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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 27 Sep 2014 (Saturday) 17:37
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seanlockephotography
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Sep 28, 2014 16:39 |  #31

Odd. These people who you "really like" are not your market for when you "sell my photos on occasion", so you aren't losing any money.

I assume it was "Hey, cool hippo pic, can you send that to me so I can put it in my scrapbook since I didn't get the shot?". This is not a picture of JFK getting shot with the shooter peaking out from a bush - you're not losing any value by letting a pal have a copy. It's a safari animal or whatever. Just because you have a fancy camera doesn't mean you can't be a nice guy and share an image with a friend.

None of them helped you out at any point? Binoculars lent? Bags carried? Shared a power bar?

Are any of them sharing the images they took with their "friends"?




  
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jra
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Sep 28, 2014 18:56 |  #32

cheryltee wrote in post #17181882 (external link)
Birds/wildlife and landscapes are what I am most interested in (and sell) and those are the best photos I have from my trip to South Africa, so I want to show what I captured, and I have spent a lot of time sifting through and editing my photos.

I can understand the desire to share the photos that you want to sell with your vacation friends, that said, I would suggest from refraining in doing that. The reason being, it's my opinion that business images and personal images should be kept separate for many reasons (just like money and bank accounts). When you start mingling your business into your personal, it can get messy as it creates all kinds of "gray area". It's normal (at least in my world) for friends and family to freely share personal recreational photos. It's not normal to do this in a business sense. Whenever I depress my shutter, I know if I'm creating an image for profit (or speculation of profit) or if I'm taking a personal recreational photo. Photos that I take for profit (or speculation of profit) are never shared with family and friends, they are properly marketed for their intended use. Recreational images I create are freely shared with friends and family.....I'll gladly e-mail them or post on social media upon request. When you make this distinction with your images, you'll avoid most (if not all) of these awkward situations.




  
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Alveric
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Sep 28, 2014 19:14 |  #33
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jra wrote in post #17182720 (external link)
I can understand the desire to share the photos that you want to sell with your vacation friends, that said, I would suggest from refraining in doing that. The reason being, it's my opinion that business images and personal images should be kept separate for many reasons (just like money and bank accounts). When you start mingling your business into your personal, it can get messy as it creates all kinds of "gray area". It's normal (at least in my world) for friends and family to freely share personal recreational photos. It's not normal to do this in a business sense. Whenever I depress my shutter, I know if I'm creating an image for profit (or speculation of profit) or if I'm taking a personal recreational photo. Photos that I take for profit (or speculation of profit) are never shared with family and friends, they are properly marketed for their intended use. Recreational images I create are freely shared with friends and family.....I'll gladly e-mail them or post on social media upon request. When you make this distinction with your images, you'll avoid most (if not all) of these awkward situations.

You can't always draw a line like that, nor should you have to. If you want only recreation images, might as well suggest that the OP takes a point-and-shoot like her fellow travelers: that way she will pretty much be unable to record anything saleable, as the files will be JPEGs.

Once more, saleable images present themselves any time, not just when you're in 'business mode', and if you capture them, why can't you sell them? Because others might feel bad or make you feel bad with their comments?


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memoriesoftomorrow
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Sep 28, 2014 19:26 |  #34

Personally I'd just say "No, if you want that pic it is for sale". If any of the people took the umph with me they wouldn't be people I'd be wanting to travel with anyway. If a shot isn't available for free, then its not free. They have precisely ZERO right to it.


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jra
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Sep 28, 2014 20:15 |  #35

Alveric wrote in post #17182747 (external link)
You can't always draw a line like that, nor should you have to. If you want only recreation images, might as well suggest that the OP takes a point-and-shoot like her fellow travelers: that way she will pretty much be unable to record anything saleable, as the files will be JPEGs.

Once more, saleable images present themselves any time, not just when you're in 'business mode', and if you capture them, why can't you sell them? Because others might feel bad or make you feel bad with their comments?

I would somewhat disagree (while agreeing with on other points).....I agree that saleable images can and do present themselves at any moment....and when you capture one, it should be set aside for business use (as a means to create income) and not shared as a recreational photo. Even when a business opportunity presents itself with little to no warning, the vast majority of photographers in business will recognize the opportunity and do their best to capitalize on it......even if it wasn't realized until after the fact while editing on the computer, once that realization is made, that photo should be set aside for business use. Also, I would wholeheartedly agree that bringing along a P&S (or cell phone camera) would be completely appropriate for recreational photos (that's what I often do). If I'm out with friends and I'm asked to take a recreational photo of the group, I'll usually pull out my cell phone or P&S (even when my dSLR is at my side). It gets the job done with a photo that is more than satisfactory (and convenient) for sharing on social media and among friends.....I've never had a complaint.
Just as I carry two debit cards (one personal and one business), when I make a purchase, I almost always know which one to use to keep personal and business separate. When I take a photo, I also almost always know and understand my intent when I depress the shutter....and if I for some reason change my mind after the fact, I adjust accordingly.




