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Thread started 15 Sep 2014 (Monday) 07:05
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Canon officially announces the 7D Mark II

 
Geordie ­ Amanda
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Oct 06, 2014 13:48 |  #1351

kcbrown wrote in post #17197115 (external link)
If you're going to judge by the images, then it's likely you won't see a difference (that can be attributed to the camera) between shots taken with the 70D and shots taken with the 7D2. At anything but the highest ISOs, you probably won't really be able to see a difference between the 7D2 and the 7D, either.


Once you get to this level, the differences in the camera start to matter for how easy it is to get the shot, rather than how good the shot is. And since the 7D and 70D are already very, very good, the advantages of the 7D2 are likely to be limited, in the general case, to the most demanding of environments.

This means that if you really want to see what the differences are between the cameras, you're going to have to use them yourself, preferably in the most demanding environments you operate in.

I wouldn't be just looking at the IQ of the image, but the actual shot taken. If people start putting up fabulous action shots for instance, then I will be quite excited by the camera's auto focus and tracking etc. I'm hoping noise will be better, but aren't we all. I also use this site to see what can be done by better photographers than myself and to inspire myself to do better. I already have owned a 7D for several years so I know reasonably well what it can do.

So for me the nearest I can get to seeing what the camera is capable of isn't with a technical review, but in seeing what can be created by users on this forum.

I have seen the early images produced by the 7DII and read comments saying "they look great", then read "no they're not! you haven't taken X,Y and Z into account", this is followed up by, "ah, you obviously don't understand exactly what X,Y, and Z represent" ..........and so it goes on. I like to look at pictures, so I guess I will have to wait a little longer :( unless someone wants to lend me their 7DII for a few days :)


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kcbrown
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Oct 06, 2014 14:05 |  #1352

Geordie Amanda wrote in post #17197164 (external link)
I wouldn't be just looking at the IQ of the image, but the actual shot taken. If people start putting up fabulous action shots for instance, then I will be quite excited by the camera's auto focus and tracking etc.

But that they got those shots doesn't tell you how easy the camera made it for them to get those shots.

That's the crux of the problem. You see the shots they got. You don't see the shots they missed.

That is why you really are going to have to experience the camera for yourself.

I'm hoping noise will be better, but aren't we all.

That's already been dealt with. It's very nearly the same as the 70D in that regard.

Canon has never in its history (that I've ever seen, anyway) made a change to the sensor between the preproduction bodies and the production bodies that resulted in substantial improvements to the image quality. If anything, we've seen problems in the production bodies that weren't present in the preproduction ones.

I also use this site to see what can be done by better photographers than myself and to inspire myself to do better. I already have owned a 7D for several years so I know reasonably well what it can do.

So for me the nearest I can get to seeing what the camera is capable of isn't with a technical review, but in seeing what can be created by users on this forum.

That's fair, but I think you'll find that (aside from the inspiration it gives you) you won't get a whole lot of useful information from it. Not unless you see a shot that the 7D2 managed to get that you know the 7D couldn't manage. Frankly, the 7D is so good that I don't know of any shot that it can't get. It's only a matter of how likely it is to get it.


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Oct 06, 2014 14:21 |  #1353

RedRobin wrote in post #17197161 (external link)
....I agree and don't expect that I will be able to look back at my photos a year later and say: This one was taken on my 7D2 and that one on my 70D.

However, I would add that cameras are tactile devices and how a camera feels and balances and how naturally fluid you become with it, is very important. As Ansell Adams said many decades ago:

"The camera takes the photo, but the photographer makes it" < And it's still true today.

The gear is very important however, check out this post, and the pro's video within. He doesn't like to tell people to spend money to get better pictures, but he has to do that in many situations when people talk to him about their issues. I can pretty much guarantee you that a good photographer could take a Rebel T2i with a kit lens and get a few good sports shots, but their keeper rate would be much less than somebody a bit less skilled but with a 7D and a 70-200 f2.8 that takes just as many shots (or more shots due to the burst capabilities). The aesthetics of the few good shots may be better overall, but the # of keepers would be lower.

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1401081


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Thorsten
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Oct 06, 2014 14:36 |  #1354

kcbrown wrote in post #17197115 (external link)
If you're going to judge by the images, then it's likely you won't see a difference (that can be attributed to the camera) between shots taken with the 70D and shots taken with the 7D2. At anything but the highest ISOs, you probably won't really be able to see a difference between the 7D2 and the 7D, either.


