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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 30 Sep 2014 (Tuesday) 17:00
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Mini-Review: Initial 7D vs 7D2 Raw Comparison from Imaging Resource

 
tkbslc
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Oct 01, 2014 17:30 |  #61

Charlie wrote in post #17187795 (external link)
If you cant capture it with the old 7D, you havent got a chance with the 7D2.

Wouldn't it be the other way around? If you can't capture it on the 7D, then maybe you have a chance with this 7D2 (since it has faster fps and all cross type AF with loads more points and dual super fast processors)?


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tkbslc
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Oct 01, 2014 17:30 |  #62

Thomas Campbell wrote in post #17187279 (external link)
I'd take the Fujis or the Nikon crop sensors over that any day. It doesn't seem to be any different than Canon was putting out 5-6 years ago.

For high ISO? They don't beat Canon for high ISO. Low ISO shadow noise, sure.


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Oct 01, 2014 17:32 |  #63

AlanU wrote in post #17187142 (external link)
7dmk2 is no longer a consideration for me. Canon...good luck on 7dmk3

Me too, after 5 years waiting that's the best in high ISO they can do?? I'm Sooo close to getting a nikon cropper . I'm partnering with a nikon 3200 shooter and that camera smokes my 7d at high ISO's:cry:


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tkbslc
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Oct 01, 2014 17:34 |  #64

Charlie wrote in post #17188557 (external link)
well on the flip side, if teamspeed is already creating a noise reduction action for the camera, it's because it's got horrible noise to start with :D

Every camera has terrible noise if you crank the ISO high enough. APS-C just starts 1-1.5 stops sooner than FF due to the enlargement factor.


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Jimmer411
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Oct 01, 2014 17:38 |  #65

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17186861 (external link)
The 5D3 will do what I need it while the 7D2 hits the masses and people have their way with it. I can get clean 12800 from it, which is my usual ISO around the house and at the games. Although 12800 like this on the 7D2 would be a very nice thing indeed. :)

QUOTED IMAGE



That is after noise reduction and PP correct?

I am really eager now to see how the 7D II does once it is out in the wild since shots like this make it appear that the 5DIII is miles ahead while the studio comparison at dpreview shows 5Diii 12800 as slightly cleaner (to my eyes) than 6400 on my 50D (which is unusable in my experience) and slightly cleaner than 12800 on the 7D.

I would be happy with 3200 that clean on a body.


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Charlie
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Oct 01, 2014 17:46 |  #66

tkbslc wrote in post #17188673 (external link)
Wouldn't it be the other way around? If you can't capture it on the 7D, then maybe you have a chance with this 7D2 (since it has faster fps and all cross type AF with loads more points and dual super fast processors)?

while 8 to 10 is a 20% difference, 8 is pretty damn substantial.

The 7D's autofocus has always been good, it's not exactly like the 5Dc/2 vs the 5D3, THAT is substantial.

You've got the 70D, which also has very good AF, not as fast FPS or buffer, and sells for half the price. Sure, there's reason for a 7D2, but it's fairly small for the price you're paying.

hell, it's been like 5 years or something wild, canon should be at the 7D mark 3 by now. Seams like a pretty half hearted feature set...... probably enough to entice 7D2 potential owners since nikon doesnt have an answer for it.


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tkbslc
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Oct 01, 2014 17:48 |  #67

canon rookie wrote in post #17188679 (external link)
Me too, after 5 years waiting that's the best in high ISO they can do?? I'm Sooo close to getting a nikon cropper . I'm partnering with a nikon 3200 shooter and that camera smokes my 7d at high ISO's:cry:

You are doing something wrong then, D3200 does not beat the 7D by even a little at high ISO according to any tests I can find.


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Oct 01, 2014 17:51 as a reply to  @ Jimmer411's post |  #68

thanks team speed very interesting info and mate i take me hat off to ya you know your stuff - must admit bit disappointed at the lack of a clear difference or what appears to be any real improvement at iso 800 between the 7dc and the 7d mk 2 - shoot a lot betwen iso 200 and 1600 and was hoping to see some real improvement in that zone over my current 7 d which is actually not too bad in that zone compared to some i have seen

have a mk 2 on pre order but may hang back for awhile now and wait for the price to drop a bit say under $2k as $2200 -2500 is the current price range in aus

do still like the idea of the af at f 8 and the 65 cross points and will probably still buy due to that advantage - 10 fps well thats nice but not critical for me
cheers rob


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tkbslc
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Oct 01, 2014 18:05 |  #69

Charlie wrote in post #17188701 (external link)
hell, it's been like 5 years or something wild, canon should be at the 7D mark 3 by now. Seams like a pretty half hearted feature set...... probably enough to entice 7D2 potential owners since nikon doesnt have an answer for it.

half-hearted?

What would you have liked them to add that they didn't?