  
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memoriesoftomorrow
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Sep 28, 2014 20:31 |  #36

jra wrote in post #17182827 (external link)
I would somewhat disagree (while agreeing with on other points).....I agree that saleable images can and do present themselves at any moment....and when you capture one, it should be set aside for business use (as a means to create income) and not shared as a recreational photo..

Nonsense. A photographer can do whatever they want with THEIR image. They can share it how they want and sell it how they want. If SOMEONE ELSE wants a copy of that photograph the PHOTOGRAPHER has the choice as to how that OTHER PERSON can get hold of it. Apply your same premise to a painting and it just shows how nonsensical the notion is.


Peter

  
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lauderdalems
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Sep 28, 2014 20:44 |  #37

Tell them those other photos are being entered in a photo contest and you will be disqualified if you distribute any of those pictures before the contest is judged. They'll never know. It worked for me.


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njstacker22
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Sep 28, 2014 21:01 |  #38

I completely understand where you are coming from. However, it seems that the few dollars you will make on having the friends buy the photos isn't worth the stress and hassle that it will bring in the future. Give up a few pics and the others that you have... don't even let anyone know that you have them.


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juicedownload
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Sep 28, 2014 21:50 |  #39

I probably wouldn't bother showing any of my good pics. Pretend you suck as a photographer to blend in. One time in high school for a state band saxophone audition with a ton of players we all were ranked and judged with scores ranging from something like 40(terrible) to 500 (superb). Guess who earned the 40? ME! If you don't want the visibility, you can hide behind others.


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Hillbille
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Sep 28, 2014 21:59 as a reply to  @ njstacker22's post |  #40

Sorta reminds me of the doctor at a party... being asked medical advice and hearing ailments throughout the evening.
cheryltee,

So you all went on a vacation together. Was there a mechanic in the group... if so I wonder if he would give your car that much needed tune up and oil change... I mean after all you all went on the same vacation together and your car is parked in the same parking lot together so... and of course the banker would certainly offer you an interest free loan... I mean after all... and the bookkeeper certainly should offer to do everyone's taxes for free... I mean after all you were all on a vacation together and it is what she does for a living so why won't she share? Yes that "share" word always seems to apply to someone else!

LOL!! I just wonder if any of the people that were in the group would even consider exchanging their work for yours or the other lady's? I'll bet they would not and in fact would act as though you were robbing them! LOL!!


Hillbille


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juicedownload
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Sep 28, 2014 22:05 |  #41

I think we should have a national holiday where everyone does free work for 1 day.


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NetJohn
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Sep 28, 2014 22:37 |  #42

juicedownload wrote in post #17183027 (external link)
I think we should have a national holiday where everyone does free work for 1 day.

Remind me to be sick that day.

NJ


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Alveric
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Sep 29, 2014 00:45 |  #43
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Quizzical_Squirrel wrote in post #17182791 (external link)
In her shoes I would have just said yes, to preserve the atmosphere on the trip, and then ignored requests/given reasons later when everyone was back home.

That'd be lying: a most despicable and dishonourable thing to do in any situation and for whatever 'worthy' reason (i.e. preserving the peace/feelings).


'The success of the second-rate is deplorable in itself; but it is more deplorable in that it very often obscures the genuine masterpiece. If the crowd runs after the false, it must neglect the true.' —Arthur Machen
Why 'The Histogram' Sux (external link)

  
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benji25
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Sep 29, 2014 15:37 |  #44

After reading a few comments here it seems I am in the minority (I think) in saying that I would have given it to them without second thought.

Is giving the photo to a handful of people really that big a dent in your bottom line? Giving it to them for personal use shouldn't have any impact on your ability to sell the photo later for commercial or whatever purpose. Especially since it is such a small amount of people that were there to experience it with you. I would like to think if I went on a trip with you guys and got a good shot and you wanted to use it as a background on your computer or something I could care less.

When there is virtually no cost for me to build a bridge I definitely try not to dig the ditch deeper.


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jra
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Sep 30, 2014 01:22 |  #45

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #17182850 (external link)
Nonsense. A photographer can do whatever they want with THEIR image. They can share it how they want and sell it how they want. If SOMEONE ELSE wants a copy of that photograph the PHOTOGRAPHER has the choice as to how that OTHER PERSON can get hold of it. Apply your same premise to a painting and it just shows how nonsensical the notion is.

I completely agree with you but I also feel that business and personal should be kept separate.....and in certain instances (such as in a recreational situations), it's completely tacky to show off your photos and then break out a sales pitch as to how your friends can purchase the images. As an example, if I go to my nieces birthday party and take photos unsolicited, it would be way off base to then show those images to family and friends while throwing them a sales pitch on how they can purchase them. It would be well within my rights to do so.....but just tacky and it would probably garner some negative attitudes towards me.




  
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