Once you get to this level, the differences in the camera start to matter for how easy it is to get the shot, rather than how good the shot is. And since the 7D and 70D are already very, very good, the advantages of the 7D2 are likely to be limited, in the general case, to the most demanding of environments.

This means that if you really want to see what the differences are between the cameras, you're going to have to use them yourself, preferably in the most demanding environments you operate in.

I've tried out the 70D, to get more reach for wildlife, but it just doesn't do it for me. After getting used to the handling of the 5D3, the 70D was quite a step backwards. And that was true even when taking a snapshot in the backyard, never mind "the most demanding environments". I would have happily ordered even a "70DII" that's same as the 70D but packaged in the 5D3/7DII body. The 10fps, better AF and finder etc that I will get now with the 7DII are just icing on the cake. But I expect they will make a difference as well for birds in flight.


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Oct 06, 2014 14:38 |  #1355

Interesting, I didn't see that much of a marked difference in my 7D vs 5D3 mini review. Cropping a 5D3 bird out and resizing it to match the 7D's resolution gave the edge to the 7D or they were a close match, but adding the 1.4x to the 5D3 gave the edge to the 5D, because it didn't need cropped and resized. That was doing snapshots in my backyard as well.


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Geordie ­ Amanda
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Oct 06, 2014 14:45 |  #1356

kcbrown wrote in post #17197196 (external link)
But that they got those shots doesn't tell you how easy the camera made it for them to get those shots.

That's the crux of the problem. You see the shots they got. You don't see the shots they missed.

That is why you really are going to have to experience the camera for yourself.

That's already been dealt with. It's very nearly the same as the 70D in that regard.

Canon has never in its history (that I've ever seen, anyway) made a change to the sensor between the preproduction bodies and the production bodies that resulted in substantial improvements to the image quality. If anything, we've seen problems in the production bodies that weren't present in the preproduction ones.

That's fair, but I think you'll find that (aside from the inspiration it gives you) you won't get a whole lot of useful information from it. Not unless you see a shot that the 7D2 managed to get that you know the 7D couldn't manage. Frankly, the 7D is so good that I don't know of any shot that it can't get. It's only a matter of how likely it is to get it.

I have a good idea of what the 7D can do, but once people start showing bif and sports action shots, I can guarantee that people will ask follow up questions on how the shot was achieved and the ease it took. This gives me useful information.

The noise looks to be around 2/3 s of a stop (over 7D) according to some of the wisdom on here, although as I mentioned there is still some debate on this subject and the assessment of the early published images.

I like the idea of superior tracking ability, even if an extra 25% fps isn't of much benefit for the things I shoot (those racing snails don't have too many action packed moments.....).

I still reckon the first review will come under fire regardless of what's printed. There is always so much disagreement in here on any given review and it's statistics, regardless of the final conclusion. :(

So about somebody loaning me that 7DII ?? :)


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Thorsten
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Oct 06, 2014 14:53 |  #1357

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17197270 (external link)
Interesting, I didn't see that much of a marked difference in my 7D vs 5D3 mini review. Cropping a 5D3 bird out and resizing it to match the 7D's resolution gave the edge to the 7D or they were a close match, but adding the 1.4x to the 5D3 gave the edge to the 5D, because it didn't need cropped and resized. That was doing snapshots in my backyard as well.

You could put the 1.4s on the 7D as well, right? I'm curious if my 400/5.6 will hold up with the 1.4x on a crop sensor, never tried it. It does well with 1.4x on the 5D3. But even without 1.4x, I expect the 7DII will give me more keepers for BIF than the 5D3.


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Oct 06, 2014 15:09 |  #1358

Thorsten wrote in post #17197301 (external link)
You could put the 1.4s on the 7D as well, right? I'm curious if my 400/5.6 will hold up with the 1.4x on a crop sensor, never tried it. It does well with 1.4x on the 5D3. But even without 1.4x, I expect the 7DII will give me more keepers for BIF than the 5D3.

The 1.4x on my 7D with the lens I used was blah... the detail just wouldn't resolve to the dense 18mpx sensor. Plus the combination was f8, and I have to tape pins to get the camera to autofocus reasonably well.

Although I did pull off a decent moon shot with the 2x, 1.4x, and the lens on a 7D manually focused and handheld (equiv 2240mm). That was a doozy...

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Oct 06, 2014 15:20 |  #1359

I used the 1.4x (and 2x) Sigma TCs on my 400/5.6 with my 7D in MF. They worked great, with the exception that there was no AF and the maximum aperture was increased. I now have Canon 1.4x II and 2X III. I'm hoping for better results with the 7D2 and excited that I will get AF with the 1.4 x. I'm also psyched that I will be able to use the 2x with my 500/4 and get AF.


