Canon 7dM2 or 1DM4

For me, minus the money issue, this decision is about "reach". If you need "reach", the 7DII is your camera. If not, and the $ difference is no issue, then maybe 1DIV, although we don't know yet about IQ difference. Reach is everything for me, I have a 7DII on pre-order, replacing a 50D. The FPS and the IDx focus are a bonus. YMMV.

I will more than likely never buy either, but if I did, I'd probably go for the 7DII. Couple of reasons. 1.6 crop vs 1.3. Lets face it, you're buying it (crop) mainly for the reach.
And the AF. If the reviews & specs are to be believed, the new 7DII should have better/faster tracking than the 1DIV. Not knocking the 1D in any way, shape or form, but that seems to be what things are pointing towards. And that's the main reason I would look at either camera. Fast accurate AF tracking for action photography.

speedync wrote in post #17206205
And the AF. If the reviews & specs are to be believed, the new 7DII should have better/faster tracking than the 1DIV. Not knocking the 1D in any way, shape or form, but that seems to be what things are pointing towards. And that's the main reason I would look at either camera. Fast accurate AF tracking for action photography.

I'm probably one of the least person qualify to say this, since I don't shoot sport or wildlife very often. But to me, there is a different between the two. For sport tracking is important, and that 7D2 is probably hugh asset for the price. But on the other hand, for wildlife, initial AF is probably just as important as tracking. Then 1DX probably better overall, then may even be 1D4 and then 7D2.

someone0 wrote in post #17206186
I "saw" it that way also, but there is a big asterisk attach to that statement. It only goes so far. If you shoot mostly telephoto, then it suddenly become negative. Also, for people like me that always carry 2 bodies this point is kinda mute.

The asterisk applies if discussing cropping. Specifically cropping the 1.3x vs native un-cropped on a 1.6x, the "pixels on target" concept often discussed when comparing FF to 1.6x and telephoto use/most 'reach'. If going for most 'reach' and comparing a cropped larger sensor's image vs a native un-croped smaller sensor's image, then yes. But the viewfinder size will always be the viewfinder size regardless of lens used, and larger sensors are inherently better at low light. The birders, and long lens, need the most reach users will benefit more from using the 20mp 1.6x, true.

reckon definitely the 1 d 1V for its almost certain better iso handling and IQ in low light and hence better tv options and it has a really good af system as well as being a crop so its got all the big ones needed for wildlife - if it was still available new it would be hard not to get it - big shame on canon for discontinuing it and the 1.3 crop sensor line and that I will never quite understand

One thing to consider is that the 7D2 has a shutter lag of 55ms, the same as the top end of the 1DIV and the 7D2 has a working range of EV -3 and the 1DIV only has EV -1.

The AF system on paper looks better than the 1DIV. However I do suspect that it will produce the same arguments as the 7D vs 1D3 did, and when I owned both I felt the 1D3 was a better camera.

I still hold out hope for the 7D2 because I believe it'll be a beezer

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17205202
Too soon to tell, we should know more in about a month or so.

.......

One thing is undoubtedly certain, I expect that the 7D2 will eat into the used prices of the 1D4 by around January or so. I expect to see the 1D4s finally start to hit the $2000 price point.

Please Sir, pleeeeaseee ...

Maxdave

The 7d ii is not available, but every one knows this one will beat the 1d iv.
All is based off some reviews where all is test in the best environments you could wish.
Same was with the 7D c in the early reviews. Little noise ,super fast etc.
After all we all know better.
Some think it will be equal to the 1D x.
Dream on guys.

Weja

Nobody has ever said the 7D2 will beat the 1D4 or 1DX in IQ, that is certain. AF will be very, very close however. The tests were not in the best environment, they were in real world conditions (live football games), for example. It doesn't get much more rough and tumble than sports like soccer and football and volleyball.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17206733
Nobody has ever said the 7D2 will beat the 1D4 or 1DX in IQ, that is certain. AF will be very, very close however. The tests were not in the best environment, they were in real world conditions (live football games), for example. It doesn't get much more rough and tumble than sports like soccer and football and volleyball.

But there IS a difference is daytime and night football. I really wanted to see something in the action world in lower light. We know the performance of the 1D4 there, it is just speculation so far on the 7D2.

It is STILL making this a very had choice for me in which way to go.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17206195
1D4s go for $2400-2800 right now, and in a few months I wouldn't be surprised to see this at $2000, as many 1D owners get a 7D2 as a backup, and the market for the 1D4 slowly dries up.

I concur, the 1D4 price was artificially held high by the exorbitant price of it;'s "successor"..
We've already seen the impact on used prices of a number of bodies do to the announcement of the 7D2.. let alone it's impending release.

Paulstw wrote in post #17206684
...

The AF system on paper looks better than the 1DIV. However I do suspect that it will produce the same arguments as the 7D vs 1D3 did, and when I owned both I felt the 1D3 was a better camera. ..

Agreed with that, however I don;t think this is the same situation at all.
7D AF system was the best Canon had ever put in an affordable APS-c body, it was ever going to be superior to the 1D3.

This time around the AF system is very much on paper better than any prior 1D body, leaving it possibly even equal to our better than the 1Dx, let alone a many years old design based on a 1998 AF system. (1D4 = direct descendant of EOS3)

Not making any claims of predictions, just allowing that the field is wide open and the aspirations of this 7D2 is far beyond what it's first version was.

UTgws wrote in post #17207054
But there IS a difference is daytime and night football. I really wanted to see something in the action world in lower light. We know the performance of the 1D4 there, it is just speculation so far on the 7D2.

It is STILL making this a very had choice for me in which way to go.

Interestingly, (again on paper) the 7D2 will mop the floor with the 1D4 for autofocus in low light...
We shall see!

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #17207485
Interestingly, (again on paper) the 7D2 will mop the floor with the 1D4 for autofocus in low light...
We shall see!

Right, on paper, and I do suspect in actuality it might too.

I spent another night on a fairly well lit field for high school ball last night with the 7D struggling with focus and frame rate. Of course the home team wears all black too and that sure didn't help any at all.

The 7D frame rate is a known issue. I never had issues with low light sports AF though. I did 3 years of marching band which is in the same light as night football, and a couple football games too. The 1D4 actually had known issues with low light AF, my own personal copy had to be worked on by Canon to try to make it better.