that they can purchase them if they would like.....WAY TACKY). From there, it makes it easy to explain that you were not simply on vacation but a business trip and any photos taken for the business can not be freely shared. Surely anyone could easily understand that. If you choose to show the photos you want to sell to your friends as your "vacation photos", I think it would be completely appropriate to share them (at least lower resolution copies with no/minimal water marks).

Possibly the most logical line of thinking. "I'm a professional photographer, and selling photos is how I make (part) of my income. For me this was a working vacation so I could get out and photograph new and interesting things that I can't back home, but simply giving away the photos completely for free would kind of defeat the purpose of the trip."


How you handle things of course depends on the group and your business model. It may be in your best interest to share a few 'good' photos with them, possibly well branded ones for something where you can place your name/website in a corner that isn't easily cropped from the image that you encourage them to share on social media, and then use it as a vehicle to attempt to drive sales.

The important thing is to paint yourself as being fair and easy to deal with, but not simply giving everything away. Try to happily give one away, plan to possibly 'cave' and give a second as a 'bonus' if they buy a few prints, but aim to sell with the majority of your profit margin intact. People tend to prefer working with people who they happen to also like, and are more willing to hand over money to someone kind and pleasant than they are to someone they see as greedy or unfriendly.


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Sep 28, 2014 09:41 |  #24

The OP never came out and stated that she was a professional photographer or that she had any intention of selling her photos until the other DsLR photographer brought it up. If, as jra said, her intention was part business trip, she should be easily able to explain her position. If not, she's being a bit presumptuous, I think.

Is the OP planning to claim the trip as a business expense on her income tax return?


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cheryltee
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Sep 28, 2014 09:57 |  #25

The question was put in the business section because I sell my photos on occasion, and I value the input of the business people here, many of whom have experienced similar situations.

Birds/wildlife and landscapes are what I am most interested in (and sell) and those are the best photos I have from my trip to South Africa, so I want to show what I captured, and I have spent a lot of time sifting through and editing my photos.

I give away photos from charity and church events, as well as from random group events and parties here and there so I don't think most people would consider me to be "tight" with my images (the travel group doesn't know these details). I simply want to hold on to certain images that I consider to be special and possibly of value. I have gotten some good ideas here about how to handle this situation, and I really appreciate the input. Thank you.


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Snafoo
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Sep 28, 2014 13:02 |  #26

Thanks for clarifying. I hope all turns out well.


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Sep 28, 2014 13:51 |  #27

Reciently I was on a training course for a hobby of mine. At the end of the course the usual group shot was about to be taken. As it happened I had my bag with me so popped out a camera and lens to take a shot (camera propped up an a table with a semi deflated water bottle used to get the right angle). Found myself going into 'pro' mode and re-arranging the group while checking about some related humour for mood.

Almost everybody ask me for a copy of the shot. Out came the pen and pad and a few minutes later a page of email addresses appeared. The next day I was contacted by their magazine editor to see if they could use the image in their next one. Sure says I just pop my name under it please.
They are a non money making sporting body so it made sense to offer them a good shot for their use, seeing as I'm involved in it anyway.

If the OP makes his living from selling shots then sure say 'yes, you can buy a copy printed out in a nice frame (even at a discount)', & I'd say yes to giving them any shots of the group for free anyway. Any reasonable person will be able to respect that.

All working photographers are asked to shoot for free usually by people who will never value your work. My view is they will never be my client, wether I do it or not, but they won't get stuck as there are plenty of people out there who will do it for them for free.

I guess I'm trying to say you have to judge when it's right to give away your work and when you should 'just say no.'


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Sep 28, 2014 14:04 |  #28
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Where is it written as a law that when you are on vacation you cannot make images that you can sell? The shot, just like the decisive moment, presents itself when it happens, not when you plan it. Are we legislating now such things too?


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Snafoo
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Sep 28, 2014 14:29 |  #29

Alveric wrote in post #17182269 (external link)
Where is it written as a law that when you are on vacation you cannot make images that you can sell? The shot, just like the decisive moment, presents itself when it happens, not when you plan it. Are we legislating now such things too?

I don't think anyone said that. What I heard was, "It depends".


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Sep 28, 2014 14:32 |  #30

Clearly this is not a photographer's group and they don't appreciate a photographer's concerns. . Moreover, it doesn't sound like they are in the frame of mind of buying a photo from you. If it were me, I would only show them photos that I'm willing to give away for free. Problem solved.


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