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Oct 06, 2014 15:44 |  #1360

Thorsten wrote in post #17197267 (external link)
I've tried out the 70D, to get more reach for wildlife, but it just doesn't do it for me. After getting used to the handling of the 5D3, the 70D was quite a step backwards. And that was true even when taking a snapshot in the backyard, never mind "the most demanding environments".

Interesting. Would you mind expounding on this a bit? I would expect the main handling difference would be the lack of a joystick. I have to admit, that would put me off as well.

But that's an ergonomic issue, which is a matter of individual preference as well as getting used to it.


Do you have experience with the 7D? If so, how did that fare?


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Oct 06, 2014 15:53 |  #1361

icassell wrote in post #17197362 (external link)
I used the 1.4x (and 2x) Sigma TCs on my 400/5.6 with my 7D in MF. They worked great, with the exception that there was no AF and the maximum aperture was increased. I now have Canon 1.4x II and 2X III. I'm hoping for better results with the 7D2 and excited that I will get AF with the 1.4 x. I'm also psyched that I will be able to use the 2x with my 500/4 and get AF.

Yeah I have the Sigma 1.4 and 2.0 TC's to, they work great with my 300/2.8 but when I tried to MF them with my 100-400 :shock: But that was my fault, I never could master the art of manual focus. That 2x III is going to get you some serious reach with the 500/4..........


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Oct 06, 2014 16:00 |  #1362

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17197339 (external link)
The 1.4x on my 7D with the lens I used was blah... the detail just wouldn't resolve to the dense 18mpx sensor. Plus the combination was f8, and I have to tape pins to get the camera to autofocus reasonably well.

Same here. Quality loss was too important to compensate for the 1.4x magnification, similar result at best, but AF is nearly worthless.

I have been told to try with smaller apertures, though.




  
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Oct 06, 2014 16:15 |  #1363

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17197339 (external link)
The 1.4x on my 7D with the lens I used was blah... the detail just wouldn't resolve to the dense 18mpx sensor. Plus the combination was f8, and I have to tape pins to get the camera to autofocus reasonably well.

Although I did pull off a decent moon shot with the 2x, 1.4x, and the lens on a 7D manually focused and handheld (equiv 2240mm). That was a doozy...
QUOTED IMAGE

Great shot! Well I will try the 7DII with my lenses and 1.4x soon enough...

icassell wrote in post #17197362 (external link)
I used the 1.4x (and 2x) Sigma TCs on my 400/5.6 with my 7D in MF. They worked great, with the exception that there was no AF and the maximum aperture was increased. I now have Canon 1.4x II and 2X III. I'm hoping for better results with the 7D2 and excited that I will get AF with the 1.4 x. I'm also psyched that I will be able to use the 2x with my 500/4 and get AF.

Thanks for the info, sounds good! Same here, I'm thrilled it will focus at f/8. A 500/4 was my wildlife lens in my Nikon days, but I downsized to the 400/5.6 which is more enjoyable to use (especially when combining it with a family trip). I think the 7DII will be just the ticket for that.


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Oct 06, 2014 16:20 |  #1364

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17197339 (external link)
The 1.4x on my 7D with the lens I used was blah... the detail just wouldn't resolve to the dense 18mpx sensor. Plus the combination was f8, and I have to tape pins to get the camera to autofocus reasonably well.

Although I did pull off a decent moon shot with the 2x, 1.4x, and the lens on a 7D manually focused and handheld (equiv 2240mm). That was a doozy...
QUOTED IMAGE

Which lens did you use beccause that makes a big difference. Was it one of the Canon big whites like the 500mm or 600mm?


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Thorsten
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Oct 06, 2014 16:20 |  #1365

kcbrown wrote in post #17197421 (external link)
Interesting. Would you mind expounding on this a bit? I would expect the main handling difference would be the lack of a joystick. I have to admit, that would put me off as well.

Yes, it was the ergonomics. Mushy buttons, no joystick, smaller wheel on the back, mushy D-pad in the middle of that, etc.

kcbrown wrote in post #17197421 (external link)
But that's an ergonomic issue, which is a matter of individual preference as well as getting used to it.

I think most people would agree though that the 5D3 handles better than the 6D or 70D.

kcbrown wrote in post #17197421 (external link)
Do you have experience with the 7D? If so, how did that fare?

No, that body was before my Canon time. I've looked at it, and tried out the 70D. Between these, and my 5D3, none of them felt really optimal for wildlife, so I'm glad the 7DII came out.


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