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Thread started 14 Oct 2014 (Tuesday) 18:31
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How would you define "artistic glamour"?

 
Ledrak
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Oct 14, 2014 18:31 |  #1

I've decided that I want to be more general in the description of services section I use for my contracts. I wanted to use the term "artistic glamour" to describe the type of shoots I do. I just want to be sure that a model doesn't try come back and claim that artistic glamour is something very different from what I contracted them to do.

So my question is... How would you define/describe artistic glamour? Feel free to post up an image that you feel best demonstrates artistic glamour as that would also be of assistance.




  
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Christopher ­ Steven ­ b
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Oct 14, 2014 18:36 |  #2

I can't help with the definition, but I'm curious about why you feel the need to define your style in your contract. Perhaps that is totally standard, but I'd be hesitant about attempting to pin down anything that subjective in a contract. Doesn't your portfolio speak as to what you do, what your style is ?



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Ledrak
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Oct 14, 2014 19:17 |  #3

Christopher Steven b wrote in post #17213113 (external link)
I can't help with the definition, but I'm curious about why you feel the need to define your style in your contract. Perhaps that is totally standard, but I'd be hesitant about attempting to pin down anything that subjective in a contract. Doesn't your portfolio speak as to what you do, what your style is ?

It does. And perhaps I don't even need to include a description at all. But after dealing with so many flaky models I just got paranoid with my contracts to protect myself. With no description at all, a model could potentially show up and say "hey, I didn't agree to do pics like this" walk off the set and costs everyone money. I figure if I at least put a general description in there, then I have a lot more security.




  
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dodgyexposure
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Oct 14, 2014 19:32 |  #4

If you know what the threshold points for potential models are likely to be, then use those as the basis for the description, to avoid any ambiguity on set. For example, something like "Model is required for an artistic glamour shoot. Model will not be required to pose nude, but may be required to wear non see-through lingerie."


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gonzogolf
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Oct 14, 2014 20:11 |  #5

Artistic glamor contains two words so loosely defined as to be meaningless when combined. As mentioned above be specific and concrete in your terms and definitions. Avoid weasel words like artistic or tastefull, Terry Richardson probably calls his stuff artistic glamor.




  
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memoriesoftomorrow
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Oct 14, 2014 20:14 |  #6

"Artistic glamor" is a meaningless and completely subjective phrase. Adding words that are ambiguous into a contract is the exact opposite to what you are trying to achieve.


Peter

  
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Ledrak
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Oct 14, 2014 20:46 as a reply to  @ memoriesoftomorrow's post |  #7

Well perhaps it's better if I don't change anything and keep being specific then. I was just trying to make it so I'd have less wording to write in on each contract, but sounds like that may be a bad idea after all.




  
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Dan ­ Marchant
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Oct 15, 2014 01:03 |  #8

Ledrak wrote in post #17213175 (external link)
It does. And perhaps I don't even need to include a description at all. But after dealing with so many flaky models I just got paranoid with my contracts to protect myself. With no description at all, a model could potentially show up and say "hey, I didn't agree to do pics like this" walk off the set and costs everyone money.

Why would you let a model walk on to the set if you had not already discussed what you were going to shoot, shown examples from your portfolio and got her agreement? This is a planning issue not a contract issue.

Putting a description as an actual clause in your contract limits you to doing just that. If you want to be able to hold a model to account if they refuse to shoot you would be better off simply having a clause that "the style and content of the images will be as previously agreed by the parties via email - see schedule A" and then just attach a copy of your email discussions with the model to the contract as schedule A. That way you have a standard contract that is infinitely adaptable by just including a specific schedule A for each shoot.


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the ­ flying ­ moose
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Oct 15, 2014 01:49 |  #9

Dan Marchant wrote in post #17213583 (external link)
Why would you let a model walk on to the set if you had not already discussed what you were going to shoot, shown examples from your portfolio and got her agreement? This is a planning issue not a contract issue.

Putting a description as an actual clause in your contract limits you to doing just that. If you want to be able to hold a model to account if they refuse to shoot you would be better off simply having a clause that "the style and content of the images will be as previously agreed by the parties via email - see schedule A" and then just attach a copy of your email discussions with the model to the contract as schedule A. That way you have a standard contract that is infinitely adaptable by just including a specific schedule A for each shoot.

Excellent post and I agree completely. It should be hashed out before the shoot what you will be shooting and all the particulars such as wardrobe and locations.




  
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Ledrak
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Oct 15, 2014 11:11 |  #10

Dan Marchant wrote in post #17213583 (external link)
Why would you let a model walk on to the set if you had not already discussed what you were going to shoot, shown examples from your portfolio and got her agreement? This is a planning issue not a contract issue.

All of that takes place, but it still doesn't mean a model can't change their mind at the last minute and decide that they'd rather do the shoot differently than what was discussed and agreed on before hand. And without anything written in the contract I could potentially be at a loss.

Unfortunately, attaching email conversations to the contract is not a viable option for me. I suppose I could add something to the effect of "model acknowledges that he/she has reviewed photographer's portfolio and understands the style of shoot that will be produced, and hereby agrees to take such images." Of course that still leaves a bit of ambiguity, but looking at the contract as a whole it may be enough for me to be comfortable with.




  
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Littlejon ­ Dsgn
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Oct 15, 2014 11:49 |  #11

If you have models that are going to pull that kind of crap, you need new models.




  
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Ledrak
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Oct 15, 2014 16:12 as a reply to  @ Littlejon Dsgn's post |  #12

You'd be surprised at the bs I've gone through with some models. You shoot enough of them and you're bound to run into an issue at some point. The seasoned pros tend to be very reliable IME, but with amateurs and part timers some times you just never know.




  
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Littlejon ­ Dsgn
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Oct 15, 2014 16:19 |  #13

Ledrak wrote in post #17214783 (external link)
You'd be surprised at the bs I've gone through with some models. You shoot enough of them and you're bound to run into an issue at some point. The seasoned pros tend to be very reliable IME, but with amateurs and part timers some times you just never know.

I understand this very much, I tend to find if they show up then they know what to expect. What I deal with is lots of no shows with new models.




  
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gonzogolf
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Oct 15, 2014 16:28 |  #14

Ledrak wrote in post #17214783 (external link)
You'd be surprised at the bs I've gone through with some models. You shoot enough of them and you're bound to run into an issue at some point. The seasoned pros tend to be very reliable IME, but with amateurs and part timers some times you just never know.

But do you think that a contract will cut down on model drama? All it would do is protect you from paying them if they reneg.




  
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OhLook
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Oct 15, 2014 16:34 |  #15

gonzogolf wrote in post #17214806 (external link)
But do you think that a contract will cut down on model drama?

In general, having a contract in place sends a message that the enterprise is to be taken seriously.


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How would you define "artistic glamour"?
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