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Charlie
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Oct 01, 2014 18:23 |  #70

tkbslc wrote in post #17188733 (external link)
half-hearted?

What would you have liked them to add that they didn't?

a full stop better high iso, spot metering on AF point, wifi, touch screen, articulating screen, better low iso

if they were to wait so long on the release cycle, make it worthwhile, otherwise shorten the release cycles.


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Oct 01, 2014 18:29 |  #71

Jimmer411 wrote in post #17188692 (external link)
That is after noise reduction and PP correct?

I am really eager now to see how the 7D II does once it is out in the wild since shots like this make it appear that the 5DIII is miles ahead while the studio comparison at dpreview shows 5Diii 12800 as slightly cleaner (to my eyes) than 6400 on my 50D (which is unusable in my experience) and slightly cleaner than 12800 on the 7D.

I would be happy with 3200 that clean on a body.

I did do a little PP on it, a little NR, then some smart sharpening, then USM for contrast. It wasn't much though.

Here is a partial crop of the same image with no NR at all (DPP sliders to 0) to show you the unadulterated image. The 5D3 is nearly 2 stops better than the 7D at 12800. It appears that the 7D2 will cut this barrier down by nearly 1/2. :)

http://teamspeed.smugm​ug.com …074457&k=tGksXj​P&lb=1&s=O (external link)


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Oct 01, 2014 18:31 |  #72

Charlie wrote in post #17188557 (external link)
well on the flip side, if teamspeed is already creating a noise reduction action for the camera, it's because it's got horrible noise to start with :D

I have NR actions for the 5D2, 1D4, and the 5D3. In fact I have more actions for the 5D3 than the others. ;)

Mostly because I am trying to make a complete single action that will remove noise, clean up saturation and contrast, and add sharpening. I disklike working on images where I have to mask, layer, etc. I have never done that since the 50D. The 7D, 1D3, and 1D4 prompted this research back in 2009. They were the first bodies I owned to produce files that could actually utilize a single action to clean just about everything up.


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Oct 01, 2014 18:44 |  #73

patrol50 wrote in post #17188709 (external link)
thanks team speed very interesting info and mate i take me hat off to ya you know your stuff - must admit bit disappointed at the lack of a clear difference or what appears to be any real improvement at iso 800 between the 7dc and the 7d mk 2 - shoot a lot betwen iso 200 and 1600 and was hoping to see some real improvement in that zone over my current 7 d which is actually not too bad in that zone compared to some i have seen

have a mk 2 on pre order but may hang back for awhile now and wait for the price to drop a bit say under $2k as $2200 -2500 is the current price range in aus

do still like the idea of the af at f 8 and the 65 cross points and will probably still buy due to that advantage - 10 fps well thats nice but not critical for me
cheers rob

Again, though keep in mind my ISO comparisons were done by changing the factory setting of sharpening from the USM method to the older Sharpen method for the 7D2. The 7D2 does better with the USM method and the 7D does better with the Sharpen method, IMO. If you leave those factory steps alone, the 7D2 is about 2/3 stops ahead. If you use the Sharpen method, it is very nearly equal to the 7D. That is the single largest difference between the two.

Also if you see the one post, when you take the 7D2 and take the NR down, and the sharpening down, no matter which method, the differences are virtually nil. That tells me that the 7D and 7D2 (and 70D) aren't all that different AT ALL if there is no post processing performed during the raw conversion process. There are some interesting software steps being employed on the newer 20.2 resolution data over the older 18mpx algorithms. I wish Canon would update the older models' functions too, but that would then really show the lack of progress on sensor performance. ;)

I would love to see somebody take identical 7D and 70D shots (exposed identically) at ISO 6400, and run them through LR, with NR turned off and sharpening turned off. I expect that the ISO difference will shrink quite a bit. I still really believe there is more software trickery than sensor development going on. And yes, that means on the FF front as well, whether in the firmware in the camera on the raw, or in the raw converters.

That all being said, who really cares... if the end result of hardware or software is that you get cleaner images, that would satisfy 90% of the owners. Some of us just have to know a bit more about what is going on under the covers, or at least think they do (I am referencing myself here, and not targeting anyone else).


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Oct 01, 2014 19:18 |  #74

All I know is this....

used 7Ds are even now selling in the low 500 bucks range. For that price you have to ask yourself this:

1.4X III or 7D?

haha... Cmon' 7D2... I can't wait to get my $500 7D classic ;)


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Oct 01, 2014 19:20 |  #75

Talley wrote in post #17188837 (external link)
All I know is this....

used 7Ds are even now selling in the low 500 bucks range. For that price you have to ask yourself this:

1.4X III or 7D?

haha... Cmon' 7D2... I can't wait to get my $500 7D classic ;)

you'll end up selling your 7Dc, you can bank on that ;)


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Mini-Review: Initial 7D vs 7D2 Raw Comparison from Imaging Resource
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